If Bitcoin is centralized, will it still have value ? - page 2.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on August 13, 2023, 04:50:19 AM

If Bitcoins are centralised, then definitely the price will go down. It won’t be as demanding as it is now. Now as it controlled by a centre, so yes you won’t completely have the access to your funds or Bitcoins. They will imply many rules and regulations on the coin and finally it will be treated as an asset under the government. To understand better you can compare Bitcoins with Digital gold. This will be treated same like the digital golds.

We can say for that is going to happen or not. If we take a look at centralized assets like gold etc, it derives its value because people think it has value and buys it. Being decentralized is one of the key reasons people get into bitcoin but that's not what gives it the value it has today. It's the same way the price of Bitcoin often goes up after a halving event. In such a situation, members of the bitcoin community expect the value to go up because the halving event significantly reduces mining reward + less bitcoin to be added in the future.

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The worst-case scenario for bitcoin if it becomes centralized in the future is that people who want privacy will literally dump their coins on the market. The price will drop hard and it's also possible to lose a lot of interest about its real use cases.

So far I don't find the OP's question too important to warrant more attention - but some opinions have been encountered here. Bitcoin will remain decentralized - but governments will also succeed in making their users centralized by regulation.To be honest that I didn't think about those scenarios and I just focused more on saving energy on more important things based on my plan on bitcoin.

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Quote from: DanWalker on August 13, 2023, 03:38:32 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 12, 2023, 05:52:00 PM

Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 11, 2023, 05:55:06 PM

Besides, there's huge chance of BTC being close down if it was centralized coin when some government see it's high potential as threat to their national currency.

If bitcoin becomes centralized, I don't think the government will shut it down but instead they will take control and use it for their own purposes. I believe the government as well as we all see the potential of bitcoin, but since they cannot control it, they see it as a threat to fiat. And if they can control bitcoin, they will acknowledge its potential, but on the contrary, bitcoin will become a threat to us like fiat. But anyway, this hypothesis will never happen because bitcoin is already decentralized and no one can control it.

I believe you should know by now that the government never cares about what you do and I think the situation will give them the needed benefit.
If Bitcoin is centralized, I believe it will be shut down/totally banned in some countries that are currently using it now due to political interest, and the reason why some governments somehow support Bitcoin is because of its decentralized mechanism. An example is what happened to Libra which said will be global cryptocurrency, the governments of different countries were against it until the team and investors involve quit the project.

I don't know about the coin you're talking about, but if you assume that when bitcoin is centralized, the government will shut it down, then why don't they shut down other centralized altcoins in the market? ETH or BNB and all the rest of the altcoins are also centralized, but why do they just close Libra coin and ignore all other altcoins? Once bitcoin becomes centralized, it is no different from altcoins.

You don't know about Libra which is now Diem? The project was introduced by Facebook in 2019, supported by Coinbase, Mastercard, PayPal, crypto and blockchain firms Bison Trails, and venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz, etc.
The reason why Ethereum and BNB are not shut down is because they are not seen as threats by the government.

Quote from: DanWalker on August 13, 2023, 03:38:32 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 12, 2023, 05:52:00 PM

Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

The value of bitcoin will be completely dependent on supply and demand, not manipulated by the government or anyone.

Let's not lie to ourselves, there will always be market manipulation in the Bitcoin market despite its decentralization in nature and being dependent on the level of demand and supply.

I mean, in the future, when bitcoin matures and becomes bigger like gold or the stock market, nobody can manipulate it anymore. For what's going on, with a market cap of just $1 trillion, manipulation is inevitable and easily manipulated. I'm not denying what's going on.

You have a point but it's hard to tell what will happen in the future since tomorrow is not promised.

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Quote from: Promocodeudo on August 13, 2023, 01:44:13 PM

If Bitcoin is centralized, that's to say that the purpose of its creation has been defeated, people are interested in Bitcoin because of its decentralized nature, the decentralization of Bitcoin makes it impossible for any individual or group of persons to have control over it, the value of this digital asset is obtained from the confidence and conviction that it is secure and decentralized, the influx of investors also determines the value of bitcoin. So centralization is not a good idea because the government will hijack the process and make policy for everyone just like fiat currency.

and that means, someone has the control over this currency. and that's the beauty of this top coin, no one can totally control its existence. thanks to satoshi for creating such coin. no one can manipulate even if they want to.
and this is the reason why the governments don't like this currency because there are some blindspots for them. they can't get a hold of all the transactions made on this network. they can get a hold from registered crypto-exchanges, but outside of that, they can't have the whole picture.

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If Bitcoin is centralized, that's to say that the purpose of its creation has been defeated, people are interested in Bitcoin because of its decentralized nature, the decentralization of Bitcoin makes it impossible for any individual or group of persons to have control over it, the value of this digital asset is obtained from the confidence and conviction that it is secure and decentralized, the influx of investors also determines the value of bitcoin. So centralization is not a good idea because the government will hijack the process and make policy for everyone just like fiat currency.

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Quote from: tjtonmoy on August 13, 2023, 06:24:33 AM

Decentralization does not determine Bitcoin's value. It all comes from demand and supply. But as Bitcoin is decentralized and has many use cases, people are getting interested in it, thus the demand is increasing which is the key factor for its rising value. If Bitcoin ever become centralized, the value of it will suffer a lot. Knowing that someone else can control or manipulate your assets will make people less interested in it.
Where Bitcoin stands now, it is the perfect solution for centralization. Many people are here just for the money Bitcoin can give from investing. But those who are here for its real reason, they know how much decentralization means. If Bitcoin becomes centralized, governments will try to take control of it. Which is impossible right now. So yeah, Bitcoin will suffer but it will still have some value.

Decentralization does not directly determine the value of bitcoin, but it stimulates people's demand to increase, so it can be said that decentralization has indirectly created value for bitcoin. if bitcoin wasn't decentralized it wouldn't appeal to everyone, so there wouldn't be demand and the price wouldn't go up like it is today. so, it can be said that decentralization plays an important role in increasing the value of bitcoin.

Honestly, I believe that if bitcoin becomes centralized, people's interest in it will drop dramatically and its value will drop as well, although maybe decentralization doesn't play a major role in creating the volatility of bitcoin.

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If Bitcoin was launched as a centralized coin it would never have gotten as big as it has. It wouldn't have reached even $100 million market cap forget about $100 billion or $1 trillion. As a centralized coin it would have died years ago. The fact that Bitcoin is decentralized is what gives it its power and success.

However there are many groups today that are trying to centralize Bitcoin for their own evil reasons, but they'll fail and decentralization will win.

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Decentralization is not the only factor that defines its value. More centralization or not, Bitcoin can still survive in the market and will certainly have monetary value. However, there may be a shift in the target audience and user base as the focus shifts.

Philosophical consideration is also an important angle. Some see Bitcoin as just a payment and store of value instrument, while others may find more insight into decentralization, financial revolution, or financial freedom. This perspective really depends on the individual and creates diversity in the community.

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Quote from: posi on August 13, 2023, 04:19:41 AM

-snip-
But OP's question is if it becomes centralized, is it worth it? And I think it will still be worth it, but it won't be as big as it is now. The value of bitcoin comes from people's trust and need, people need a decentralized asset to escape government control and bitcoin has provided that. So I also think that decentralization is what makes bitcoin so valuable.

When Bitcoin becomes centralized is it worth it?
It will never be worth it and it will just be a disaster and bitcoin will be abandoned.
Whatever the reason Bitcoin should still be decentralized and that is the main purpose of Bitcoin, the main purpose of Sathosi creating it.

We will never escape the attention of the government. Now that Bitcoin has become a popular digital asset and is used by everyone, governments are trying to slow it down and want to control it by providing regulations, imposing taxes on crypto users, and other things that will benefit the government.

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Decentralization does not determine Bitcoin's value. It all comes from demand and supply. But as Bitcoin is decentralized and has many use cases, people are getting interested in it, thus the demand is increasing which is the key factor for its rising value. If Bitcoin ever become centralized, the value of it will suffer a lot. Knowing that someone else can control or manipulate your assets will make people less interested in it.
Where Bitcoin stands now, it is the perfect solution for centralization. Many people are here just for the money Bitcoin can give from investing. But those who are here for its real reason, they know how much decentralization means. If Bitcoin becomes centralized, governments will try to take control of it. Which is impossible right now. So yeah, Bitcoin will suffer but it will still have some value.

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Quote from: Nrcewker on August 13, 2023, 04:50:19 AM

If Bitcoins are centralised, then definitely the price will go down. It won’t be as demanding as it is now. Now as it controlled by a centre, so yes you won’t completely have the access to your funds or Bitcoins. They will imply many rules and regulations on the coin and finally it will be treated as an asset under the government. To understand better you can compare Bitcoins with Digital gold. This will be treated same like the digital golds.

The whole foundation of Bitcoin would be destroyed by centralization! We would stick to conventional banking if we wanted an asset managed by a single firm. What about the analogy to digital gold? Even gold isnt as centrally controlled as you're suggesting for Bitcoin, though. Bitcoin's decentralized nature, free from the control of any one entity, is its fundamental allure. It would be similar to tying a wild animal up to bring it under centralized control.

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If Bitcoins are centralised, then definitely the price will go down. It won’t be as demanding as it is now. Now as it controlled by a centre, so yes you won’t completely have the access to your funds or Bitcoins. They will imply many rules and regulations on the coin and finally it will be treated as an asset under the government. To understand better you can compare Bitcoins with Digital gold. This will be treated same like the digital golds.

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Quote from: DanWalker on August 13, 2023, 03:38:32 AM

I don't know about the coin you're talking about, but if you assume that when bitcoin is centralized, the government will shut it down, then why don't they shut down other centralized altcoins in the market? ETH or BNB and all the rest of the altcoins are also centralized, but why do they just close Libra coin and ignore all other altcoins? Once bitcoin becomes centralized, it is no different from altcoins.

Coins like ether are centralized but make use of part of bitcoin decentralized system which is blockchain. If bitcoin is centralized, we are going to think like it is not using blockchain but just like other fiat. This will make the government to easily take it down. Bitcoin is still the reason altcoins are surviving. If bitcoin is centralized like them, there would have been more crypto regulations and all would be considered as security.

Quote from: DanWalker on August 13, 2023, 03:38:32 AM

I mean, in the future, when bitcoin matures and becomes bigger like gold or the stock market, nobody can manipulate it anymore. For what's going on, with a market cap of just $1 trillion, manipulation is inevitable and easily manipulated. I'm not denying what's going on.

Are you sure that bitcoin is manipulated? After people can hold and make profit. In long term bitcoin has been a store of value. No manipulation like you think. As of today, the marketcap for bitcoin is $572 billion.

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I doubt Bitcoin will make it this far if it's centralized, even if it does the manipulation will be Insane as the government will see this as an opportunity to keep robbing the people, the only way for them now is to join the race, pack as many Bitcoin as they can.

Bitcoin is strong enough to be use to finance a whole country if done right, since it's decentralized there is fear about it, even if any centralized organization under the government are criticizing Bitcoin, it doesn't mean they aren't investing too, they are just mad that something out of nowhere become the biggest valuable digital asset.

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Quote from: taufik123 on August 12, 2023, 01:53:58 PM

There will be no single institution that can fully control Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is decentralized which means it cannot be regulated by anyone including the government.

The reason why Bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone completely is because Bitcoin uses a Proof-of-Work (POW) Network system that makes it possible for the Bitcoin network to operate independently without a central authority.
It's made up of thousands of computers called nodes spread all over the world.

So no one can fully control it.
The government can only provide rules according to its working area, it will not affect the Bitcoin Network system directly.
They may only be able to manipulate.

Then, can the Bitcoin POW Network become PoS?
Of course that will never happen, because Bitcoin with the POW Protocol network is the identity of Bitcoin, Bitcoin with POW will remain decentralized.

We all know that bitcoin is decentralized and it will never become centralized, it will forever be decentralized and no one can control it.

But OP's question is if it becomes centralized, is it worth it? And I think it will still be worth it, but it won't be as big as it is now. The value of bitcoin comes from people's trust and need, people need a decentralized asset to escape government control and bitcoin has provided that. So I also think that decentralization is what makes bitcoin so valuable.

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Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 12, 2023, 05:52:00 PM

Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 11, 2023, 05:55:06 PM

Besides, there's huge chance of BTC being close down if it was centralized coin when some government see it's high potential as threat to their national currency.

If bitcoin becomes centralized, I don't think the government will shut it down but instead they will take control and use it for their own purposes. I believe the government as well as we all see the potential of bitcoin, but since they cannot control it, they see it as a threat to fiat. And if they can control bitcoin, they will acknowledge its potential, but on the contrary, bitcoin will become a threat to us like fiat. But anyway, this hypothesis will never happen because bitcoin is already decentralized and no one can control it.

I believe you should know by now that the government never cares about what you do and I think the situation will give them the needed benefit.
If Bitcoin is centralized, I believe it will be shut down/totally banned in some countries that are currently using it now due to political interest, and the reason why some governments somehow support Bitcoin is because of its decentralized mechanism. An example is what happened to Libra which said will be global cryptocurrency, the governments of different countries were against it until the team and investors involve quit the project.

I don't know about the coin you're talking about, but if you assume that when bitcoin is centralized, the government will shut it down, then why don't they shut down other centralized altcoins in the market? ETH or BNB and all the rest of the altcoins are also centralized, but why do they just close Libra coin and ignore all other altcoins? Once bitcoin becomes centralized, it is no different from altcoins.

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 12, 2023, 05:52:00 PM

Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

The value of bitcoin will be completely dependent on supply and demand, not manipulated by the government or anyone.

Let's not lie to ourselves, there will always be market manipulation in the Bitcoin market despite its decentralization in nature and being dependent on the level of demand and supply.

I mean, in the future, when bitcoin matures and becomes bigger like gold or the stock market, nobody can manipulate it anymore. For what's going on, with a market cap of just $1 trillion, manipulation is inevitable and easily manipulated. I'm not denying what's going on.

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Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

Quote from: suzanne5223 on August 11, 2023, 05:55:06 PM

Besides, there's huge chance of BTC being close down if it was centralized coin when some government see it's high potential as threat to their national currency.

If bitcoin becomes centralized, I don't think the government will shut it down but instead they will take control and use it for their own purposes. I believe the government as well as we all see the potential of bitcoin, but since they cannot control it, they see it as a threat to fiat. And if they can control bitcoin, they will acknowledge its potential, but on the contrary, bitcoin will become a threat to us like fiat. But anyway, this hypothesis will never happen because bitcoin is already decentralized and no one can control it.

I believe you should know by now that the government never cares about what you do and I think the situation will give them the needed benefit.
If Bitcoin is centralized, I believe it will be shut down/totally banned in some countries that are currently using it now due to political interest, and the reason why some governments somehow support Bitcoin is because of its decentralized mechanism. An example is what happened to Libra which said will be global cryptocurrency, the governments of different countries were against it until the team and investors involve quit the project.

Quote from: DanWalker on August 12, 2023, 12:48:41 AM

The value of bitcoin will be completely dependent on supply and demand, not manipulated by the government or anyone.

Let's not lie to ourselves, there will always be market manipulation in the Bitcoin market despite its decentralization in nature and being dependent on the level of demand and supply.

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Quote from: Alpha Marine on August 12, 2023, 04:23:07 PM

Quote from: Onyeeze on August 10, 2023, 06:56:23 PM

The concept of some people always go that bitcoin being centralised it will devalue bitcoin, but from the creation of bitcoin satoshi have already know that if bitcoin being centralised they will be enough challenges and competitions in bitcoin and that is why satoshi made bitcoin to decentralized with the Co team, even though it was centralized bitcoin would have still have value, even now that bitcoin is still decentralized do you know that people still be scared of bitcoin and they also devalue bitcoin, so nothing can be created and it fails to have people that will become antagonist to it, op should know that

The decentralized nature of Bitcoin is what makes people trust Bitcoin.

It is also the reason why some people do not trust Bitcoin. People have different preferences, one can trust one thing and at the same time, the other will not trust that same thing. We should be open-minded on the possibilities since people have different reaction and thought on a same event.

Quote from: Alpha Marine on August 12, 2023, 04:23:07 PM

The trust Bitcoin has is what gives Bitcoin its value. Bitcoin doesn't have so much value today because it was the first cryptocurrency ever made. If Bitcoin was a centralized coin, the fact that it was the first cryptocurrency won't mean shit if isn't trusted. Funny enough it might not even be remembered today. It would just be another trivia question, "which coin was the first cryptocurrency ever created and in what year was it created?

True that it is the trust and confidence that Bitcoin will deliver is the reason why it has value. It is not because it is decentralized but rather being the pioneer in the industry and its creation as the start of the crypto revolution.

Quote from: Alpha Marine on August 12, 2023, 04:23:07 PM

I agree that decentralization may not be the only feature that makes Bitcoin stand out, but that is the feature that makes it unstoppable.
The government has no direct way of attacking Bitcoin and that's because it's decentralized, imagine Bitcoin is owned and controlled by a firm, that firm would always be under attack from the government.

Satoshi is genius, getting out of the scene even before Bitcoin boom. This way the government don't have a way to pressure the decentralized nature of Bitcoin since there is no central authority or person to pressure. No one can threat a system that is working in a decentralized system. They can shutdown some but new one will pop-up just like the torrenting file system.

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Quote from: Onyeeze on August 10, 2023, 06:56:23 PM

The concept of some people always go that bitcoin being centralised it will devalue bitcoin, but from the creation of bitcoin satoshi have already know that if bitcoin being centralised they will be enough challenges and competitions in bitcoin and that is why satoshi made bitcoin to decentralized with the Co team, even though it was centralized bitcoin would have still have value, even now that bitcoin is still decentralized do you know that people still be scared of bitcoin and they also devalue bitcoin, so nothing can be created and it fails to have people that will become antagonist to it, op should know that

The decentralized nature of Bitcoin is what makes people trust Bitcoin. The trust Bitcoin has is what gives Bitcoin its value. Bitcoin doesn't have so much value today because it was the first cryptocurrency ever made. If Bitcoin was a centralized coin, the fact that it was the first cryptocurrency won't mean shit if isn't trusted. Funny enough it might not even be remembered today. It would just be another trivia question, "which coin was the first cryptocurrency ever created and in what year was it created?

I agree that decentralization may not be the only feature that makes Bitcoin stand out, but that is the feature that makes it unstoppable.
The government has no direct way of attacking Bitcoin and that's because it's decentralized, imagine Bitcoin is owned and controlled by a firm, that firm would always be under attack from the government.

taufik123

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There will be no single institution that can fully control Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is decentralized which means it cannot be regulated by anyone including the government.

The reason why Bitcoin cannot be controlled by anyone completely is because Bitcoin uses a Proof-of-Work (POW) Network system that makes it possible for the Bitcoin network to operate independently without a central authority.
It's made up of thousands of computers called nodes spread all over the world.

So no one can fully control it.
The government can only provide rules according to its working area, it will not affect the Bitcoin Network system directly.
They may only be able to manipulate.

Then, can the Bitcoin POW Network become PoS?
Of course that will never happen, because Bitcoin with the POW Protocol network is the identity of Bitcoin, Bitcoin with POW will remain decentralized.

Topic: If Bitcoin is centralized, will it still have value ? - page 2. (Read 644 times)