Topic: If you're trying to breathe, you're resisting arrest, cardiac arrest that is! - page 2. (Read 529 times)

I'd say that is partially brushing up on Qualified Immunity and partially brushing up on the fact that when you're sitting in front of a jury, and your lawyer is explaining that you've dedicated your career to public service and talk about all of the good in you (even if you did kill someone) -- the jury will be a bit nicer to you, alongside the judge, as they've been shown to feel pity for a public servant who made a mistake (not to take away from the horrid act done to Floyd just pointing that out)

Also - the judges who are going to be setencing you are most likely going to want / need the police unions endorsement when it's election time. Just another great part of our democracy, elected judges, lol.

Qualified Immunity btw is something that shields government officials from liability, see here:


Can read through the link if you want, tad confusing. But a 2020 retuers report summed up how it related to Police Brutality - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-police-immunity-scotus-snapshot/six-takeaways-from-reuters-investigation-of-police-violence-and-qualified-immunity-idUSKBN22K1AM

Are you brushing up on qualified immunity? I'm not immersed in legalese, only just learned of the term on Last Week tonight.

It sounds like you understand the legal system a lot better then most of us. Is qualified immunity just a cop thing? What if you're a chef at a restaurant and serve some old seafood, or some food contaminated with allergens, (when you knew the food was bad or contaminated) and someone dies. Do you get to claim qualified immunity?

And let's go with a nazi themed analogy since we're on the internet and think about the Nuremberg trials, if we applied our legal system, would they all get qualified immunity?

You are a Yank. I have just as much right to call myself an American as you do.   I am a Canadian citizen living in America.   There are a billion of us in America.

I'm thinking that Chauvin is going to get charged with second degree Murder and even if he does life, the guy isn't going to survive prison. He's probably going to be murdered by someone who is doing life without parole.

Also I'm not exactly sure if those cops are going to hold that whole 'thin blue line' nonsense. Two of the four cops were still on their probationary period, they're fired and they're not going to be rehired (none of them will be) so at this point -- I'd most likely flip to save myself from a jail sentence just because some fucking asshole thought that putting his knee on someones neck was completely okay.

If I'm facing years in jail -- fuck the thing blue line and fuck all of that, I'm not getting a pension nor any benefits nor do I have a chance of being rehired -- flip and save yourself in both the public light and in your criminal case.

You are a Canuck. You don't speak for The United States no matter how bored you are in your frozen wasteland to the North.

The standard defense to that is "if you can breath, you can talk".  It's all fine if the restraint is temporary.  That officer is guilty of negligent homicide at the least and second degree murder at the worst.  The other officers will be charged for failing to stop a crime in progress, and they will defend with the unwritten rules of the brotherhood of the shield.  :/


That is how it's supposed to be.  A judge should sentence crime from a position of trust as repeat offenders.   This officer should be charged with two consecutive life sentences for second degree murder.  But they will take into account many other factors, such as his job duties vs that of a lawyer, for example.


If found guilty, he'll probably get life for 2nd degree, with parole in ten years.   They will take two years off for the year it took him to get his sentence.  Then he'll be a prime candidate for an ankle bracket and confinement at home, if the public loses interest in a few years.

Yes, our American justice system is fucked up. 

One thing that I noticed about both cases is that Eric Gardner was 6'5" and George Floyd was 6'6". Very big men. I don't think that's a coincidence. When an average person comes across a person that tall, they almost seem like giants and I think that contributed to the officers being so forceful. Their height, along with health problems could had contributed to all this.

There are thousands of police people interactions going on every single day. Each with different individuals from both sides, involved in tense situations. No matter what, as the years pass by, some interactions are going to be insane, while others are going to in credible. It's just the way it's going to be.

While this is going to look a bit touch to try to think about, I think that it took people a very long time to notice that this was a real problem in America and that it needed to be acted on. While the officer involved in choking Garner to death didn't face any prison time or anything along those lines, that officer was terminated from his job in the NYPD (even if it was 5 years after what he had done)

I think that the video of Floyd is more gruesome though -- not trying to rate these murders -- as watching someone with a knee on someone elses neck looks a lot more reckless then putting someone in a choke-hold. I don't know if that sounds stupid or anything, but that's just what I think.

Takes time for people to notice these things, and hopefully we can bring forward some real change in the coming years. Who knows what that'll look like.

@KonstantinosM what happened with George was sad, and the policeman should have definitely used better tactics to tackle the situation, but I also feel that the blame lies on higher authorities for failing to educate the police to use better tactics, and empowering them with unlimited power which they’re misusing on innocent citizens.

It’s also pertinent to note that post this incident Portland mayor, has banned the use of tear gas being fired at the protesters unless there no other option left but to use it.

Source:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/live-blog/2020-06-06-george-floyd-protests-n1226451

If George's (Floyd) relatives considered that he was their property, and sued the cops and their bonds in common law, court of record, man to man, for stealing their property, they could win a lot.

To see how to do it the right way, combine what Karl Lentz has to say with the things that Richard Cornforth has found.

When you need more air, because you can't get enough to breathe, you don't use a ventilator on a person, like the cop essentially did with George. One death - George - but all kinds of Covid deaths in hospitals, because ventilating people keeps them from getting the oxygen they need to live.

In these crazy times let's not forget this isn't the first time that this exact same thing has happened.

Eric Garner said I can't breathe 11 times, he was pronounced dead an hour later. He was accused of a petty crime and allegedly resisted arrest. There were multiple officers present and he was unarmed, so it's ridiculous that he would be killed by the police and that it would be viewed like anything other than murder.

For example in the UK unarmed police used their problem solving ability to stop a psychotic man with a machete that was threatening police without killing him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SrDd8oD6fk
Title: UK Police Deescalate Stunningly Dangerous Situation & Save A Man's Life
TLDW: Man on the street, wielding a machete and moving arround erratically is surrounded by the UK police, the police try and keep him contained while verbally de-escalating the situation, waiting for other officers to get shields and stuff.


Now here's a 2014 clip, that includes a compilation of the usual people defending the cops, with the host Jon Stewart roasting them meanwhile.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KqDIPdCOg

At some point a promiment right winger claims that the police don't do that, in defending the cop that it's against the policy of every police department. Well, I guess it's not.


Here's my take on how we solve this. The police are allowed to do these things because they are  supposed to protect civilians. Any abuse of that power should come with a greater penalty then that of a civillian for the simple reason of breaking that trust that we put up on them.

For example, if it's murder, and it's done by a cop the cop has to face a more severe punishment for also breaking that trust. Not fired, not suspended without pay but sent to jail for life.