Topic: IL-76 with EU contractors shoot down in Lugansk. (Read 3590 times)

I followed closely the news of the downed plane on Russian RTR Planeta TV channel, where they also gave an extensive analysis of the situation by a representative from the Russian Air Force. Haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me if I repeat something:

- IL-76 is very vulnerable during approach and landing. It can basically be downed by a heavy machine gun fro 5 kilometres, if the gunner targets the engines.
- For this reason the landing zone must be secured (with no military activity) in the radius of at least 10 kilometres.
- The commander who sent those planes right into the middle of a war zone was knowingly sending the plane to its death. Either that or the commander was misinformed about the situation on the ground.
- The plane was #2 in a flight group of 3 IL-76's. The first plane managed to land with minor damage, the second plane got shot down, while the third plane turned around.
- The planes a capable of transporting up 126 paratroopers (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C8%EB-76) or 3-4 heavy units, such as tanks, howitzers or APCs. The fact that only about 50 people were on board and that the plane was unlikely to fly 1/3 loaded, speaks for the possibility of the planes carrying artillery units.

Also, from http://iskatel-2014.livejournal.com/66401.html
There were reportedly an American general leading a delegation of advisors, consisting of several officials from the Brussels NATO HQ, along with 15-17 people of foreign guards on board of IL-76.

So basically you admit there are only about 20 000 real refugees . Thanks.

Most of the 700,000 figure given by the Russia Today is undoubtedly that of the economic migrants. But at the same time, it would be wrong to say that there are less than 20,000 refugees. There are tens of thousands of people who haven't registered as refugees yet. A large portion of the Eastern Ukrainians (may be a majority of them) have their relatives in Russia. Such people have moved to their relatives' houses, but at the same time they haven't registered as refugees.

From the same article:


Though the figures may actually be correct, these people are not refugees in the strict sense of the word. If it were so, we would by now see huge refugee camps in South-West Russia (which we don't)...

If 700 000 fled in January February alone , I think that the number has reached 60 millions by now according to russia today

"As of 6:00 a.m. Moscow time today, the number of registered refugees who have crossed from the territory of Ukraine stood at over 18,900 people. They are staying in the Southern, Central and Northwestern Federal Districts, as well as Sevastopol and Crimea," Russian Emergency Situations Ministry spokesman Alexander Drobyshevsky told Interfax on Thursday.


http://rbth.com/news/2014/06/19/number_of_registered_ukrainian_refugees_approaching_19000_in_russia_37548.html)

http://www.dw.de/refugee-numbers-in-ukraine-on-the-rise/a-17700146


And before criticizing UN numbers don't forget that you have relied on their figures in at least 100 of your posts

Most of the ethnic Germans had already fled Kaliningrad, by the time the Soviets took it. Stalin however, immediately relocated hundreds of thousands of Slavs to the city.


Here:

http://rt.com/news/ukrainians-leave-russia-border-452/

That's what the Soviets did in Eastern Prussia after WW2...

Actually, where did you get this number? 700,000 refugees is a huge number. If it has anything to do with reality, I think you confuse it with something else (e.g. people moving to Russia for seasonal works)

Poroshenko has the solution for this (hostile local population):

http://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukraines-land-agency-give-land-to-soldiers-in-the-east-for-free-352100.html

It is called population replacement. Already some 700,000 people (12% of the total population) has fled to Russia. Gradually, the remaining population will be replaced by the Western Ukrainians.

This I agree with. But it still leaves off consideration the main question which Russians had to deal with at the time in Chechnya, i.e. what to do with highly hostile local population, and mercenaries (and even Ukrainians themselves that make up, for example, the Right Sector) which don't care a thing about civilians ("subhumans") could only aggravate the situation...

Actually they need very few foreign mercenaries. Mostly to work as trainers and tacticians. Remember that Ukraine is one of the biggest suppliers of mercenaries around the world. Ukrainian mercenaries have fought in many of the recent battles, such as Syria and Libya. They just need to recruit some 100 or 200 trainers from Germany or England, and the remaining can be recruited from Ukraine itself.

So there should be no question of the ability to pay for seasoned fighters by the Ukrainian oligarchs, but it still remains to be seen if anyone would actually agree to fight for this country as a mercenary (save for some tear-aways indeed)?

Billionaires such as Poroshenko and Kolomoyskyi are not the main sponsors. They might have spent more than a billion USD, though. Remember the $ 5 billion spent by the Americans? The funding will come out of that contribution. 

I have no idea. Will wait on another news.

Have You some connections? Kolomoysky head cost $1.500.000.

Ok, let's calculate it. In Ukraine there are at least a dozen dollar multi-billionaires. Now they decide to spend just one billion dollars for mercenaries (actually, this is a small price they may be willing to pay). So, let's take the highest payment, i.e. $10K/day. And it turns out that with just one billion dollars we can allow an army of 1000 "serious" fighters for over 3 months...

mercenaries, lol?

I worked as one and believe me, it ain't cheep. A serious fighter can cost $10K/day. There is no money in Ukraine for mercenaries. Maybe a trainer or two, but a fighting force would cost wayyyyyy more than the conscript army that Ukraine can muster.  

 

So , where there soldiers in the plane or not?
Your opinion in short,  yes or no.

What for event need reaction from here? Why first Airplan landed with no shooting, and second with 3 missile lunch?

Why someone will need talking too much about real things in that cargo?

Now we have democracy and freedom of speech (everyone says what he thinks, lol), so shut up and fuck off you shouldn't complain... Is this not what the West wanted?

So , first we have 200 foreign mercenaries killed in that plane...
Now , there are no bodies there.

And both those scenarios come from the Russian press .

Now , how much can you still trust them after this?