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Topic: If Bitcoin had a Billion Max supply instead of 21 million.... (Read 552 times)

hero member
Activity: 2506
Merit: 645
Eloncoin.org - Mars, here we come!
then institutions will buy a large amount of them and many government will be buried in mining. We ordinary can get some, too coz the price will decline. But will Satoshi allow this?

If bitcoin had more supply or unlimited supply, then it will not be worth as it is now. You have seen coins like dogecoin which have so much supply and their price is always down.
The only reason why everyone wants to invest in bitcoin is that it is fixed in quantity and therefore its price increases with demand.
sr. member
Activity: 2352
Merit: 245
All I can say is thankfully bitcoin has a capped supply. Most of the coins with close to infinite supply are trash. Bitcoin is scarce & that’s one of the main things that makes it so valuable.
Most altcoins have no internal division into smaller price particles. Based on the fact that each bitcoin has one hundred million satoshis, we can say that in fact, bitcoin has much more small particles for trading than other cryptocurrencies. Other cryptocurrencies can also pack their usual one hundred million price particles into larger names, and then it turns out that there will be much less of them than bitcoins.
Interesting thoughts, isn't it?
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4801
At this point in time the effect of the supply cap is currently unknown because we have not yet experienced it. We will know what effect the 21 million cap has on price only once all bitcoins have become mined and accounted for.

Why would it make any difference?

Once bitcoin is well established(is this now?), current supply would determine value much more than future potential maximum supply. The artificial cap could have improved short term growth by creating the deflationary narrative but long term growth would require supply growth or some other incentive for new adopters to consider joining once the coin is no longer mine-able.

I can't make any sense of what you are trying to say here.

New adopters when the block subsidy ends (150 years from now?) can acquire bitcoins the same way as anyone does today.  They can purchase it at exchanges, they can earn it in exchange for products or services, they can earn it from the transaction fees through block confirmation, they can steal it. A limit (or lack thereof) on the total bitcoins created has no effect on any of this.

The most elegant solution is no cap but a defined supply increase with the limit approaching zero and letting the cap naturally be set to the capacity we have to apply our technology to mining as difficulty increases. The price would continue to go up because the coin would still become increasingly rare over time and the network would still continue to grow in a similar fashion to what we have seen over a much longer period.

If you like that solution, you are welcome to use any of the thousands of inflate-a-coin altcoins that people have created because they believed as you do.  How are those coins doing relative to Bitcoin by the way?
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 2
At this point in time the effect of the supply cap is currently unknown because we have not yet experienced it. We will know what effect the 21 million cap has on price only once all bitcoins have become mined and accounted for.



Once bitcoin is well established(is this now?), current supply would determine value much more than future potential maximum supply. The artificial cap could have improved short term growth by creating the deflationary narrative but long term growth would require supply growth or some other incentive for new adopters to consider joining once the coin is no longer mine-able. The most elegant solution is no cap but a defined supply increase with the limit approaching zero and letting the cap naturally be set to the capacity we have to apply our technology to mining as difficulty increases. The price would continue to go up because the coin would still become increasingly rare over time and the network would still continue to grow in a similar fashion to what we have seen over a much longer period.
sr. member
Activity: 616
Merit: 253
I don't really understand how your math works , but you're probably thinking in the right direction.
sr. member
Activity: 1056
Merit: 270
Okay anyone good with maths here can answer this?

What if Bitcoin had a Billion Max supply yet instead of 8 decimal places to lowest 0.00000001 it has 6 decimal places that is 0.000001?

Why 8 decimal places? Is it because in computing we move in even number bits, like 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit, 64-bit or whatever and there cant be a 6-bit/decimal place?
hero member
Activity: 2814
Merit: 734
Bitcoin is GOD
2) Should it be considered in the future to increase the decimal points to the right? Effectively 10x all the satoshi in existence (the equivalent of 1 decimal point increase)
  This is not really an increase in supply as all balances AND past transactions would see that increase. What it would do is add precision to allow for even smaller transfers of value and maybe more granularity in fees
I do not think that is ever going to be necessary, even if at some point we got an equivalence of one dollar for one satoshi it is very likely that at that time the dollar would have gone through hyperinflation which means the dollar will not buy anything and the satoshi will still be small enough and will allow enough granularity to our transactions.

However if it is ever needed the developers will add it as if they can pull off something like the lightning network then adding just a few decimals to the right should be something incredibly easy for them.
legendary
Activity: 3346
Merit: 1352
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
This obsession with the unit price makes me wonder sometimes.

bitcoin has 100 million satoshis each. In fact, at the protocol level there are only satoshis. The bitcoin software does not care about whole bitcoins. It only cares about satoshis.

The bitcoin "unit" is actually just a convention!

Still, there are valid questions to be asked

1) Would it have been different (for better or worse) if the decimal point was chosen to be further to the right? Really even now it's little more that changing what the client shows as "one" bitcoin.
  Back when the price of one unit was just cents this would have been a moot point. Now I'm not so sure. Unit bias is a real thing.

2) Should it be considered in the future to increase the decimal points to the right? Effectively 10x all the satoshi in existence (the equivalent of 1 decimal point increase)
  This is not really an increase in supply as all balances AND past transactions would see that increase. What it would do is add precision to allow for even smaller transfers of value and maybe more granularity in fees

This is something that needs to be considered seriously. I would say that since the current Bitcoin price is around $31,000 and in future BTC is expected to test six-digits, the decimal point needs to be moved by six places to the right. That would mean that all the existing and yet-to-be mined Bitcoins getting subdivided by 100,000. So 1 BTC in existence becomes 100,000 BTC. This will being the unit price down to manageable levels. For the software, it makes no difference. Earlier 1 BTC was equal to 100 million Satoshi. And now 1 BTC will equal 1000 Satoshi.
full member
Activity: 1638
Merit: 122
Limited supply makes Bitcoin more demandable and more valuable, If it has unlimited supply People were afraid to invest in it, People were not keen to invest in it, they thought Supply is more than demand so investing in it will not be profitable. You can look at XRP as an example, They have increased their circulating supply, their supply has increased more than the demand, now they are is in crisis with their existence.
if btc had a billion supply not unlimited . unlimited is crazier than a billion supply and i do not know if there will still be investors if the coin has an unlimited supply .
coins that have a billions supply surprisingly have a nice number  of investors  . xrp is not decentralize thats why they can increase their supply  .
others are not contented with the supply that btc have and they think they are small , they wish that it can be increased too but we cant agree with that .
member
Activity: 113
Merit: 32
So essentially 5 50 times more Bitcoin, off the cuff response - it would still be limited supply!
The same reward structure would remain I guess so it would take
longer to mine 1,000,000,000.

What is appealing to investors at the moment is the fact that Bitcoin is a deflationary
asset compared to FIAT which is inflationary, Gold is the closest to Bitcoin but still is
or isnt limited [thats a different discussion] and is controlled.

If Satoshi had set the limit at 1Billion I dont think it would make a difference to the
way we think or the appeal of Bitcoin,

On the other hand if there was a consensus to change the limit from 21Million to 1Billion,
Well thats a different matter.

I think this will not gonna happen. If bitcoin become infinite, then it loses its scarcity.
jr. member
Activity: 68
Merit: 5
then institutions will buy a large amount of them and many government will be buried in mining. We ordinary can get some, too coz the price will decline. But will Satoshi allow this?
sr. member
Activity: 1918
Merit: 370
Then it wouldn't be as scarce as it is now. The good thing about cryptocurrencies is that supply does not automatically affect the demand, so we can still expect or ses a value at least as high as what we have right now, but mining and other bitcoin fauceting methods will not be as hard or unprofitable as they are right now.
full member
Activity: 1414
Merit: 129
The first decentralized crypto betting platform
Limited supply makes Bitcoin more demandable and more valuable, If it has unlimited supply People were afraid to invest in it, People were not keen to invest in it, they thought Supply is more than demand so investing in it will not be profitable. You can look at XRP as an example, They have increased their circulating supply, their supply has increased more than the demand, now they are is in crisis with their existence.
legendary
Activity: 1624
Merit: 1200
Gamble responsibly
Nothing would change, everything would be the same as it is now, it'd just be a lot longer timeframe until all were mined. And why are you pondering such things OP, you wouldn't want there to be a billion ;P
There will be many chances, the price will be low but the gain will be the same. It can happen in another way because if the supply is too much and the price is low, when the rise was rising, it may not attack peoples attention, it can also be in a way that price may not like bitcoin and go for the better ones. The 21 million supply is perfect for bitcoin, it is one of the goal-driven achievements that has led to demand for bitcoin to be increasing. I get your point because if the supply increase, the price can reduce but it all depends on the adoption, if adopted like now, the gain will be like now too but only the price will not be like now but reduced.
legendary
Activity: 2165
Merit: 1002
This obsession with the unit price makes me wonder sometimes.

bitcoin has 100 million satoshis each. In fact, at the protocol level there are only satoshis. The bitcoin software does not care about whole bitcoins. It only cares about satoshis.

The bitcoin "unit" is actually just a convention!

Still, there are valid questions to be asked

1) Would it have been different (for better or worse) if the decimal point was chosen to be further to the right? Really even now it's little more that changing what the client shows as "one" bitcoin.
  Back when the price of one unit was just cents this would have been a moot point. Now I'm not so sure. Unit bias is a real thing.

2) Should it be considered in the future to increase the decimal points to the right? Effectively 10x all the satoshi in existence (the equivalent of 1 decimal point increase)
  This is not really an increase in supply as all balances AND past transactions would see that increase. What it would do is add precision to allow for even smaller transfers of value and maybe more granularity in fees
copper member
Activity: 13
Merit: 2
Nothing would change, everything would be the same as it is now, it'd just be a lot longer timeframe until all were mined. And why are you pondering such things OP, you wouldn't want there to be a billion ;P
hero member
Activity: 2814
Merit: 734
Bitcoin is GOD
Then how much you think the price of 1 btc be today? Is it just doing some simple math to work out the price or is it more to it?

If 1/8th of the world population had 1 btc each then what you guys think the price will be?

There's a 1000 million in 1 billion.
At least to me the size of the supply is irrelevant what matters is if the supply is limited or not, if it is then bitcoin will just have the same demand and you will have to divide its market cap and the number of coins to get its price.

However that is unnecessary for a long time I have thought that it is probably a better idea to display the value of bitcoin in terms of mBTC as a price of 32 dollars per mBTC is more relatable for people than a price of 32k for one bitcoin and if you think of bitcoin that way then we will have a supply of 21 billions mBTC.
full member
Activity: 2184
Merit: 100
SOL.BIOKRIPT.COM
If its like that we can not predict the even lumsum value of Btc but it should not be the same as current value of bitcoin. The high value of Btc is just because of limited supply if the supply is in billions then value of Btc would be very less than our expectations.
copper member
Activity: 2968
Merit: 575
www.Crypto.Games: Multiple coins, multiple games
I doubt "doing some simple" math is going to help you find out the true value of the coins. The value of the coins doesn't depend on "numbers" only. Maybe if the max supply was a billion, people probably wouldn't have faith in bitcoin and the price might be much lower than expected. Or maybe the price might be much higher than today. More supply, more people owning bitcoin, more scattering of the coins, more trading and I guess with this, comes more stability?
Curious, what's the use of discussing about something that will never happen?
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
The main number 1 reason causing demand for Bitcoin is scarcity.

wrong.
the number 1 reason for bitcoin demand is its utility and features. people who buy bitcoin (apart from those who are with us for a short amount of time) are buying it because it is a decentralized currency that doesn't need the corrupt banks.
then the fact that it has a limited supply is like a bonus to them.

Number 1 reason for Ethereum demand is usage and utility.

wrong.
the number 1 reason for ethereum price is its hype and the fact that there are a large number of scammers who keep creating tokens and an even larger number of newbies who want to gamble and buy those tokens. that is the only utility that ethereum offers! otherwise it is useless in real world.
the day this hype stops ethereum price drops to below $1
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