If Bitcoin is centralized, will it still have value ? - page 4.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Quote from: Smartgoat on August 10, 2023, 05:55:17 PM

Bitcoin decentralization have contributed to it scarcity

This information is wrong.

Well, if Bitcoin was centralised in the sense that it was being operated like a banking institution or run like other firms, then the value would have been affected because of how the management would have been run. Another factor that contributes to the value of Bitcoin is its supply. Already, majority of people buy Bitcoin every day, and even if all the Total supply of Bitcoin were in circulation and perhaps all the Bitcoin were being distributed among all the Bitcoiners that we have, each person would not even have up to one Bitcoin. So, the supply and demand of Bitcoin is also one thing that keeps its value high.

Z-tight

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Quote from: legendbtc on August 11, 2023, 06:20:24 AM

I have always believed that it is bitcoin's decentralization that sets it apart from every other asset and has caused demand for it to increase, which will increase its value.

This can be argued, take note that there are so many people who don't care if BTC is censorship resistant, permissionless or decentralized, these people just want to buy BTC through a centralized exchange and even hold it there to make revenue, and from my observation, these people are greater in number than those who use BTC in the way in which it was created for.

BTC was created to be a p2p network without a third party, but how many people trade BTC without a middleman involved in the trade, if BTC was centralized, and still maintains its fixed supply and volatility, it will have value because people will see they can make revenue from it, so there will be demand, but the user base of people who want a censorship resistant currency may not use it.

LDL

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Bitcoin not only imports its value due to its decentralized nature but also involves a number of important regulators. Especially since the limited supply and no effect of inflation have any effect on its value.
If Bitcoin was centralized, then all its control system would be on a particular third party, so its demand and value in the market would decrease over time and eventually the value of Bitcoin would become zero and at some point it would disappear from the market.

legendbtc

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Quote from: Z-tight on August 11, 2023, 05:41:24 AM

Quote from: Smartgoat on August 10, 2023, 05:55:17 PM

Bitcoin value is tied to it's decentralized nature and the principle it was founded. if Bitcoin were to become centralized, it would likely have a significant impact on its value. the decentralized nature of Bitcoin is a key factor in it's value. Bitcoin decentralization have contributed to it scarcity and security. all of this which are factors that influence it's value.

Decentralization means that BTC is censorship resistant, permissionless and free for anyone, it is not what gives BTC all of its value. Fixed supply and demand is what gives BTC most its value, so as long as people still use BTC, it will have value. There are a lot of centralized currencies and institutions that are very valuable, that is because people make use of their product. So even if BTC was created exactly as it is today, but with a central control, it would still have its value, just that the user base of people who want a censorship resistant currency won't use it.

You are not wrong in saying that supply and demand are the determinants of bitcoin value. But the demand for bitcoin is high and still growing very high because people like and need its decentralization. Imagine if bitcoin didn't decentralize and become centralized, would you need it? If we don't need it, the demand for it won't be high and its value won't be high.

I have always believed that it is bitcoin's decentralization that sets it apart from every other asset and has caused demand for it to increase, which will increase its value.

Y3shot

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If bitcoin is centralised I doubt if it will be existing because being centralised it is just the easiest way for government to have power over it. Bitcoin becoming centralised won't have value because it will be controlled by human or a particular company. Satoshi knows if bitcoin is to be centralised currency it will failed currency which is not going to last and will be crashed in the market just like other centralised currency.

If you want to know if bitcoin will still have value if become a centralised, just take a look of other centralised crypto how they struggled with the market and could not survive the market.

Blitzboy

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Even if Bitcoin was slightly centralized, might it not still hold some intrinsic value? After all, many things we use daily, like shitty banking, are centralized yet still maintain value in our society.

You mention investors potentially losing confidence if Bitcoin were centralized, but arent investor behaviors unpredictable anyway? Just as one may argue that decentralization creates scarcity and security, another could posit that slight centralization might bring about stability and predictability. And while government regulations and restrictions might be seen negatively by many, they could also be a sign that digital currencies are gaining mainstream acceptance.

Your conclusion about the value derived from its decentralized nature, although resonating with the masses, seems slightly generalized. Centralization isn't the only factor affecting value. But again, whats value without some unpredictability?

KiaKia

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It's either the government take it down with ease or they take over Bitcoin and use it to their own advantages, there will be more than manipulation from Bitcoin whales, the government will make sure they benefit the most out of Bitcoin.

I believe crypto is still a thing today because of Bitcoin, it's like the snake head, if you cut it off the whole body will die, Bitcoin is why crypto is still so much alive, and all the credit goes to Nakamoto for making Bitcoin a decentralized digital currency.

Bitcoin remains the undefeated champion for the government to kill, been decentralized wins.

yudi09

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Quote from: Smartgoat on August 10, 2023, 05:55:17 PM

-snip-

in conclusion, Bitcoin value is derived from its decentralized nature, which is closely with it's ideal, and any move towards centralization could fundamentally alter it's core and diminish it's value proposition.

The total amount of bitcoin supply is 21 million. The data seen on the market today shows that the number in circulation has reached more than 19 million. The closer to supply, the closer to scarcity bitcoin will be. When scarcity occurs, the value increases.
EFS has said that decentralization isn't the only thing that gives value to bitcoin and I confirmed it.

I think that you can understand very well because the difference between bitcoin and other cryptos is very easy to find if someone wants to look for it. Bitcoin brings freedom. With the decentralized nature of bitcoin, people find freedom.
Hopefully I'm not wrong in responding to your point.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Smartgoat on August 10, 2023, 05:55:17 PM

Bitcoin value is tied to it's decentralized nature and the principle it was founded. if Bitcoin were to become centralized, it would likely have a significant impact on its value. the decentralized nature of Bitcoin is a key factor in it's value. Bitcoin decentralization have contributed to it scarcity and security. all of this which are factors that influence it's value.

Decentralization means that BTC is censorship resistant, permissionless and free for anyone, it is not what gives BTC all of its value. Fixed supply and demand is what gives BTC most its value, so as long as people still use BTC, it will have value. There are a lot of centralized currencies and institutions that are very valuable, that is because people make use of their product. So even if BTC was created exactly as it is today, but with a central control, it would still have its value, just that the user base of people who want a censorship resistant currency won't use it.

rat03gopoh

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Instead of controlling, if bitcoin were to technically become centralized at any point, then it would be stopped in the first 10 seconds of its run by opponents.
During the journey, the flow of bitcoins continues to be concentrated to a few centralized services that have the potential to control circulation. Assuming it's in confiscation, that only adds to the scarcity of bitcoins in "active" circulation. It doesn't change the essence of bitcoin's decentralized nature and it will still have value.

gunhell16

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Quote from: Smartgoat on August 10, 2023, 05:55:17 PM

Bitcoin value is tied to it's decentralized nature and the principle it was founded. if Bitcoin were to become centralized, it would likely have a significant impact on its value. the decentralized nature of Bitcoin is a key factor in it's value. Bitcoin decentralization have contributed to it scarcity and security. all of this which are factors that influence it's value.

if Bitcoin were to become centralized, it could raise concerns about the control, and the investors might loss confidence in it's ability to remain a reliable store of value and a medium of exchange. centralization could also make it suspicious to government regulation and restrictions, which could further impact on it's value.

in conclusion, Bitcoin value is derived from its decentralized nature, which is closely with it's ideal, and any move towards centralization could fundamentally alter it's core and diminish it's value proposition.

When Bitcoin was created by Satoshi Nakamoto it was immediately connected to the decentralized and my own blockchain in my understanding, which means that Bitcoin was created without any government of the country being able to control it. And for sure there are no miners who will waste time if it is not designed as it is now.

I don't know what came to your mind when you asked this question, what is centralization for you? because if you understood what this means you would surely not ask this post you made about Bitcoin.

Texac

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If Bitcoin is centralized, will it still have value ?

A simple example that shows you the value of a centralized asset is to look at shitcoins. have you seen any shitcoins that hold value and grow year after year like bitcoin? Or are they created and manipulated only by the powerful and wealthy? a centralized asset can also be valuable but the benefits will go only to those who manipulate and control, not us. and that's what's going on in the altcoin market, most of the profits go to the scammers, the market makers, not the investors. But for a decentralized asset like bitcoin, the opportunity to get rich will be divided equally among all those who know how to seize the opportunity.

Plaguedeath

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Quote from: Sim_card on August 11, 2023, 12:30:25 AM

If bitcoin was centralized, it would have been an opportunity for the government to bring its value down or kill bitcoin. If you look at after the creation of bitcoin till date,it has being facing so many challenges from the government either to ban it or to regulate it. All these wouldn't have taken them up to three months to achieve their aim. Meaning the government will still have controversy over the citizens funds in bitcoin and there will still be no financial freedom. I don't even think that they government will allow the price of bitcoin to soar as high as 69k last ATH. It will not be different from other shitcoins.

Nope, it's completely opposite against your thought.

Fiat is centralized, but the government isn't kill fiat, but they're use the centralization to monopoly everything. So if Bitcoin is centralized, the government can adopt or make a partnership with Bitcoin and then control Bitcoin behind it.

The reason why government want to kill Bitcoin is decentralization and they can't fully control Bitcoin.

tbct_mt2

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Quote from: Hamza2424 on August 10, 2023, 06:18:51 PM

What?? Is this a point to prove that Bitcoin won't lose it value, What the Altcoins had to do with the Bitcoin valuation or in reverse methodology as well, Do you mean Bitcoin won't lose its value to 100$ because there are other currencies having lower value compared to Bitcoin?

I mean if very centralized altcoins like Ethereum, BNB can have high prices, Bitcoin will have such high prices even if it changes from decentralized to centralized because it has many better contributors to its value.

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Brother, you could have said that BTC won't lose because there is a large community standing behind it, Because it's not easy to manipulate the resources, Becasue Bitcoin always stands on the top because of its market capital, or anything making more sense.

Did you read my post?

I emphasized that many factors decide value of Bitcoin, not only centralization or decentralization, even I did not describe those factors. I wrote that if Bitcoin becomes centralized, it will have higher value than Ethereum, BNB as it has more better factors, and at least it will be about $2,000 that is a high value for Bitcoin before 2017 bull run.

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Not an offensive motive but really I wasn't expecting such type of explanation from a senior.

I did my job well but you did not read, only want to make post for your quota.

Sim_card

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If bitcoin was centralized, it would have been an opportunity for the government to bring its value down or kill bitcoin. If you look at after the creation of bitcoin till date,it has being facing so many challenges from the government either to ban it or to regulate it. All these wouldn't have taken them up to three months to achieve their aim. Meaning the government will still have controversy over the citizens funds in bitcoin and there will still be no financial freedom. I don't even think that they government will allow the price of bitcoin to soar as high as 69k last ATH. It will not be different from other shitcoins.

Strongkored

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Being centralized because it is controlled by one large institution? how many sources does the institution have to prepare in order to be able to take over all Bitcoins including mining, because these institutions must be able to pump Bitcoin prices continuously up so as to convince the holders to sell them on the exchange but even that is not necessarily successful because Bitcoin holders have strong enough faith how this coin will remain decentralized even if someone is able to have more than 50% of the amount

aylabadia05

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Quote from: _act_ on August 10, 2023, 06:15:29 PM

Know that other cryptocurrencies mimic bitcoin but they are getting to be centralized, bitcoin created the way which they still use to function.

The process of imitation carried out by other cryptocurrencies on Bitcoin is due to Bitcoin's commitment to maintaining decentralization of all forms of bids submitted. Unable to shake fundamental principles, they went their own way by copying Bitcoin to create other coins. From here we can judge for ourselves that it is Bitcoin's commitment to a large community that makes its value strong as a cryptocurrency.

Quote from: _act_ on August 10, 2023, 06:15:29 PM

If not for bitcoin, there will also not be altcoins.

And this is the answer, without Bitcoin there will never be altcoins.
Bitcoin is a currency that cannot be regulated like other currencies and does not need a third party in the transaction process.

Helena Yu

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Value and price are different.

If Bitcoin is centralized, obviously Bitcoin has no value anymore because it will kill the other usability. Bitcoin will not be pseudonymous, no privacy, can be controlled by the team, etc. Fixed supply is pointless, there are many centralized coin with fixed supply.

But Bitcoin price will not become 0 because many stupid people are still want to make money, just take a look with 99% centralized coins in CMC.

mindrust

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Centralized bitcoin no better than any FIAT because essentially they are the same thing. Bitcoin has two most important features.

1- Decentralized
2- (Semi) Private

Without these 2 features, we can't call it bitcoin.

You can send and receive USDT, USD, EUR and smiliar centralized shitcoins too. Just because you can do these, don't mean that they are better than bitcoin. They are not, because they not decentralized like bitcoin.

Only gold can compete with bitcoin in this department (decentralization) but then you can't send/receive gold like you do it with btc so gold fails at mobility which kills the purpose of being a currency.

adaseb

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Bitcoin is more decentralized now than it was a couple of years back. Remember prior to the China ban? Most of the hash rate was from those Chinese farms. Now it’s more scattered all over the planet which is what we need.

Also Bitcoin is not like Tether or USDC which a centralized user can freeze funds. The BTC can never be frozen onchain, same with the native ETH.

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