If we can see a country with 'Bitocin standard' monetary system - page 3.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 28, 2019, 10:10:52 PM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 28, 2019, 09:25:18 PM

snip

It's so easy for any country to publish their own cryptocurrency, but we can't say this kind of cryptocurrency are valueable just according to they are tax havens. How about the Petro in Venezuela, people still don't like it, and we can't see any value from this cryptocurrency. A new fiat using 'bitcoin standard' may can make a stable economy system, and we don't want to invest in any kind of fiat, we just want to hold or use it, that's why we don't need a new cryptocurrency.

Petro failed because people see it as shady, not to mention the regime creating it and the reason. I don't think a government would peg their digital fiat to bitcoin, if that's the case they'd should just use bitcoin, which they won't. They'll just make their own and let it float like the system now.

I'd say let them. Let them back it with whatever they want (or nothing at all) and let the market decide if people find it valuable.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on November 29, 2019, 03:13:50 AM

Quote from: maman567 on November 29, 2019, 02:23:19 AM

American have dominance economic from other countries and make their money value have higher price, maybe when their country not have many power full make their money value will be down, but if many countries want to use bitcoin I think USD of american money left the name and many people or companies want to accept bitcoin as currency payment.

Fiat will never stop being here. It will be there even if bitcoin or crypto is accepted into payment systems wide and beyond. Fiat is the biggest mode of transaction even today and there are people who are not willing to accept crypto because of ignorance of what actually controls it, its bad reputation smeared by yellow journalism and so on. Older people are very less likely to accept it too but they will die out soon (
However the time at which fiat and crypto usage reaches an equilibrium is far from now. Currently we should focus more on adoption and acceptance of bitcoin in different marketplaces.

According to the history, gold was using to exchange, and then we saw 'gold standard' . The evolution of history always in an orderly way and step by step.

Let's see.

Wink

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: meliodas on November 29, 2019, 07:57:06 AM

To be honest, it won't happen. A country with a bitcoin standard monetary system is impossible since if they will purely rely or depend on bitcoin in their monetary system then a lot of things will fluctuate especially the prices of the basic goods and services that the people need. It might lead to a chaotic scenario where people are complaining on how unstable the market is.

We are talking about future but not now.However the volatility of bitcoin is low in sometimes, we saw less then 3% volatility of bitcoin price in a part time of October. I believe in the near future , bitcoin price will up to a relatively stable price and it is enough to be a standard subject.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: Amel on November 29, 2019, 07:49:40 AM

Quote from: GideonGono on November 29, 2019, 06:25:01 AM

Quote from: alexsandria on November 29, 2019, 04:42:54 AM

I'd like to see this one. However bitcoin supply is finite thus, it won't last at some point in time. Though price is fluctuating but in some point in condition. In addition, bitcoin in by default at exactly every 4 years supply is halving which on the other hand has a direct effect in the economy. Bitcoin can act as money but fiats cannot act as crypto.

I disagree with your statement that Bitcoin’s limited supply would hinder being used as standard monetary system. We should recognized the fact that Bitcoin has eight decimals hence even when the price soar high then I think it would accommodate the need of the people. Though in your last statement, I am with you.

Indeed,bitcoin limited supply will not prevent it from being used as a standard monetary system but due to limited supply, the price of bitcoin will continue to soar high. The higher the price, the more inefficient the decimal generated because the decimal number is too small and the amount of money in the world will be difficult to define if only with 8 decimal digits.

The limited supply of bitcoin will not limite supply of money.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: maman567 on November 29, 2019, 02:23:19 AM

Quote from: drlukacs on November 28, 2019, 03:10:13 AM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 02:07:03 AM

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

Besides these positive points, it is certainly not a stable and peaceful country. why? because no country wants to hold or trade currencies that are always highly volatile and manipulative. That is also the reason why many governments hate crypto in general and bitcoin in particular. they are afraid, they are afraid that people will detect this "decentralization" and then carry out money laundering or manipulating operations that the government cannot control. For the financial world, it's one of the worst things no country wants.

American have dominance economic from other countries and make their money value have higher price, maybe when their country not have many power full make their money value will be down, but if many countries want to use bitcoin I think USD of american money left the name and many people or companies want to accept bitcoin as currency payment.

You gave us a good imagine, thank you! But again ,we are talking about 'bitcoin standard' not using bitcoin as monetary.

imstillthebest

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Quote from: meliodas on November 29, 2019, 07:57:06 AM

To be honest, it won't happen. A country with a bitcoin standard monetary system is impossible since if they will purely rely or depend on bitcoin in their monetary system then a lot of things will fluctuate especially the prices of the basic goods and services that the people need. It might lead to a chaotic scenario where people are complaining on how unstable the market is.

its possible . there are news on the past which claim's to be that bitcoin is like thier daily currency because they use btc more than they use thier own fiat currency . that happens because they were having a problem financialy or they simply have a problem with thier own currency so they look for alternative's .

its been a perfect time because bitcoin that time was starting to get popular . other country was still on a process tho and seems not ready yet for this kind of idea .

meliodas

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To be honest, it won't happen. A country with a bitcoin standard monetary system is impossible since if they will purely rely or depend on bitcoin in their monetary system then a lot of things will fluctuate especially the prices of the basic goods and services that the people need. It might lead to a chaotic scenario where people are complaining on how unstable the market is.

Amel

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Quote from: GideonGono on November 29, 2019, 06:25:01 AM

Quote from: alexsandria on November 29, 2019, 04:42:54 AM

I'd like to see this one. However bitcoin supply is finite thus, it won't last at some point in time. Though price is fluctuating but in some point in condition. In addition, bitcoin in by default at exactly every 4 years supply is halving which on the other hand has a direct effect in the economy. Bitcoin can act as money but fiats cannot act as crypto.

I disagree with your statement that Bitcoin’s limited supply would hinder being used as standard monetary system. We should recognized the fact that Bitcoin has eight decimals hence even when the price soar high then I think it would accommodate the need of the people. Though in your last statement, I am with you.

Indeed,bitcoin limited supply will not prevent it from being used as a standard monetary system but due to limited supply, the price of bitcoin will continue to soar high. The higher the price, the more inefficient the decimal generated because the decimal number is too small and the amount of money in the world will be difficult to define if only with 8 decimal digits.

GideonGono

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Quote from: alexsandria on November 29, 2019, 04:42:54 AM

I'd like to see this one. However bitcoin supply is finite thus, it won't last at some point in time. Though price is fluctuating but in some point in condition. In addition, bitcoin in by default at exactly every 4 years supply is halving which on the other hand has a direct effect in the economy. Bitcoin can act as money but fiats cannot act as crypto.

I disagree with your statement that Bitcoin’s limited supply would hinder being used as standard monetary system. We should recognized the fact that Bitcoin has eight decimals hence even when the price soar high then I think it would accommodate the need of the people. Though in your last statement, I am with you.

alexsandria

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I'd like to see this one. However bitcoin supply is finite thus, it won't last at some point in time. Though price is fluctuating but in some point in condition. In addition, bitcoin in by default at exactly every 4 years supply is halving which on the other hand has a direct effect in the economy. Bitcoin can act as money but fiats cannot act as crypto.

TheUltraElite

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: maman567 on November 29, 2019, 02:23:19 AM

American have dominance economic from other countries and make their money value have higher price, maybe when their country not have many power full make their money value will be down, but if many countries want to use bitcoin I think USD of american money left the name and many people or companies want to accept bitcoin as currency payment.

Fiat will never stop being here. It will be there even if bitcoin or crypto is accepted into payment systems wide and beyond. Fiat is the biggest mode of transaction even today and there are people who are not willing to accept crypto because of ignorance of what actually controls it, its bad reputation smeared by yellow journalism and so on. Older people are very less likely to accept it too but they will die out soon (
However the time at which fiat and crypto usage reaches an equilibrium is far from now. Currently we should focus more on adoption and acceptance of bitcoin in different marketplaces.

maman567

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Quote from: drlukacs on November 28, 2019, 03:10:13 AM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 02:07:03 AM

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

Besides these positive points, it is certainly not a stable and peaceful country. why? because no country wants to hold or trade currencies that are always highly volatile and manipulative. That is also the reason why many governments hate crypto in general and bitcoin in particular. they are afraid, they are afraid that people will detect this "decentralization" and then carry out money laundering or manipulating operations that the government cannot control. For the financial world, it's one of the worst things no country wants.

American have dominance economic from other countries and make their money value have higher price, maybe when their country not have many power full make their money value will be down, but if many countries want to use bitcoin I think USD of american money left the name and many people or companies want to accept bitcoin as currency payment.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: dunfida on November 28, 2019, 04:30:27 PM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 28, 2019, 02:26:46 AM

Quote from: avikz on November 27, 2019, 11:32:17 PM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 02:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

Being optimistic towards btc isnt really that bad but you do talk about implementing a system which wont really fit out nor would happen in reality.Yes, its capable on some sort of aspects
but it wont really be applicable if we do talk about to those countries which do have big economies.As long government do exist then theres nothing you can do if they would tend to
print more money.Come to think first on overall supply of btc alone, you can already presume that making this as a standard monetary system wont fit out.

Yes, i always talking about 'the third world country' to using 'bitcoin stantdard' , please read my words again.
We don't need to worry about the maxmium supply of bitcoin, we are lucky because satoshi gave us a decimal point splited bitcoin. More countries come to buy bitcoin will make single bitcoin more valueable.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 28, 2019, 09:25:18 PM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 28, 2019, 02:23:42 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 27, 2019, 10:02:04 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 07:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

You said it yourself, they don't have influence. That they have their own crypto don't mean that they won't accept the standard. Marshall Islands for example has stated that they'd be using both their new currency and the dollar. The motivation for coming up with a crypto is mostly economic. It benefit from increased activity due faster and cheaper transaction and it also doesn't hurt to have multiple ways of receiving funding.

Like I said, these small island countries pretty much don't have industries. They can try to be tax havens but that still leaves them vulnerable. I can imagine these countries each coming up with their own crypto sovereign and enticing foreigners to "invest" in them.

It's so easy for any country to publish their own cryptocurrency, but we can't say this kind of cryptocurrency are valueable just according to they are tax havens. How about the Petro in Venezuela, people still don't like it, and we can't see any value from this cryptocurrency. A new fiat using 'bitcoin standard' may can make a stable economy system, and we don't want to invest in any kind of fiat, we just want to hold or use it, that's why we don't need a new cryptocurrency.

Mometaskers

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 28, 2019, 02:23:42 AM

Quote from: Mometaskers on November 27, 2019, 10:02:04 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 07:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

You said it yourself, they don't have influence. That they have their own crypto don't mean that they won't accept the standard. Marshall Islands for example has stated that they'd be using both their new currency and the dollar. The motivation for coming up with a crypto is mostly economic. It benefit from increased activity due faster and cheaper transaction and it also doesn't hurt to have multiple ways of receiving funding.

Like I said, these small island countries pretty much don't have industries. They can try to be tax havens but that still leaves them vulnerable. I can imagine these countries each coming up with their own crypto sovereign and enticing foreigners to "invest" in them.

stompix

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Quote from: BigBoy89 on November 28, 2019, 07:17:33 PM

Quote from: stompix on November 28, 2019, 09:26:47 AM

You've got it out of the context of at least what I meant.

Montenegro, for example, is quite big, compared to the rest. Close to 700K, young and old. The national currency is Euro. In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy. Mountain regions are like 17th-century villages (and that's perfect for relaxing).

Because you made a point trying to argue about the same point being wrong.

First, 622 000 is closer to 600k rather than 700k

Second, what's the point of mentioning Montenegro is using the euro as an argument about them not being able to switch to cryptos?
Why would Sweden be more advance in digitalization forever and not a small country in which internet coverage can easily achieve 100% and distances are shorter, remote villages are fewer if any (since you mentioned Vatican, lol).

Montenegro main trading partner is Serbia, a switch won't affect anything as conversion rates are already in place, for Denmark a switch to another currency that is not pegged to the euro would mean a headache no amounts of danish would cure but on the opposite side would be Iceland who has its own currency but trades a lot less in euros and is more advanced already in digital payments.

Oh, and btw...

Quote

In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy.

I'm not sure our fellow montenegrin users will be happy with this one Grin

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: barbara44 on November 28, 2019, 02:48:58 PM

Uuhm, I don't think you're right. I like Bitcoin, and I have always thought the same until I realized that Bitcoin is not meant for that purpose. If countries should switch to making use of cryptocurrency I don't think it's going to magically make our economy better, make everyone rich and turn every country into paradise on earth.

As long as we continue with our evil ways and politicians remains the criminals they are, then nothing is changing, we are still going to continue to face the same problems we are facing these days. Is in our hands to decide whether things get better or not, Bitcoin is not a magical spell or whatsoever you think it is that's going to bring solutions to our problems. No matter what you do, there will always be those that don't want things to get better, they are the ones we need to tackle.

Yes, you are right. Bad people are every where! But using 'bitcoin standard' are limited to do bad things, we need progress but not a big change

BigBoy89

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Quote from: stompix on November 28, 2019, 09:26:47 AM

Snip - too long

You've got it out of the context of at least what I meant.

Montenegro, for example, is quite big, compared to the rest. Close to 700K, young and old. The national currency is Euro. In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy. Mountain regions are like 17th-century villages (and that's perfect for relaxing).

dunfida

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 28, 2019, 02:26:46 AM

Quote from: avikz on November 27, 2019, 11:32:17 PM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 02:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

Being optimistic towards btc isnt really that bad but you do talk about implementing a system which wont really fit out nor would happen in reality.Yes, its capable on some sort of aspects
but it wont really be applicable if we do talk about to those countries which do have big economies.As long government do exist then theres nothing you can do if they would tend to
print more money.Come to think first on overall supply of btc alone, you can already presume that making this as a standard monetary system wont fit out.

barbara44

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Uuhm, I don't think you're right. I like Bitcoin, and I have always thought the same until I realized that Bitcoin is not meant for that purpose. If countries should switch to making use of cryptocurrency I don't think it's going to magically make our economy better, make everyone rich and turn every country into paradise on earth.

As long as we continue with our evil ways and politicians remains the criminals they are, then nothing is changing, we are still going to continue to face the same problems we are facing these days. Is in our hands to decide whether things get better or not, Bitcoin is not a magical spell or whatsoever you think it is that's going to bring solutions to our problems. No matter what you do, there will always be those that don't want things to get better, they are the ones we need to tackle.

Topic: If we can see a country with 'Bitocin standard' monetary system - page 3. (Read 839 times)