If bitcoin price is $10.000, will fiat be worthless? - page 29.

Sithara007

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Quote from: antonioa on January 26, 2017, 01:27:00 PM

Fiat will become useless only for those people who use Bitcoin. But they are few compared to those who use the fiat. So the high price of Bitcoin has no effect on Fiat

Even these Bitcoin users are indirectly dependent upon the fiat. The bitcoin exchange rates are calculated with respect to the fiat currencies such as the US Dollar and the Chinese Yuan. The shopping sites which accept Bitcoin calculates the price first in fiat, and then converts the price to BTC as per the existing exchange rate.

antonioa

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Quote from: Zadicar on January 26, 2017, 07:04:31 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 26, 2017, 05:59:10 AM

Even if the exchange rate crosses $10,000 per coin, the market cap will only increase to around $160 billion. Compare this to the market caps of the United States Dollar and the Euro (somewhere around $1.5 trillion each, and growing by close to 10% per year). So even if Bitcoin reaches 10K per coin, it will only have a very small effect on the fiat.

It wont affect at all hence bitcoin is just depending on the value of fiat and seeing on the marketcap it cant really affect no matter what since value does really have big difference,i dont know why fiat would be worthless at all if bitcoin would increase its price enormously compared to now.

Fiat will become useless only for those people who use Bitcoin. But they are few compared to those who use the fiat. So the high price of Bitcoin has no effect on Fiat

aioc

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I don't think so fiat will never get out of our system,it's been here since time immemorial,some part of the world can apply this technology but majority of people living in this world still and will always depend in fiat so my answer is no way.

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Quote from: deisik on January 26, 2017, 07:28:36 AM

Provided that you are right about the US dollar or the Euro market cap in the first place, of course (I don't know what they amount to).

Yeah... I was a little vague with my post. When I meant "market cap", I was referring to the total value of all the banknotes and coins in active circulation. This amount does not include the value of treasury bonds and other non-physical varieties of fiat. I think we should not be bothered about the non-physical component, as there are no such equivalents in BTC.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 26, 2017, 05:59:10 AM

Even if the exchange rate crosses $10,000 per coin, the market cap will only increase to around $160 billion. Compare this to the market caps of the United States Dollar and the Euro (somewhere around $1.5 trillion each, and growing by close to 10% per year). So even if Bitcoin reaches 10K per coin, it will only have a very small effect on the fiat.

I don't think that 10% would exert little to no effect

Provided that you are right about the US dollar or the Euro market cap in the first place, of course (I don't know what they amount to). ~160B dollars of Bitcoin market cap would make around 10% of these currencies market cap, and I'm inclined to think that it will be pretty impressive by itself alone and by the effect it could produce. In such matters (namely, monetary matters) even a slight change may cause devastating consequences due to strong feedback loops

Like a small disturbance causes serious oscillations ("resonance cascade") that lead to an avalanche effect

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on January 26, 2017, 05:59:10 AM

Even if the exchange rate crosses $10,000 per coin, the market cap will only increase to around $160 billion. Compare this to the market caps of the United States Dollar and the Euro (somewhere around $1.5 trillion each, and growing by close to 10% per year). So even if Bitcoin reaches 10K per coin, it will only have a very small effect on the fiat.

It wont affect at all hence bitcoin is just depending on the value of fiat and seeing on the marketcap it cant really affect no matter what since value does really have big difference,i dont know why fiat would be worthless at all if bitcoin would increase its price enormously compared to now.

bryant.coleman

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Even if the exchange rate crosses $10,000 per coin, the market cap will only increase to around $160 billion. Compare this to the market caps of the United States Dollar and the Euro (somewhere around $1.5 trillion each, and growing by close to 10% per year). So even if Bitcoin reaches 10K per coin, it will only have a very small effect on the fiat.

Pejoh Asu

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Automatic, everyone would think that fiat money worthless, surely will be the economic chaos, the price is 1 egg can reach tens of dollars like in Zimbabwe, surely people will switch to using bitcoin.

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Quote from: emezh10 on January 25, 2017, 09:05:04 PM

I think no. And that's probably impossible to happen. Because if you can see the bitcoin has a limited supply and the bitcoin can't replace or the fiat will not became worthless. Because it will became worthless if the bitcoin is like fiat have a unlimited supply but no. So the fiat is the top and I think the bitcoin is second so for over all that's impossible.

When bitcoin will replace fiat, it does not need to be a fiat like since what people like the original platform of bitcoin. This would not be happening anyway as our fiat system has a wide adoption compared to bitcoin and in the event the price will increase that much, it would surprise the world but would not disrupt fiat.

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I think no. And that's probably impossible to happen. Because if you can see the bitcoin has a limited supply and the bitcoin can't replace or the fiat will not became worthless. Because it will became worthless if the bitcoin is like fiat have a unlimited supply but no. So the fiat is the top and I think the bitcoin is second so for over all that's impossible.

Vivace92

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I am very sure that fiat money never worthless? This is because fiat money is one coat of arms which are unlikely to be eliminated. Although one day replaced by digital money but fiat money will still be there.

Idrisu

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Quote from: Amph on December 13, 2015, 05:56:34 AM

bitcoin will never be able to suck all the fiat money, they can just print more without problem

also fiat is already worthless, but you're obligated to use it for the majority of things

if you mean collapsed, i don't think so

I don't agree with you that fiat money is worthless as every countries in the world are still depending on fiat money. Bitcoin and altcoin are still on the developing and it will take years for it to out smart fiat money and others momentary assets. We hope bitcoin price surge up to $10000 in a near by future, though bitcoin is currently fluctuations and we have a lot of uncertainty about its regulations.

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Quote from: stadus on January 24, 2017, 11:03:21 PM

Quote from: shane on January 24, 2017, 08:57:46 PM

maybe yes.
if bitcoin hit $10.000, maybe we must pay $100 for a cup of coffe Grin

in this case with 1BTC ($100.000) we can't buy home

Where's the sense here? There will be no connection for the price of coffee even when the price of bitcoin will reach to that big value, that is solely based on the demand while the necessities will most likely to remain the same in terms of price or will slightly increase depends on the economic situation.

LOL that's right. The price of bitcoin won't have any effects with the price of daily commodities and the dollar. It's bitcoin that's dependent on dollar's rates so it won't matter. It would be good news though for long time bitcoin holders if that happens but its very farfetched to become reality at this point

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Quote from: deisik on January 24, 2017, 01:01:14 PM

Quote from: Fatanut on January 24, 2017, 07:28:17 AM

Bitcoin will be worthless too if fiat is worthless and that's right since we're using fiat right now mainly. But what if the prices of everything are in bitcoin form instead? For example, a coffee is cost 0.0002BTC? Regardless if fiat has value or not, bitcoin would always have value. I think this is a possible scenario but it would take a lot of time before this happens. The majority of fiat have to be converted in bitcoins first. Basically, the whole thing should be upside down. This time, fiat depends on bitcoin.

I didn't quite understand what you meant to say on the whole, but if I got your point right, you basically claim that without fiat Bitcoin would be worthless too. This is an old story which people tend to repeat regularly. Nevertheless, if everything is priced in Bitcoin directly, wouldn't that prove the contrary? That is, that Bitcoin has value since you can pay with it for a cup of coffee (leaving aside technical issues)? There are no existential barriers to price anything priceable directly in bitcoins (I repeat it again for dumbasses that I discard technical issues), and we don't need to convert any fiat to bitcoin at that...

Since all paper will burn in the end

I think I kind of messed up at the part where I put it on bold (the one in the black font) so you kind of got confused to what I was trying to say. Try reading without the green highlighted part. We were basically saying the same thing.. If this whole currency dependency was turned upside down, fiat being worthless wouldn't mean anything to us (I might be repeating myself but whatever...) because at that time, bitcoin would be the standard measure of all currencies both crypto or fiat.

At that point, if all papers were burned, bitcoiners would all be like "Meh. Just like what I expected back when bitcoins wasn't yet popular."

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Quote from: shane on January 24, 2017, 08:57:46 PM

maybe yes.
if bitcoin hit $10.000, maybe we must pay $100 for a cup of coffe Grin

in this case with 1BTC ($100.000) we can't buy home

Where's the sense here? There will be no connection for the price of coffee even when the price of bitcoin will reach to that big value, that is solely based on the demand while the necessities will most likely to remain the same in terms of price or will slightly increase depends on the economic situation.

shane

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maybe yes.
if bitcoin hit $10.000, maybe we must pay $100 for a cup of coffe Grin

in this case with 1BTC ($100.000) we can't buy home

EdenHazard

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Quote from: mornabo on January 24, 2017, 05:25:58 PM

Quote from: Sahyadri on January 21, 2017, 08:48:24 AM

Bitcoin is an alternative mechanism of value transfer for a specific demographic of people.

It can never make fiat money worthless.

I think bitcoin has many functions not only methods of sending money, but also currencies and commodities, when prices are very high bitcoin certainly it will give effect to the fiat when the bitcoin users is big enough

yes it is true , and once a lot of merchant adopt bitcoin and a lot of people love to use it in daily basis , i can not see any impossibility for bitcoin to make fiat worthless and then disappeared because of displacement era.

hard to accept it , but the future are in front of you .

ifightformerkel

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No, fiat would be worth the same as now, because 10.000 Dollar for bitcoin would be nothing.

10.000 Dollar would be only the Marketcap of 140 Billion dollar, this is the marketcap for example of the credicard Visa.

I think we can begin with the talkking, if fiat is dead, when 1 bitcoin will reach minimum 100.000 Dollar.

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Quote from: mornabo on January 24, 2017, 05:25:58 PM

Quote from: Sahyadri on January 21, 2017, 08:48:24 AM

Bitcoin is an alternative mechanism of value transfer for a specific demographic of people.

It can never make fiat money worthless.

I think bitcoin has many functions not only methods of sending money, but also currencies and commodities, when prices are very high bitcoin certainly it will give effect to the fiat when the bitcoin users is big enough

Actually yes, another of its functions, and in fact I just mentioned it in another thread, but I would like to emphasize here again if you let me, is that it can also be used for the payment of services or jobs due to is ease of handling especially for people who have access to devices that interact in one way or another with BTC, And that undoubtedly in the future will increase dramatically and will require the use of very efficient electronic media and is where it has advantage in comparison to traditional methods, but it would be absurd to want to replace traditional methods also, I think these must coexist and in any case improve.

mornabo

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Quote from: Sahyadri on January 21, 2017, 08:48:24 AM

Bitcoin is an alternative mechanism of value transfer for a specific demographic of people.

It can never make fiat money worthless.

I think bitcoin has many functions not only methods of sending money, but also currencies and commodities, when prices are very high bitcoin certainly it will give effect to the fiat when the bitcoin users is big enough

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