OK two things about trading:
-in a world where people are free, trading, ie voluntary exchange between two individuals, will naturally occurs. You may think it's a zero or even negative sum game, it's your right, but if you think it should be forbidden, then you think you know better than others, and you limit freedom of individuals. And i dare to say it's the root of the biggest evils of today's societies. (i don't develop it would take two pages)
-also, like others said it better, trading provides liquidity, which allow anyone to buy bitcoins instantly, at the best price (just think two seconds what would happen if there was no exchange places).
Topic: I'm leaving Bitcoin - page 19. (Read 56544 times)
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail.
+1
But don't worry, bitcon doesn't need its developper to understand economics to keep its value, as long as it keeps its original creator's properties (and it will).
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail.
+1
But don't worry, bitcon doesn't need its developpers to understand economics to keep its value, as long as it keeps its original creator's properties (and it will).
Trading tools are essential to any currency and Bitcoin is no different. If you think Bitcoin can be successful without efficient markets for trading Bitcoin, you are mistaken.
That's your view, and you're entitled to have it. Just as I am entitled to disagree.
(I'm both old enough, educated enough and with enough job experience to consider my viewpoint well founded. I'm sure you are too.)
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail.
The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.
Gavin,
Can you respond to this?
-Charlie
While I am not Gavin, and I do not believe that markets are a zero sum game, a lot of people do.
I believe they provide a service, whether that be hedging or liquidity or something else. Services like bitcoinica provide financial infrastructure for the bitcoin economy.
That aside, the fact is that bitcoinica did not create any immediate benefit, just a transfer of coins between parties I can see that point of view. Calling markets like bitcoinica a zero sum game is not a radical or even problematic viewpoint. Its just not YOUR viewpoint.
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
A lot of us share that view. Bitcoin, for unfortunate reasons, has attracted a good number of people who seem to believe that trading is a good way for people to "make money".
It doesn't make the world a better place. Not on Wall Street, not in Bitcoin. I'm somewhat surprised Zhou shared that view, and very pleasantly surprised that you do Gavin.
Zhou - I'm sure you'll go on to create awesome. Good luck!
P.S. The only thing I regret about Bitcoinica is that there weren't a handful of others competing with them…I think there's no question they were making substantial profits for themselves simply because they were the only option available for leveraged trading…which shows there was demand for what they were offering and enabled them to command what, in my opinion, were very large spreads.
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
A lot of us share that view. Bitcoin, for unfortunate reasons, has attracted a good number of people who seem to believe that trading is a good way for people to "make money".
It doesn't make the world a better place. Not on Wall Street, not in Bitcoin. I'm somewhat surprised Zhou shared that view, and very pleasantly surprised that you do Gavin.
Zhou - I'm sure you'll go on to create awesome. Good luck!
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail.
The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.
Gavin,
Can you respond to this?
-Charlie
Excuse me, Zhou. We haven't met, but I run StrikeSapphire. I think it's great the way you built your site from scratch, like I did with mine, and it's nice to hear you're happy to be moving on to bigger and better things.
But I want to know when we're getting back the $900-1000 or so that were in USD on your site. As a site owner myself, I feel a responsibility to my users to have several times their current funds on tap. While we run on dedicated servers, we don't keep a lot in our hot wallet; instead we rely on services like Bitcoinica where we trust we can keep our backup cash and fluidly move it in and out of BTC. And we pay a premium in transaction fees for that safety.
I think the priority here is getting money back to people. Period. There is no other conversation to be had before that happens. We would have had a lot more money with your site, but you never wrote back to me after I repeatedly requested confirmation of the verification docs I sent, which I assume are now compromised as well.
Right now, what I want to hear is that our USD is being returned to us, and specifically when and how it's being returned. Once that's done, I wish you the best and know you'll be successful in your next ventures. But this is not an appropriate time to look ahead, before you've made your customers whole.
But I want to know when we're getting back the $900-1000 or so that were in USD on your site. As a site owner myself, I feel a responsibility to my users to have several times their current funds on tap. While we run on dedicated servers, we don't keep a lot in our hot wallet; instead we rely on services like Bitcoinica where we trust we can keep our backup cash and fluidly move it in and out of BTC. And we pay a premium in transaction fees for that safety.
I think the priority here is getting money back to people. Period. There is no other conversation to be had before that happens. We would have had a lot more money with your site, but you never wrote back to me after I repeatedly requested confirmation of the verification docs I sent, which I assume are now compromised as well.
Right now, what I want to hear is that our USD is being returned to us, and specifically when and how it's being returned. Once that's done, I wish you the best and know you'll be successful in your next ventures. But this is not an appropriate time to look ahead, before you've made your customers whole.
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
The fact that this statement is coming from the 'lead developer' of Bitcoin does NOT make me feel good about the future of the Bitcoin project. Shows a complete ignorance of markets and economics. Epic epic epic fail.
The fact that Zhou thinks that such markets are a 'zero sum game' as well means that it is a good thing he is getting out. He doesn't even understand what he created. Sad.
Best luck, zhoutong!
Thanks for bitcoinica. Nevertheless, it was a well done job.
Thanks for bitcoinica. Nevertheless, it was a well done job.
Good luck-- I share your view that coming up with better ways of playing zero-sum games is not the way to make the world a better place.
Well now I just feel bad about my poker coaching...
Thanks for your hard work in the Bitcoin community Zhou Tong!
Can't say I am a fan of bitcoinica but you were the right man in charge. your professional and consistently transparent way of handling things impressed me several times. Keep it up and I am sure you will succeed with your new ventures.
Zhou! Your exit - This is a great loss for the entire community. I hope you are not pressured. What is really your own choice. Thank you for your work, good luck, we'll miss you!
Good luck buddy!!
Zhou Tong, I do wish you the best in the future for whatever projects and life actions that you decide to take up. I believe that you already have what it takes to persevere and are a soul that will do so until you are met with your (very deserved) yields. Though already mentioned, I'd just like to confirm that you have already carved yourself a little place in BitCoin history and into the community here. You will be missed and your presence will always be welcomed.
Good luck!!
--Blaztoize
Good luck!!
--Blaztoize
You might want to check out the Zeitgeist Movement and the Venus Project. Groups of people who are really interested in technical solutions that help everyone!
I've enjoyed most of the occupations I've applied myself to, but am happy that I shifted out of one and into another as I look back on things. In my case the differences in the vocations have been huge, but that's a function of the relative freedom of mobility that I've enjoyed.
(Baring new info...) ~weex, Kenna, and now Zhou Tong are on my list of people who have earned some trust if there is a necessity to rely on 'trust' in the future.
(Baring new info...) ~weex, Kenna, and now Zhou Tong are on my list of people who have earned some trust if there is a necessity to rely on 'trust' in the future.
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