Topic: In support of genjix (Read 5321 times)
"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!"
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
shut up dude it's people like you attacking Nefario that gets us into this mess take your beef elsewhere.
You got comprehension issue?
What a irony in your post.
You aren't capable of having a discussion so you should be treated as such.
Let me talk in your capability then..
I know what you are but what am i.
Truly refresh my memory.
Stop trolling. If you want to start a flame war take it to a different thread.
I see the whole thing as BitcoinConsultancy being handed a bomb that exploded in their hands, and then every prick doing nothing but shitting on them endlessly (in the hope that will get them their money back) while they try to clean up a mess someone else made, and then they get fucked again (by an insider).
Lucky you to see the whole thing, unfortunate that you ain't trying to help.Now prepare for the mob to descend upon this thread.
The mob is more likely to come upon you, (and I'll have little to do with it)Quote
....
Quote
I think they're being made scapegoats, and they've tried to deal with it as best they could. You also assume they had the kinds of funds available to them at the time to be able to hire someone else to do PR and claims; unless they use funds from users this is not the case.
In all event, I had very early suggested they use ~3btc off my fund to pay someone to update bitcoinica.com website, then later on offered them to use ~1000$ owed BTC to help them work on the claim. Process. (since they were complaining they couldn't afford good food, had poor hardware, )I also did "maintaining a helpful thread detailing all Bitcoinica posts" ... That could be seen as PR help.
see :
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1005871
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1006325
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1006356
I wrote my reply as a new thread in an atempt to avoid more crap than was already generated by Nefario's incendiary comment.
Unfortunately it was deemed off-topic by a mod so I posted here too.
He're his reply :
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1075904
Personally, I believe everyone involved with Bitcoinica was in over their head and that combined to produce a perfect storm which could only end in disaster.
The only person whose actions actually appear to malicious (as opposed to naive, irresponsible, inadequate or incompetent) are the hacker's. Bitcoinica may have failed even without the hacks but the multiple losses of funds at such a vulnerable stage of its development made failure almost certain. Every single Bitcoin business which holds user funds needs a disaster plan. I hope this calamity has caused more Bitcoin businesses to think about the mistakes which have been made in managing Bitcoinica both pre- and post- hacks and considered how they might manage critical incidents affecting their own services.
The only person whose actions actually appear to malicious (as opposed to naive, irresponsible, inadequate or incompetent) are the hacker's. Bitcoinica may have failed even without the hacks but the multiple losses of funds at such a vulnerable stage of its development made failure almost certain. Every single Bitcoin business which holds user funds needs a disaster plan. I hope this calamity has caused more Bitcoin businesses to think about the mistakes which have been made in managing Bitcoinica both pre- and post- hacks and considered how they might manage critical incidents affecting their own services.
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
shut up dude it's people like you attacking Nefario that gets us into this mess take your beef elsewhere.
You got comprehension issue?
What a irony in your post.
You aren't capable of having a discussion so you should be treated as such.
Let me talk in your capability then..
I know what you are but what am i.
Truly refresh my memory.
I would say OP brought up a very reasonable point. I see both Zhou and Amir (whether they are guilty of something or not) as someone who at least have tried to do something to put things right. The other two personages I see as the ones who are actually the most responsible for the matter but who, however, have negligently abandoned their customers and depositors, who have completely ignored their fiduciary duties, who wisely and egoistically followed "silence is golden" motto and demanded "respect".
I think this is a valid conclusion based on publicly available information.
And here is another absolutely valid point which is kind of undeniable.
I think this is a valid conclusion based on publicly available information.
And here is another absolutely valid point which is kind of undeniable.
Let's stick with the Bomb analogy:
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork...)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.
9) Welcome to now.
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork...)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.9) Welcome to now.
Yeah anyone who blames victims is really off the mark.
So you are saying bitcoins ONLY useful if we never have to trust anyone ever during a transaction? Impossible, and thus bitcoin becomes useless.
So you are saying bitcoins ONLY useful if we never have to trust anyone ever during a transaction? Impossible, and thus bitcoin becomes useless.
Reality does not care if you are the victim. If you are stupid and careless, your money WILL be stolen.
Yeah anyone who blames victims is really off the mark.
So you are saying bitcoins ONLY useful if we never have to trust anyone ever during a transaction? Impossible, and thus bitcoin becomes useless.
So you are saying bitcoins ONLY useful if we never have to trust anyone ever during a transaction? Impossible, and thus bitcoin becomes useless.
Well if we should trust noone but ourselves, how can a bitcoin business ever exist ? They has to be admin, security operators, managers, support etc.
Even the idea of an exchange should not exist with this logic.
Basically at some point responsability and trust in business have to exist else bitcoin is useless.
Even the idea of an exchange should not exist with this logic.
Basically at some point responsability and trust in business have to exist else bitcoin is useless.
Genjix has been around a long time, and his real identity and location are not exactly secret. I have never seen him be anything but nice and professional. I see every indication of trustworthiness, and I think people picking on him are hoping that he will reimburse them for their foolish losses (I never trust ANY website with more than a modicum of bitcoins at a time. Anyone who does so is being extremely foolish.)
So you are saying... He is very trustworthy and professionnal AND at the same time we were foolish trusting him with the security
??There is no contradiction in what he is saying. Basically his point is: "Don't accept counter party risk. ever. not even your mother." - fair enough. Personally I wanted to put my bitcoins to productive use and earn a small return. That is a risk/reward proposition. Clearly the risk was bigger than the reward in Bitcoinica's case.
EDIT: Sorry didn't read his linked post fully until now - A trusted indivdual can quality as counter party risk. But not an online service.
Genjix has been around a long time, and his real identity and location are not exactly secret. I have never seen him be anything but nice and professional. I see every indication of trustworthiness, and I think people picking on him are hoping that he will reimburse them for their foolish losses (I never trust ANY website with more than a modicum of bitcoins at a time. Anyone who does so is being extremely foolish.)
So you are saying... He is very trustworthy and professionnal AND at the same time we were foolish trusting him with the security
?? 
Genjix has been around a long time, and his real identity and location are not exactly secret. I have never seen him be anything but nice and professional. I see every indication of trustworthiness, and I think people picking on him are hoping that he will reimburse them for their foolish losses (I never trust ANY website with more than a modicum of bitcoins at a time. Anyone who does so is being extremely foolish.)
A fool and his money are soon parted, and if you want to watch it happen, there is no better place than these forums. I tried to stem the bleeding somewhat by creating a "Trust no One" post (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trust-no-one-33835) and getting it stickied in the newbie section, but there still seems to be no shortage of suckers.
A fool and his money are soon parted, and if you want to watch it happen, there is no better place than these forums. I tried to stem the bleeding somewhat by creating a "Trust no One" post (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/trust-no-one-33835) and getting it stickied in the newbie section, but there still seems to be no shortage of suckers.
Let's stick with the Bomb analogy:
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.
9) Welcome to now.
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.9) Welcome to now.
Nice. That's one of the main faults I give the consultancy: they "took the bait". It was made so appealing! I can understand how they got suckered into to it.
They were trying to be very cautious on the deal, but at the same time didn't want to loose out. I'm sure they regret it.
On the "bomb analogy". What lit the fuse? In my opinion, it was Zhou's inability to be a team player. It just irked him to the extreme that he had to "see his baby" in their hands.
If Zhou was the hacker that cooked the books (rack space) and stole the money the second time (MT GOX), it would make perfect sense regarding his personality. He would rather see his baby burn consuming his "enemy" and gratifying his pride and ego at the same time. I know that type of personality all too well.
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
shut up dude it's people like you attacking Nefario that gets us into this mess take your beef elsewhere.
You got comprehension issue?
What a irony in your post.
You aren't capable of having a discussion so you should be treated as such.
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
shut up dude it's people like you attacking Nefario that gets us into this mess take your beef elsewhere.
You got comprehension issue?
What a irony in your post.
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
shut up dude it's people like you attacking Nefario that gets us into this mess take your beef elsewhere.
The angry mob mentality does get out of hand I'm sure these guys wouldn't risk their bitcoin street rep. over a failed project.
Most people owed were pretty calm for the first month or so. I have some sympathy for the Consultancy people because they were in a tight spot legally. If they officially wind up the company in NZ, as Tihan is attempting to do, the partners of the company will be the focus of attention. But they also helped get themselves into this unenviable position, they "took the bait" so to speak.
There are some upsides though, thanks to this whole fiasco I will always keep in the back of my mind "Insist on offline physical copies of all information and code before accepting legal responsibility."
There are some upsides though, thanks to this whole fiasco I will always keep in the back of my mind "Insist on offline physical copies of all information and code before accepting legal responsibility."
I give up.
Better learn to be diplomatic next time.
Assumption and biased opinions are not how you persuade ppl.
yes i'm a paid shilling..... better yet THE hacker.
Make valid points and dont make yourself a fool
Let's stick with the Bomb analogy:
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.
9) Welcome to now.
1) They knew it was a bomb. (By doing the security audit and from IRC chatlogs, etc.)
2) They accepted the bomb. (By signing the Bitcoinica limited partnership agreement.)
3) They announced they owned it. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoinica-under-new-management-77975)
4) They pretended it was not a bomb to the outside world to attract capital (http://bitcoinmedia.com/first-licensed-advanced-trading-platform-for-bitcoin/)
5) They did not defuse the bomb. (We were in a transition phase. We were planning to redevelop the platform at some point in the future. What could possibly go wrong!?)
6) The bomb blew up in their faces and wiped out all their customers. (Surprise!)
7) They pretended it was not their bomb. (We didn't finish the paperwork)
They did not clean up the mess. In fact they made it worse.9) Welcome to now.
Interesting, I didn't know how the events happened until now, thanks. We could be dealing with a rogue "bomb squad" here.
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