imagine if Greece adopted bitcoin | Bitcointalksearch.org

azguard

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Quote from: n2004al on October 01, 2015, 10:50:30 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on June 30, 2015, 02:42:07 PM

However unlikely this may be, please lend me your imagination for a while.

Lets say the Greek prime minister advises Greek citizens to turn to bitcoin. They arrange to help everybody including grandmas to convert their euros to bitcoin. (I know I know. Never in a million years)

So bitcoin is the national currency of greece. All transactions in greece are carried out in bitcoin. Can the network hack it? What would happen?

If bitcoin will be the national currency of Greece it will be another bankruptcy. This time of the Greek State. This State at least will not have the bitcoin needed to pay the salaries to the State employees and the pensions to the pensioners. Then will don't have bitcoin to do economic activity (various investments etc) and to pay the salaries of the military troops (that are not few). Then, I don't know where needed other places when the State need to spend or to have money. They will not have bitcoins to satisfy these needs.

The Greece State don't have money to buy bitcoin for its economic state needs. So will bankrupt.

sure it will they spend more money they can earn or gather from summer holidays, also if im not mistaking there are the only one country that have 15 or 16 paycheck in year (12 month + new year + vocation + additional income)

if they adopt they will be sold not bankrupt.

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If Greece announces to use bitcoin for alternate currency for investment as well as day to day transaction as a legal money, then a large amount of investment will come to bitcoin. This will make bitcoin price to a new level. So, I guess it would be good sign if Greece declare anything like that.

n2004al

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Quote from: eerygarden on June 30, 2015, 02:42:07 PM

However unlikely this may be, please lend me your imagination for a while.

Lets say the Greek prime minister advises Greek citizens to turn to bitcoin. They arrange to help everybody including grandmas to convert their euros to bitcoin. (I know I know. Never in a million years)

So bitcoin is the national currency of greece. All transactions in greece are carried out in bitcoin. Can the network hack it? What would happen?

If bitcoin will be the national currency of Greece it will be another bankruptcy. This time of the Greek State. This State at least will not have the bitcoin needed to pay the salaries to the State employees and the pensions to the pensioners. Then will don't have bitcoin to do economic activity (various investments etc) and to pay the salaries of the military troops (that are not few). Then, I don't know where needed other places when the State need to spend or to have money. They will not have bitcoins to satisfy these needs.

The Greece State don't have money to buy bitcoin for its economic state needs. So will bankrupt.

Amph

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Quote from: mrhelpful on July 01, 2015, 11:49:33 AM

Quote from: Amph on July 01, 2015, 11:42:13 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on July 01, 2015, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

As it is a global currency, would it not also be the case that they would increase their GDP by 55x in doing so?
If they could cheaply buy gold, knowing that it would go up 5500% straight after, that would be a pretty good reason to buy gold!

How would a country go about adopting bitcoin anyway? They couldn't buy on exchanges, how could they acquire the starting currency?

i think it should be done via governments, the governments should convert all is fiat in bitcoin, and start paying with it for every activity that there might be in their country

then their country should produce something and sell it to other countries to really increase its GDP, and not by printing useless fiat money, like they are doing now

So bitcoin becomes the officially world reserve currency to pay off each others off sounds intresting..

but thats a ton of fiat, I see it in a way where they use it as a form of universal debt for other foreign countries to buy, so its another form of lending i guess.

the simply thing that a whole country will use bitcoin, will rise the price to a very high level, which mean that many other will jump into the pump, rising the price even more and helping greece in this way

as a result of this, now their bitcoin have a high value, and for them there is no reason to dump anymore, because bitcoin is their official currency

so without any dumping the price will remain high, which mean that another country will follow and so on

in the end everyone will have bitcoin as a official currency and bitcoin price will shoot to the sky, to an unimaginable level

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Quote from: lissandra on July 01, 2015, 02:11:54 PM

If every transaction of bitcoin were to be from greece alone, I think that means the world is already on it.

Like every second a transaction is from everywhere using it like the dollar, so the odds of this happening is slim to none.

yea is very hard to judge if something like this happening most likely because countries would want to be able to print their own money or get financial aid based on their yearly growth, it could invest in bitcoin like some sort of digital asset, all those billions of euro they waste on stuff just to buy 1 Billion in bitcoin would be great.

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If every transaction of bitcoin were to be from greece alone, I think that means the world is already on it.

Like every second a transaction is from everywhere using it like the dollar, so the odds of this happening is slim to none.

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Quote from: aakashsangwan on July 01, 2015, 02:47:47 AM

no, no one can hack the bitcoin network . Well there are many advantages of greece adopting bitcoin as No central gov. controlling the currency. And it will be like the movie 'guardians of galaxy'. But there will be increased cases of money laundering.

Outside from the obvious points, and money laundering already thing been going on before bitcoin.

I`d say bitcoin does have some flaws, but hacks can be forms of individual basis which then turns into a viral story to make new users not wanting to adopt it. Its a hack indirectly through a social aspect rather then a technical flaw.

eg: hey i got scammed, tells friend. then the friend = never wants to buy bitcoin

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Quote from: Amph on July 01, 2015, 11:42:13 AM

Quote from: NUFCrichard on July 01, 2015, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

As it is a global currency, would it not also be the case that they would increase their GDP by 55x in doing so?
If they could cheaply buy gold, knowing that it would go up 5500% straight after, that would be a pretty good reason to buy gold!

How would a country go about adopting bitcoin anyway? They couldn't buy on exchanges, how could they acquire the starting currency?

i think it should be done via governments, the governments should convert all is fiat in bitcoin, and start paying with it for every activity that there might be in their country

then their country should produce something and sell it to other countries to really increase its GDP, and not by printing useless fiat money, like they are doing now

So bitcoin becomes the officially world reserve currency to pay off each others off sounds intresting..

but thats a ton of fiat, I see it in a way where they use it as a form of universal debt for other foreign countries to buy, so its another form of lending i guess.

mrhelpful

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Quote from: Q7 on July 01, 2015, 08:32:42 AM

I only took pity for those innocent people who worked hard and earn for their savings only to find that they can't even take out their own money apparently because somebody else screwed up things for them. If they knew all these would happen, they would have looked at options on how to bypass it. Now is probably too late.

I only found about bitcoin way back when there was a cnn article, so unless they dont read stuff like cnn or other forms of internet news Im sure its harder to find.

or its the fact they found out what bitcoin was about, but were hesitant due to the scam stories they hear about it.

Amph

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on July 01, 2015, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

As it is a global currency, would it not also be the case that they would increase their GDP by 55x in doing so?
If they could cheaply buy gold, knowing that it would go up 5500% straight after, that would be a pretty good reason to buy gold!

How would a country go about adopting bitcoin anyway? They couldn't buy on exchanges, how could they acquire the starting currency?

i think it should be done via governments, the governments should convert all is fiat in bitcoin, and start paying with it for every activity that there might be in their country

then their country should produce something and sell it to other countries to really increase its GDP, and not by printing useless fiat money, like they are doing now

eerygarden

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Quote from: NUFCrichard on July 01, 2015, 09:53:20 AM

Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

As it is a global currency, would it not also be the case that they would increase their GDP by 55x in doing so?
If they could cheaply buy gold, knowing that it would go up 5500% straight after, that would be a pretty good reason to buy gold!

How would a country go about adopting bitcoin anyway? They couldn't buy on exchanges, how could they acquire the starting currency?

In fantasy world i guess they would just close the banks and advise their citizens to exchange their labour for bitcoin. Batshit crazy.

NUFCrichard

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Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

As it is a global currency, would it not also be the case that they would increase their GDP by 55x in doing so?
If they could cheaply buy gold, knowing that it would go up 5500% straight after, that would be a pretty good reason to buy gold!

How would a country go about adopting bitcoin anyway? They couldn't buy on exchanges, how could they acquire the starting currency?

eerygarden

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Quote from: greBit on July 01, 2015, 09:22:43 AM

it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

Haha

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Greece's current GDP is $241 billion. To bring it down to the bitcoin currency, it would require each Bitcoin to account for $17591 of transactions per year, value each Bitcoin at $1759 or around 55 TIMES ITS VALUE! With the assumption that greeks use the currency and not the world, which is impossible. Greece is undergoing internal devaluation as a consequence of an overvalued currency,it would be fucking stupid to adopt a currency that was bound to increase in value by 55x as a consequence of them starting to use it.

Q7

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I only took pity for those innocent people who worked hard and earn for their savings only to find that they can't even take out their own money apparently because somebody else screwed up things for them. If they knew all these would happen, they would have looked at options on how to bypass it. Now is probably too late.

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:12:06 AM

Perhaps i should have said, "could the network handle it", instead of "hack it". By that I meant the increase in activity. I accept that inflation is still too high and volatility would be wild and open to manipulation. But could the network handle it as it is today?

Look at recent stress tests https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.11700297 , and there was another one yesterday, but still no official review.
It will tell you that the network probably isn't yet ready for such a move, since obviously one small group can clog the chain and delay the transactions.

They could however bypass that by using local payment system where you would credit your account there and pay from there..
But then again, the volatility itself would be insane issue, especially if such adoption by a whole state would happen.

cheers

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Quote from: JarvisTechnology on July 01, 2015, 04:52:30 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:31:54 AM

Quote from: randy8777 on July 01, 2015, 03:27:29 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:12:06 AM

Perhaps i should have said, "could the network handle it", instead of "hack it". By that I meant the increase in activity. I accept that inflation is still too high and volatility would be wild and open to manipulation. But could the network handle it as it is today?

if a country really decide to adopt it, we will need larger blocks for sure. other wise transactions will take longer than usual to confirm as they are pushed to the next block due to the blocks being full.

Is that all that's needed in order to make it scale?

The finance minister of Greece, Yanis Varoufakis says it would not be a good idea to renounce the euro and adopt bitcoin, because it is deflationary bitcoin would be bad for Greece.
It would be far better for Greece to consider adopting the bitcoin open source protocol to create its own government-backed bit-drachma with the Greek central bank. It will boost in their economy standards. Grin

He said for lot of things. Anyway dunno what will happen cuz personally i dont know how they will react will they accept it or reject it. Also they asked for another loan for last month salaries and pensions. Dont think that if they accept btc will influence something big more it will be for Greece downfall more.

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Quote from: JarvisTechnology on July 01, 2015, 04:52:30 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:31:54 AM

Quote from: randy8777 on July 01, 2015, 03:27:29 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:12:06 AM

Perhaps i should have said, "could the network handle it", instead of "hack it". By that I meant the increase in activity. I accept that inflation is still too high and volatility would be wild and open to manipulation. But could the network handle it as it is today?

if a country really decide to adopt it, we will need larger blocks for sure. other wise transactions will take longer than usual to confirm as they are pushed to the next block due to the blocks being full.

Is that all that's needed in order to make it scale?

The finance minister of Greece, Yanis Varoufakis says it would not be a good idea to renounce the euro and adopt bitcoin, because it is deflationary bitcoin would be bad for Greece.
It would be far better for Greece to consider adopting the bitcoin open source protocol to create its own government-backed bit-drachma with the Greek central bank. It will boost in their economy standards. Grin

I did a google search and found that chaps blog. Thanks for sharing.
Here it is in case others are interested http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/04/22/bitcoin-and-the-dangerous-fantasy-of-apolitical-money/

JarvisTechnology

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Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:31:54 AM

Quote from: randy8777 on July 01, 2015, 03:27:29 AM

Quote from: eerygarden on July 01, 2015, 03:12:06 AM

Perhaps i should have said, "could the network handle it", instead of "hack it". By that I meant the increase in activity. I accept that inflation is still too high and volatility would be wild and open to manipulation. But could the network handle it as it is today?

if a country really decide to adopt it, we will need larger blocks for sure. other wise transactions will take longer than usual to confirm as they are pushed to the next block due to the blocks being full.

Is that all that's needed in order to make it scale?

The finance minister of Greece, Yanis Varoufakis says it would not be a good idea to renounce the euro and adopt bitcoin, because it is deflationary bitcoin would be bad for Greece.
It would be far better for Greece to consider adopting the bitcoin open source protocol to create its own government-backed bit-drachma with the Greek central bank. It will boost in their economy standards. Grin

eerygarden

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Quote from: Mieehayii on July 01, 2015, 03:37:31 AM

wish the Greek Prime Minister set a good example for the Bitcoin to Greek citizens? I think it's impossible.

Quote from: eerygarden on June 30, 2015, 02:42:07 PM

However unlikely this may be, please lend me your imagination for a while.

Topic: imagine if Greece adopted bitcoin (Read 1305 times)