Pages:
Author

Topic: In the future, will fiat currencies be necessary in the world? - page 37. (Read 35816 times)

sr. member
Activity: 750
Merit: 252
Existence of fiat currency is still unquestionable. Crypto currency have everything that is needed to replace fiat in the future. Banks and governments don't care if it will be fiat or crypto, they will benefit out of whatever it is.
newbie
Activity: 196
Merit: 0
As of now fiat currencies are still necessary in the world because it is the usual currency and if time will come cryptocurrency will be implemented and accepted and use all over the world ,but still fiat currency could still be of use, for the reason that there are places which are not yet digital access or internet acessessibility.
full member
Activity: 2086
Merit: 193
Many of the countries today are not yet prepared for the implementation of cashless transaction and most of the people are still fiat as their currency for transaction so fiat is still necessary in the whole world until all areas are digitized. The adoption of digital currency and the cashless transaction will eventually make the fiat unnecessary in the future.
Cashless society will not happen, because government will not support that. They still need fiat money to make corruption so we have no choice but to still use fiat money. Cash is necessary since this is what we need in our everyday living, maybe cryptocurrency will be an alternative for some people but never to eliminate cash.
full member
Activity: 952
Merit: 104
★777Coin.com★ Fun BTC Casino!
in the future, will there really be a need for fiat currency? Government can collect taxes in crypto, determine how to allocate it, and spend it in crypto. Ppl can receive salaries and do all commerce using crypto. Loans can be done in crypto. Fundraising can be in crypto. Sure, problems have to be worked out in terms of scalability, does it have to be completely decentralized, etc, the value has to become more stable. But theoretically, is there any reason to have fiat in the future?

It has been established that governments can now do taxation without representation by printing more money (which is a tax on everyone holding the currency), instead of trying to get a bill passed that allows it to increase the tax rate. With crypto this would be no more. All increased taxation would have to pass a vote.

From an economic standpoint, the idea that a country can stimulate its economy by adjusting interest rates is tenuous. There is just as strong an argument that lowering interest rates has caused speculation and bubbles, with calamitous results. In a crypto market economy, capital will flow from where it is needed less to where it is needed more.

Fiat currencies are basis for a countries identity. Even in the future where we hope to be a cashless society would exist, Fiat will still live yet alone be used as a basic way of payment on transactions which would not include digitals for payments.
jr. member
Activity: 1050
Merit: 1
Worldwide adoption will definitely render fiat useless, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Come to this part of the world and you will see that it will take years of intensive infrastructural development for the people to come with terms with digital age. Fiat will still be in use for a long in some countries due to this factor. Another great challenge is the governments. They will not give in easy to crypto rulership.
member
Activity: 588
Merit: 11
Many of the countries today are not yet prepared for the implementation of cashless transaction and most of the people are still fiat as their currency for transaction so fiat is still necessary in the whole world until all areas are digitized. The adoption of digital currency and the cashless transaction will eventually make the fiat unnecessary in the future.
full member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 102
Enterapp Pre-Sale Live - bit.ly/3UrMCWI
in the future, will there really be a need for fiat currency? Government can collect taxes in crypto, determine how to allocate it, and spend it in crypto. Ppl can receive salaries and do all commerce using crypto. Loans can be done in crypto. Fundraising can be in crypto. Sure, problems have to be worked out in terms of scalability, does it have to be completely decentralized, etc, the value has to become more stable. But theoretically, is there any reason to have fiat in the future?

It has been established that governments can now do taxation without representation by printing more money (which is a tax on everyone holding the currency), instead of trying to get a bill passed that allows it to increase the tax rate. With crypto this would be no more. All increased taxation would have to pass a vote.

From an economic standpoint, the idea that a country can stimulate its economy by adjusting interest rates is tenuous. There is just as strong an argument that lowering interest rates has caused speculation and bubbles, with calamitous results. In a crypto market economy, capital will flow from where it is needed less to where it is needed more.
Your point is not actually that acceptable. Fiat currencies are a must for the world to carry on its financial transactions and i think without any fiat currencies the normal financial transactions would be hardly not possible because noy everyone is able to use the cryptos ot the digital means of payments. Fiat currencies are centralised and none of the government would allow the decentralised currencies to rule over centralised currencies.
right, it's actually bitcoin as a complement to fiat currency. meaning that essentially fiat currency becomes the main transaction tool, if btc will shift it, i think it takes a long time, because bitcoiner is currently only 1% of the total world population
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
When I referred to crypto being deflationary, I didn't mean its supply being deflationary or otherwise. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin is also inflationary, at least if we discard the high probability that right now the total number of coins available for trade and commerce is diminishing due to "wear and tear" (coins being lost, stuck as dust, burned alive, etc). I use the term deflationary in a broader sense of not being able or sufficient to satisfy the needs of a growing economy. Whoever tries to challenge this point (that there should be enough monetary supply to support such growth at all times) is either clueless (ok, let's call them poorly informed to not overstep the bounds of propriety) or has something else in mind (read has an agenda).

And no, deflation is not inflation with a minus sign attached to it, though I understand why people think it is. In fact, this topic has been beaten to death already but it still comes up pretty regularly. You bring up the same age-old arguments that have been refuted numerous times even on this forum. A hint, producers profits are non-linearly dependent on inflation (deflation) rates, so deflation is directly destructive to an economy and that has nothing to do with its predictability or lack thereof.

I think you are the one that needs to review your economics. I hope this doesn't come off negatively.

No, it doesn't. I somewhat got used to that thing. There's a lot of confusion about deflation and its effects on the economy, so I consider it kind of natural phenomenon.

There are only 2 contexts in which inflation/deflation are used - in the traditional economic sense, and to refer to an increasing or decreasing supply of the currency (which is a new use since crypto came into the mainstream). Bitcoin is deflationary in both of these completely different definitions. When you say that "strictly speaking", bitcoin is inflationary, I can only assume that you mean that the supply is currently increasing? That would be correct, but I was looking at long-term outcomes and whether it is economically viable.

So am I and no, it is not economically viable. If Bitcoin was to completely replace fiat somehow one day and we discard all possible transitory effects as well as Bitcoin's current shortcomings (like transaction costs, confirmation times, etc) as inconsequential, the current level of economic cooperation and development mediated by fiat won't be sustainable, end of story. In effect, that would mean that the world economies would collapse in no time, and given that there are over 7B people now living, the things will quickly develop according to the Mad Max scenario, if not worse than that. Let's assume that the use of Bitcoin is forced upon humans by an almighty entity (or aliens) and there is no way back to fiat money. Just in case, you can substitute any other hard asset for Bitcoin in this hypothetical environment. It will still end in a disaster.

To use deflation to mean anything else is just wrong. You say "deflationary in a broader sense of not being able or sufficient to satisfy the needs of a growing economy". That is a very common misconception in economics. "That there should be enough monetary supply to support such growth at all times" is flat out wrong. Economic growth is based on productivity and is not held back by monetary supply. This specific argument you make was analyzed in great detail and refuted in Rothbard's book The Mystery of Banking. I'm sure you will find the refutation in many other books/places as well.

Let's just agree to disagree. This topic is of no particular interest to me (it is the same stuff over and over again), nor am I interested in verbal gymnastics.

Producers profits are not dependent on inflation rates. I'd like to know what your source on that is. And any references on this forum I'd be happy to look at. Inflation/deflation are monetary phenomenon. Have you studied Nobel Prize winner Milton Friedman's books/discussions on monetary policy and inflation?

The fact that you need sources and cling to sources yourself says pretty much all. You are on your own here (and there).
sr. member
Activity: 560
Merit: 250
"Trading Platform of The Future!"
in the future, will there really be a need for fiat currency? Government can collect taxes in crypto, determine how to allocate it, and spend it in crypto. Ppl can receive salaries and do all commerce using crypto. Loans can be done in crypto. Fundraising can be in crypto. Sure, problems have to be worked out in terms of scalability, does it have to be completely decentralized, etc, the value has to become more stable. But theoretically, is there any reason to have fiat in the future?

It has been established that governments can now do taxation without representation by printing more money (which is a tax on everyone holding the currency), instead of trying to get a bill passed that allows it to increase the tax rate. With crypto this would be no more. All increased taxation would have to pass a vote.

From an economic standpoint, the idea that a country can stimulate its economy by adjusting interest rates is tenuous. There is just as strong an argument that lowering interest rates has caused speculation and bubbles, with calamitous results. In a crypto market economy, capital will flow from where it is needed less to where it is needed more.
Your point is not actually that acceptable. Fiat currencies are a must for the world to carry on its financial transactions and i think without any fiat currencies the normal financial transactions would be hardly not possible because noy everyone is able to use the cryptos ot the digital means of payments. Fiat currencies are centralised and none of the government would allow the decentralised currencies to rule over centralised currencies.
newbie
Activity: 40
Merit: 0
when the majority of people in a country already understand and accept cryptocurrency, it is possible that fiat currency is no longer needed.
sr. member
Activity: 503
Merit: 286
As much as I agree with the first part of your post about a governmentally controlled crypto being just another form of fiat (since this is what I have been saying here for years myself), I as much disagree with the second part of it where you claim that the economy doesn't need fiat. It was the case a few centuries ago when, as you correctly noted, commodity-based currencies had been used universally. Actually, they were based on precious metals (mostly silver if we are talking about Europe), but this is irrelevant to the point in question. In the simplest of terms, economies didn't switch to fiat currencies just for kicks. In fact, it was inevitable, kind of objective necessity if you please. Hard currencies were an insurmountable obstacle to a steady economic growth, so no surprise that such currencies were completely abandoned eventually.

In other words, the modern global economy, given its complexity and the level of interdependency between its parts, simply cannot function on hard currencies as they will wreak havoc in financial settlements throughout the world if we assume for a moment they get introduced again.

Let's set things straight. It had already been tried and didn't work (with gold as money). Any deflationary currency (gold, bitcoin, whatever) would be massively taxing real economy. People who have a lot of tokens representing money would be profiting from just holding them, that is by doing nothing, from people who actually create goods and services, bringing value to the table. Fiat is not perfect but what it is perfect at is taking from idlers a competitive advantage which they otherwise would have just because they happen to be rich.

There is nothing wrong with using a deflationary currency such as gold. The reason why governments moved away from gold is not because it wasn't working. There were 2 issues. Because they needed to buy it on the open market, they could not maintain adequate reserves for what they wanted to spend on, and they had to pay debts with the value that was borrowed. By moving to fiat currencies, they could tax the populace by printing more currency, hence more for whatever spending they wanted to do, and secondly, they could inflate away the value of debts.

Inflation or deflation is only bad if it is unpredictable. Any argument made against deflation can be made against inflation. Why would one borrow money if they would have to pay back more in the future (argument against deflation). Why would one lend money when they are going to get back less in the future (argument against inflation). Why would one buy goods and services when they know they can get it cheaper in the future? If prices are going down because the value of the currency is going up, then one is still transferring the same value to the seller at a lower price. Why would a seller sell a good or service now, when they can sell it in the future for more dollars? 

But besides that, crypto does not have to be deflationary. Ether is inflationary.

When I referred to crypto being deflationary, I didn't mean its supply being deflationary or otherwise. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin is also inflationary, at least if we discard the high probability that right now the total number of coins available for trade and commerce is diminishing due to "wear and tear" (coins being lost, stuck as dust, burned alive, etc). I use the term deflationary in a broader sense of not being able or sufficient to satisfy the needs of a growing economy. Whoever tries to challenge this point (that there should be enough monetary supply to support such growth at all times) is either clueless (ok, let's call them poorly informed to not overstep the bounds of propriety) or has something else in mind (read has an agenda).

And no, deflation is not inflation with a minus sign attached to it, though I understand why people think it is. In fact, this topic has been beaten to death already but it still comes up pretty regularly. You bring up the same age-old arguments that have been refuted numerous times even on this forum. A hint, producers profits are non-linearly dependent on inflation (deflation) rates, so deflation is directly destructive to an economy and that has nothing to do with its predictability or lack thereof.

I think you are the one that needs to review your economics. I hope this doesn't come off negatively.

There are only 2 contexts in which inflation/deflation are used - in the traditional economic sense, and to refer to an increasing or decreasing supply of the currency (which is a new use since crypto came into the mainstream). Bitcoin is deflationary in both of these completely different definitions. When you say that "strictly speaking", bitcoin is inflationary, I can only assume that you mean that the supply is currently increasing? That would be correct, but I was looking at long-term outcomes and whether it is economically viable.

To use deflation to mean anything else is just wrong. You say "deflationary in a broader sense of not being able or sufficient to satisfy the needs of a growing economy". That is a very common misconception in economics. "That there should be enough monetary supply to support such growth at all times" is flat out wrong. Economic growth is based on productivity and is not held back by monetary supply. This specific argument you make was analyzed in great detail and refuted in Rothbard's book The Mystery of Banking. I'm sure you will find the refutation in many other books/places as well.

Producers profits are not dependent on inflation rates. I'd like to know what your source on that is. And any references on this forum I'd be happy to look at. Inflation/deflation are monetary phenomenon. Have you studied Nobel Prize winner Milton Friedman's books/discussions on monetary policy and inflation?

There is a common notion that deflation is directly bad for the economy because in the inflationary milieu created by the Fed, deflation has only occurred in depressions. That is due to idiosyncracies of the current system, not inherent negative features of deflation.

Even look at books by Charles Wheelan. He goes over why the problem is not inflation/deflation, but unexpected deflation/inflation. 

newbie
Activity: 224
Merit: 0
Yes ofcourse, even if the future is long I know that fiat will be a very useful tool for payment. Since some people does not know on how to use computers which is the disadvantage of having mo fiat money.
full member
Activity: 742
Merit: 144
Fiat currency is for sure necessary for our day to day transactions.It is the most trusted and safest way to do our transactions.It can used in a mall and even in a small store where we don't have internet connectivity for digital transactions.So yes fiat currency is necessary in the world.

I used to live with fiat money for almost 25yrs of my life, fiat money is there to makes me more liquid everyday. This is necessary because we need to transact easily, more convenient in depressed area and of course its more valuable for ordinary people. But hopefully, cryptocurrency will have his break in major markets so we can now adopt new changes that can help us to be better in the future.
sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 250
Fiat currency is for sure necessary for our day to day transactions.It is the most trusted and safest way to do our transactions.It can used in a mall and even in a small store where we don't have internet connectivity for digital transactions.So yes fiat currency is necessary in the world.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 515
As much as I agree with the first part of your post about a governmentally controlled crypto being just another form of fiat (since this is what I have been saying here for years myself), I as much disagree with the second part of it where you claim that the economy doesn't need fiat. It was the case a few centuries ago when, as you correctly noted, commodity-based currencies had been used universally. Actually, they were based on precious metals (mostly silver if we are talking about Europe), but this is irrelevant to the point in question. In the simplest of terms, economies didn't switch to fiat currencies just for kicks. In fact, it was inevitable, kind of objective necessity if you please. Hard currencies were an insurmountable obstacle to a steady economic growth, so no surprise that such currencies were completely abandoned eventually.

In other words, the modern global economy, given its complexity and the level of interdependency between its parts, simply cannot function on hard currencies as they will wreak havoc in financial settlements throughout the world if we assume for a moment they get introduced again.

Let's set things straight. It had already been tried and didn't work (with gold as money). Any deflationary currency (gold, bitcoin, whatever) would be massively taxing real economy. People who have a lot of tokens representing money would be profiting from just holding them, that is by doing nothing, from people who actually create goods and services, bringing value to the table. Fiat is not perfect but what it is perfect at is taking from idlers a competitive advantage which they otherwise would have just because they happen to be rich.

There is nothing wrong with using a deflationary currency such as gold. The reason why governments moved away from gold is not because it wasn't working. There were 2 issues. Because they needed to buy it on the open market, they could not maintain adequate reserves for what they wanted to spend on, and they had to pay debts with the value that was borrowed. By moving to fiat currencies, they could tax the populace by printing more currency, hence more for whatever spending they wanted to do, and secondly, they could inflate away the value of debts.

Inflation or deflation is only bad if it is unpredictable. Any argument made against deflation can be made against inflation. Why would one borrow money if they would have to pay back more in the future (argument against deflation). Why would one lend money when they are going to get back less in the future (argument against inflation). Why would one buy goods and services when they know they can get it cheaper in the future? If prices are going down because the value of the currency is going up, then one is still transferring the same value to the seller at a lower price. Why would a seller sell a good or service now, when they can sell it in the future for more dollars? 

But besides that, crypto does not have to be deflationary. Ether is inflationary.

When I referred to crypto being deflationary, I didn't mean its supply being deflationary or otherwise. Strictly speaking, Bitcoin is also inflationary, at least if we discard the high probability that right now the total number of coins available for trade and commerce is diminishing due to "wear and tear" (coins being lost, stuck as dust, burned alive, etc). I use the term deflationary in a broader sense of not being able or sufficient to satisfy the needs of a growing economy. Whoever tries to challenge this point (that there should be enough monetary supply to support such growth at all times) is either clueless (ok, let's call them poorly informed to not overstep the bounds of propriety) or has something else in mind (read has an agenda).

And no, deflation is not inflation with a minus sign attached to it, though I understand why people think it is. In fact, this topic has been beaten to death already but it still comes up pretty regularly. You bring up the same age-old arguments that have been refuted numerous times even on this forum. A hint, producers profits are non-linearly dependent on inflation (deflation) rates, so deflation is directly destructive to an economy and that has nothing to do with its predictability or lack thereof.
sr. member
Activity: 588
Merit: 254
Well no doubt that crypto has every sophisticated system what a common man expect from it but apart from it like everything it has it's own positive and negative aspects. Crypto is convenient for long distance transactions but for a direct face to face payment or for on the spot payment it is not suitable.
It needs a device for both the parties to send and receive payment also it will need a transaction fee for every little bit transaction which is not practical at all. Therefore fiat is best for such kind of payments. Like cryptocurrency we can't deny that fiat resistance is needed.
full member
Activity: 378
Merit: 100
ADAB ADAB ADAB ADAB
in the future, will there really be a need for fiat currency? Government can collect taxes in crypto, determine how to allocate it, and spend it in crypto. Ppl can receive salaries and do all commerce using crypto. Loans can be done in crypto. Fundraising can be in crypto. Sure, problems have to be worked out in terms of scalability, does it have to be completely decentralized, etc, the value has to become more stable. But theoretically, is there any reason to have fiat in the future?

It has been established that governments can now do taxation without representation by printing more money (which is a tax on everyone holding the currency), instead of trying to get a bill passed that allows it to increase the tax rate. With crypto this would be no more. All increased taxation would have to pass a vote.

From an economic standpoint, the idea that a country can stimulate its economy by adjusting interest rates is tenuous. There is just as strong an argument that lowering interest rates has caused speculation and bubbles, with calamitous results. In a crypto market economy, capital will flow from where it is needed less to where it is needed more.

Fiat is only necessary because not every people is capable on investing on cryptocurrency, that is the reason why people should not fully commit to cryptocurrency and still use fiat as of the moment.
newbie
Activity: 63
Merit: 0
in the future, will there really be a need for fiat currency? Government can collect taxes in crypto, determine how to allocate it, and spend it in crypto. Ppl can receive salaries and do all commerce using crypto. Loans can be done in crypto. Fundraising can be in crypto. Sure, problems have to be worked out in terms of scalability, does it have to be completely decentralized, etc, the value has to become more stable. But theoretically, is there any reason to have fiat in the future?

It has been established that governments can now do taxation without representation by printing more money (which is a tax on everyone holding the currency), instead of trying to get a bill passed that allows it to increase the tax rate. With crypto this would be no more. All increased taxation would have to pass a vote.

From an economic standpoint, the idea that a country can stimulate its economy by adjusting interest rates is tenuous. There is just as strong an argument that lowering interest rates has caused speculation and bubbles, with calamitous results. In a crypto market economy, capital will flow from where it is needed less to where it is needed more.

I don't think world really need fiat currency, it can be changed by other currency such cryptocurrency in future or maybe newly created currency. But like you know, transaction using cryptocurrency need internet, not every country have good connection and some people maybe not know about it, so if cryptocurrency can solve this problem first, they might be the real future currency.
sr. member
Activity: 503
Merit: 286
yes just like the gold times during the old days, remember gold is valuable up to now and let us not forget the fact that there is still a lot of countries or part of countries that don't have electricity.
But gold and fiat isn't the same thing. Gold, silver, copper, and bronze were used as a currency before because they are precious metals and have to be mined. It serves actual purpose. These metals have their different uses and they are also priced on their scarcity. Fiat, on the other hand, is literally just paper. The only thing that gives it value is the belief of the people that it has a value. But when it comes to its use as the material that it is, it's just paper, nothing else. It's not like gold which can be used in the components of our devices. It's not a good electricity conductor either. Sadly but this meme posted by @nikflossus on Steemit is so true:


Fiat currencies are important to every country and the whole world. Not all areas around the globe can enjoy using crypto as a medium of exchange since not all are countries are having advanced technologies. Cryptocurrencies can only be accessed if have the electricity and internet connections. So to those areas having none, then crypto is useless unlike fiat money as long as you have it in your hands with or with electricity and internet connections you can use it anytime and anywhere.
But the thing about fiat is that once people start using cryptocurrency and you're left with fiat, you're basically left with a piece of paper. Its value is based on our belief that it has value (like I said), so once that belief is gone or is moved to a different medium, then fiat loses its power and goes back to what it actually is, a piece of paper.

This is a very good point, because while I believed fiat might be necessary because of electricity use, now I see that it is not necessary. People could use crypto + gold (as a backup when electricity goes down, or for small purchases). Or even other commodities like silver could replace fiat currency in the presence of crypto.
sr. member
Activity: 896
Merit: 250
Yes fiat is necessary for the economic growth of a country even if we like or not. Fiat currency has it's own merits as well. Because it can be use for loans and to pay your taxes physically. Both digital and fiat currency can coexist, both has it's pros and cons and even help each others growth. bitcoin for me is another source of payment that is decentralized and free of control.
That's right what you say, because a country must need fiat currency even though there are crypto currencies, because the fiat currency is still used as a means of payment in buying goods.
Pages:
Jump to: