Topic: I'm done with Bitcoin Securities... - page 3. (Read 6340 times)

When I saw ukyo.loan suddenly go from trading at a 6% premium to a 5% discount, I knew something was up.  I immediately asked ukyo for a redemption and when I saw he had logged in but wouldn't answer my questions or redeem my shares, I started selling any time it hit the redemption price (same with graet.loan).  This was weeks before weexchange was broken.  I only had ~2,000 shares, so it wasn't too difficult for me to get out, but the writing was most definitely on the wall for days/weeks before the funds became lost.

I invested in ukyo.loan for the same reasons.  It seemed like an obvious choice for the safest bet on the exchange.  I have since avoided any centralized exchange as they will remain SEC targets as long as they keep pretending to be legitimate exchanges with contracts and act as banks holding user funds.  I believe any website that takes deposits of your funds and holds them online as if they were a bank but are unlicensed to transmit money will be shut down eventually.  I think that will just leave AsicMiner, NastyFans, & gigamining...  If there are others that have broken free of centralized exchanges that I have missed, please feel free to mention them.

the SEC is using google?  oh damn, MP is screwed.

yeah, unfortunately, you're right.  Accountability is difficult.  We all know who Mark Karpeles is, and yet he still gets away with fraud. I'm not sure how you handle that side of it, without just holding the raised funds in escrow and only releasing small amounts at a time, based on agreed milestone completitions.

They googled me. It's not too hard to get someone's number unless that person is intentionally trying to hide.

The problem is that there is no accountability. Maybe some of these scams aren't scams at first. Maybe Labcoin actually was trying to develop hardware and then they realized it was too difficult/expensive to do and they just said "screw it, let's take the money and run".

Both rolled into one --  PatrickHarnett!

The SEC called you on the phone and said they were investigating BF and Neo?  How did they get your number?

maybe not, but it might be better.  If you had it tied with an exchange that only listed credible operations, then it might help to reduce the number of scams.  Maybe.  There's certainly a need for something better, which means to me that there is a business opportunity, just have to figure out how to make it work.

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AM was not a scam at all, I agree. But several other mining companies were scams. There are more horrible investments than good ones and it seems to be shifting more and more in that direction.

They've called me on the phone, primarily regarding Bitfunder but they read these forums and they are aware of everything that is going on here.

Yes, a rating agency or insurance or something would be a good start. But probably not enough.

AM was a mining operation that wasn't a scam.

And, if I may ask, what makes you think the SEC is investigating Bitfunder and/or Neo?

I agree that this industry is filled with scams, but many have said that a problem like this is really an opportunity in disguise.  The trick is to figure out how to provide protection for investors and provide an open market for valid securities.  Maybe a rating agency or escrow or insurance? 

I'm curious how you were able to get out of ukyo.loan in time. Even if I had sold I would have never seen a single bitcoin as weexchange was "broken" and did not process bitcoin withdrawals for a couple of months before Bitfunder actually shut down. And there never was enough liquidity for me to sell, really. I owned 25,000 shares which was 1/8 of the total outstanding shares. I requested a redemption as soon as it looked like bitfunder was having problems. I never got any redeemed. I haven't given up on ukyo, but really, only because I have no other choice. I've been talking to my lawyer but I'm looking for a resolution that doesn't involve suing ukyo, forcing him into personal bankruptcy, and picking up whatever scraps remain.

The funny thing is that I invested in ukyo.loan and xbond because they looked like far safer investments than all the bitcoin securities out there. I figured as long as bitfunder still existed, they both would be paying dividends. I should have bailed once I saw the BTCT was being shut down and realized that Bitfunder was going to follow soon after.

With Labcoin, I originally had planned on getting in on the IPO and selling right away. I would have tripled my 50 coin investment and made 100 coins in a couple of hours. But BTCT was bugged and I couldn't actually purchase anything. Yes, I know. I was one of those horrible speculators that wanted to get in early. ride the wave up, and get out. Even though that did not work out for me, I bought after the IPO anyways and fell for the hype. And held and held until the shares were worthless.

Neo&Bee looked risky, but legitimate to me. I don't think it was an obvious scam. Maybe extremely poorly run, but not on outright scam. With no accountability in bitcoin, *everything* might as well be a scam. I bought my shares directly with my xbond shares which gave me a discount. At the time, 100 BTC I spent were only worth about $10k so it didn't seem like that huge of an investment.

It wasn't all a loss for me though. ASICMiner was a HUGE win for me. And I was able to get out of XBOND before the bonds were recalled. Everything since those two had been a bust.

Looking back, I was very naive and I'd be a fool to continue to invest in bitcoin securities.

... not good statistics but do not worry
Just try to avoid scam next time

Sorry for your lost.

For a short time I ran an insured deposit program.  Nearly everyone who participated (over 90%) got out with significant gains, but the few who stayed in through the collapse were paid their insured amounts and were quite satisfied, as most of them were already in the green at that point as well.  I would say I ran the only one that didn't burn anyone and I was 100% open about the entire thing.  There was nothing dishonest about what I did and I'm surprised you would insinuate as much.

It is unfortunate that you have had such bad luck.  You should research and keep an eye on your funds a little better though.  Labcoin & Neo seemed like easily spottable scams and the writing was on the wall about ukyo.loan.  I was personally buying up ukyo.loan like crazy, but once it was obvious that they would never be repaid there was plenty of opportunity to sell at near the purchase price before BitFunder closed shop.

If you would like to see an organization that is transparent and not run by a scammer, check out some of the things I've been up to with NastyFans.  We aren't all bad.

First, I lose 50+ BTC to Labcoin
Then, 250+ coins to Bitfunder/ukyo.loan
Finally, 100+coins to Neo&Bee

Labcoin definitely was a scam. There isn't even enough information about the other two to make a determination as to what happened!

Bitcoin securities are just faaar too risky and there is no regulation and no protection. You might as well just throw your bitcoins away.

The SEC is investigating all of the above (well, I'm not sure about Labcoin), but by the time they get around to going after them, that money will probably be long gone.

btw, bitcoin mining is also a scam. BFL, Avalon, HashFast, etc... pretty much every company has cheated their customers and there is NO RECOURSE.

This simulator may be a joke, but it is actually pretty accurate: http://www.beepboopbitcoin.com/

All of these scams are very bad for bitcoin and from now on, I'm just going to sit and hold my coins.