If we can see a country with 'Bitocin standard' monetary system - page 4.

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Quote from: BigBoy89 on November 27, 2019, 05:50:29 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

A lot of countries and territories are using Dollar or Euro as a national currency.

Example with the Euro. Countries currently using the euro: (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-countries-use-the-euro-1435138)

Andorra (not an EU member)
Monaco (not in the EU)
Montenegro (not in the EU)
San Marino (not in the EU)
Vatican City (not in the EU)

Territories that use the euro:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British territory)
French Southern and Antarctic Lands
Saint Bathelemy (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Martin (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (overseas collectivity of France)

You realize you're not contradicting her but rather helping her point
Andorra (76.965) , Monaco (38.695) , Montenegro (622.359) , San Marino (33.400) , Vatican (1000)
All of them combined have lee people than one major city like Valencia?

And the territories....common
Akrotiri and Dhekelia is a military base with zero population, French Southern and Antarctic Lands has zero population, Saint Bathelemy has 9000,
Saint Martin has barely 40 000 and Saint Pierre and Miquelon barely 6000.

A single building in France has more than 10% of that.

No, you would have fared been far better by mentioning the currencies that are pegged to the euro through the ERM mechanism like Denmark.
Bulgaria also, not part of the ERM still has it's currency pegged to the euro.

Also, as a PS
I don't know how it sounds in other languages but for me "Bitocin" sounds like a cartoon name, funny as hell.
Probably something like Topolino in Italian.

jseverson

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 08:21:50 AM

Quote from: jseverson on November 27, 2019, 07:08:16 AM

-snip-

The fact is consumption makeing economic growth is a paradox.

Not necessarily. More money going around is better for the economy; businesses thrive, employees thrive, etc etc.

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 08:21:50 AM

The lower price will make more consumption.

In the short term, yes, but if people know that their money multiplies by just sitting there, and all the while goods are constantly lowering in price, they'll only purchase the absolute minimum they could live with. This will choke out businesses at some point, halting economic activity. Here's a more detailed write up.

We could also take Bitcoin as an example, where people would rather hold than spend because they're incentivized to do so .

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 08:21:50 AM

If you believe in Bitcoin you should know what did Hayek said but not traditional economy knowledge.Our world is full of goverment's lie now

All I can really say about that is that the Great Depression didn't correct itself; it was corrected by spurring spending. Don't get me wrong, I would like regulation to be kept to a minimum. I just don't think a deflationary currency is the answer, and neither does Hayek himself:

Quote from: http://hayekcenter.org/?p=4840

“I agree with Milton Friedman that once the Crash [of 1929] had occurred, the Federal Reserve System pursued a silly deflationary policy. I am not only against inflation but I am also against deflation. So, once again, a badly programmed monetary policy prolonged the depression.”

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 01:07:03 AM

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

Besides these positive points, it is certainly not a stable and peaceful country. why? because no country wants to hold or trade currencies that are always highly volatile and manipulative. That is also the reason why many governments hate crypto in general and bitcoin in particular. they are afraid, they are afraid that people will detect this "decentralization" and then carry out money laundering or manipulating operations that the government cannot control. For the financial world, it's one of the worst things no country wants.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: avikz on November 27, 2019, 10:32:17 PM

Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 01:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: Mometaskers on November 27, 2019, 09:02:04 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

avikz

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 01:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Mometaskers

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Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: mu_enrico on November 27, 2019, 11:21:40 AM

To use something as "standard." It should be perceived to have a high and stable value. Gold historically can be used for this purpose, but who knows in the future people might be able to synthesize gold from cheaper materials or people find a new material that can better replace the gold --just for thought experiment by the way.

Back to the topic, In order to use Bitcoin as "standard," the majority of people should perceive Bitcoin as something extraordinary and valuable. It's a tough job for us to convince the masses, with all these forked shitcoins, scams, and manipulations. Maybe (just maybe) after more "testing" in the real world dynamics, if Bitcoin can stay healthy for several more decades, it will get easier to market Bitcoin. Then it naturally becomes standard.

History will prove to us

Keep going!

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: sana54210 on November 27, 2019, 09:13:47 AM

Gold standard was a bit different compared to anything technological, gold standard is based on gold and that is a natural resource that exists in the world without human connection, even if there were no humans on earth tomorrow, there will be gold, we don't create the gold.

Yet bitcoin is created by humans, we call them miners just like the gold miners but in reality they are not mining anything themselves, they do have mining equipment like asic or fpga or whatever which mines it automatically even while they sleep instead of them actually using a pickaxe or whatever.

So, if a country moves to a "bitcoin standard" and what not it would actually be a bit confusing because there would be corporations mining it out and making the standard go down eventually.

We need a standard for now, not for the future when we die.We don't need to worry about more people join in the bitcoin system, the maxmium supply will never change. And as more miner join in , we will see the more strong and stable bitcoin system, that's perfect!

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: plast555 on November 27, 2019, 12:41:44 PM

Obviously, I would love to see such a country.
I also wish our prime minister would be Satoshi, lol.
Now maybe there is no country like where 'Bitcoin standard' monetary system, but China and many other countries have started to issue their own cryptocurrencies and I think that this trend will accelerate.

When some countries fiat become digital currency, it will circulating all over the world , what will be their value based? I would like to see some digital fiat doing a 'Bitcoin standard', then the other countries people will keep this 'fiat' , with no anxiety

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: BigBoy89 on November 27, 2019, 05:50:29 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

A lot of countries and territories are using Dollar or Euro as a national currency.

Example with the Euro. Countries currently using the euro: (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-countries-use-the-euro-1435138)

Andorra (not an EU member)
Monaco (not in the EU)
Montenegro (not in the EU)
San Marino (not in the EU)
Vatican City (not in the EU)

Territories that use the euro:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British territory)
French Southern and Antarctic Lands
Saint Bathelemy (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Martin (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (overseas collectivity of France)

But this is possible only with fiat currencies. You can't force a whole nation or rise a whole nation to the tech level required for mass crypto adoption.

IMO cryptos will remain as a niche currencies for at least few more years.

It's true. China's Hongkong doing 'USD standard' too.But it doesn't matter. A new monetary system need a new standard, the 'third world country' won't doing 'USD standard', 'gold standard' or 'xxx standard' is a good choice.

yarlungzangbo

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Quote from: ecnalubma on November 27, 2019, 07:53:52 PM

Lets refrain from dreaming about it, government’s won’t allow easily for Bitcoin to become a standard monetary norm. Creating their own cryptocurrency is more feasible where they have full control over their monetary system which they cannot do on Bitcoin.

Yes, monetary system is a tool for big country controlling the other countries. We are talking about the 'third world country' , they need a chance to escape the controlling from big country.

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Lets refrain from dreaming about it, government’s won’t allow easily for Bitcoin to become a standard monetary norm. Creating their own cryptocurrency is more feasible where they have full control over their monetary system which they cannot do on Bitcoin.

hatshepsut93

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No one will seriously entertain Bitcoin standard until Bitcoin stops being so volatile. But even then, the world just doesn't want to go back to hard currencies, for example the ideas of gold-backed national currencies moved to the fringe of modern economics, so even with stable Bitcoin there probably won't be Bitcoin standard. There might be non-government issued currencies that are backed by Bitcoin, kinda like that Ethereum token or some centralized payment systems.

BigBoy89

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Quote from: alyssa85 on November 27, 2019, 06:20:39 AM

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

A lot of countries and territories are using Dollar or Euro as a national currency.

Example with the Euro. Countries currently using the euro: (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-countries-use-the-euro-1435138)

Andorra (not an EU member)
Monaco (not in the EU)
Montenegro (not in the EU)
San Marino (not in the EU)
Vatican City (not in the EU)

Territories that use the euro:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British territory)
French Southern and Antarctic Lands
Saint Bathelemy (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Martin (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (overseas collectivity of France)

But this is possible only with fiat currencies. You can't force a whole nation or rise a whole nation to the tech level required for mass crypto adoption.

IMO cryptos will remain as a niche currencies for at least few more years.

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 01:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

We with our hard work are the only one escape of the problems we caused cause this is the world/nature we changed. We can significantly improve economical situation of every living human but will that happen? No cause we have selfish billionaires, lazy people... We have wars between us for no reason or for the sake of 1-2 person who just get pleasure from it and soldiers kill each other to show them show.
But in this situation bitcoin can be a solution cause they won't be able to fake something that's with fixed value like bitcoin. We don't even need local currencies, one global will be great but trading is a huge business in some countries.

plast555

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Obviously, I would love to see such a country.
I also wish our prime minister would be Satoshi, lol.
Now maybe there is no country like where 'Bitcoin standard' monetary system, but China and many other countries have started to issue their own cryptocurrencies and I think that this trend will accelerate.

mu_enrico

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To use something as "standard." It should be perceived to have a high and stable value. Gold historically can be used for this purpose, but who knows in the future people might be able to synthesize gold from cheaper materials or people find a new material that can better replace the gold --just for thought experiment by the way.

Back to the topic, In order to use Bitcoin as "standard," the majority of people should perceive Bitcoin as something extraordinary and valuable. It's a tough job for us to convince the masses, with all these forked shitcoins, scams, and manipulations. Maybe (just maybe) after more "testing" in the real world dynamics, if Bitcoin can stay healthy for several more decades, it will get easier to market Bitcoin. Then it naturally becomes standard.

aardvark15

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Quote from: yarlungzangbo on November 27, 2019, 01:07:03 AM

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

I could see it happen but only with a small or third world country. It’s also possible that a country would use an altcoins that has features that are more conducive for this purpose such as one with low transaction fees.

sana54210

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Gold standard was a bit different compared to anything technological, gold standard is based on gold and that is a natural resource that exists in the world without human connection, even if there were no humans on earth tomorrow, there will be gold, we don't create the gold.

Yet bitcoin is created by humans, we call them miners just like the gold miners but in reality they are not mining anything themselves, they do have mining equipment like asic or fpga or whatever which mines it automatically even while they sleep instead of them actually using a pickaxe or whatever.

So, if a country moves to a "bitcoin standard" and what not it would actually be a bit confusing because there would be corporations mining it out and making the standard go down eventually.

Topic: If we can see a country with 'Bitocin standard' monetary system - page 4. (Read 848 times)