Topic: Initial Financing for Mining Farm Project - page 5. (Read 1642 times)

Is here anyone from post-Soviet countries who could join the discussion and finally explain why no Ukrainian bank would currently offer a loan in such an amount in foreign currency, let alone provide any documents that would help understand what’s going on in Vod's mind and what he will consider sufficient proof?

Again, as always, no direct answer to the question. Maybe you take me for a fool, and that’s your acceptable line of behavior. I am used to communication being based on principles where questions are given clear answers, or the questions are clarified so that it’s possible to provide such an answer. You do neither.

You neither understand nor try to understand the realities I live in (although I’ve clearly outlined why I’m bringing this proposal to the forum, detailed the steps I took before turning to the forum, and also explained why they didn’t work). Yet, you actively continue to make unfounded assumptions. What made you decide that I think this way? Don’t present this as a non-disputed statement. If you were genuinely interested in understanding how I think, you’d ask questions rather than attribute to me things that have nothing to do with me .

From all your comments, I’ve only become convinced of one thing: the red tag you slapped on me without any justification says more about you than about me. If some users are fine with blind trust in dubious authorities, let them pay attention to it. But for those who refuse to base their judgments on assumptions, guesses, and experience (why you present this as an argument, I still don’t understand — everyone here has experiences that others may know nothing about, so what? Is vague experience now a sufficient reason not to justify one’s claims?), I suggest reading the entire thread and forming their own opinion.

Go to a bank and talk to them.  They will tell you the proof you need.  When they offer you a loan, turn it down due to their high interest rates.  You'll then have enough proof to get a loan here!

I'm not sure why you think bitcoin is different than fiat currency.

You know, the burden of proof that someone is deceiving, lies with the one who is accusing the person of it. As far as I know, in the civilized world, there is such a thing as the presumption of innocence. First, one must prove that a person is guilty of something because false accusations entail responsibility.

Despite all this, I will meet you halfway. What kind of evidence, in your opinion, should be provided? Can you give examples at least? Because I can present various facts, but they still won’t satisfy you. When you speak of evidence, you must have something in mind. It would be good to voice this to add some specifics, rather than just being vague, leaving the accused person to fumble around, trying to guess what unspoken points you're referring to.

Again, provide proof you will not scam.   Words are not proof.

I have nothing further to contribute - if you feel you are winning people over with your ambiguous promises, please continue.  I have left negative trust to warn others who may think the internet is honest. 

At last, a comment from your side where we can really discuss something and not just throw accusations at each other.

So, let’s discuss.

Firstly, if I were in the place of the one being offered the project, I would want to know its essence and the reasoning of the one proposing it.

This is exactly how we as a team communicate with potential investors in person here in Kyiv, preemptively learning who our potential investor is. For example, at our last meeting, it was the owner of a cafe chain in Kyiv, and at the previous one, it was a person looking to diversify his capital into the digital sphere (our project or, for instance, directly purchasing BTC) and build another enterprise for the production of drones.

Since this forum is inherently anonymous (perhaps someone knows you in real life, but that doesn’t mean the general rule should be violated), I write based on the principles of anonymity on this forum. However, in the first message of this thread, I mentioned that we are ready to communicate privately with a more in-depth dive into the data we can provide.

According to Karl Popper, any thesis is scientific if it allows for the possibility of its own refutation.
I believe this thesis is generally useful for analyzing any phenomenon in the modern world of information.

Common sense is also formed based on a methodology of thoughts, which is why I suggest we take a look at the points I’ve outlined above regarding where the 40,000,000 are going, especially the points about the allocation of the 8,000,000 USD, so that you can understand that the overall construction of the farm is quite complex and costly both from the technical equipment side and from the legal and energy side.

I believe that, as of now, you and me don’t owe each other anything (we don’t have any financial obligations between us), so instead of accusations, we can better discuss some aspects of the project in general and not turn this into another thread where everything devolves into ad hominem discussions.

I’ve provided general information, and we can discuss it here in this thread. I suggest you familiarize yourself with what’s written above about the farm’s operation and ask the questions that interest you.

Our team currently has an NDA agreement signed with some counter-parties, so I immediately note that disclosing the location would be a violation of this agreement.

However, questions about the project are open for discussion

How do you want me to provide proof you will not scam?

I only have my experience and common sense.

 

That is only your assumption, again, it is absolutely unfounded; you have provided neither evidence nor any justification. You base your accusations, both in this thread and in your review of my trust, exclusively on your own opinions. You have not explained who the 'we' are you are constantly referring to; I don't even understand who these 'we' are, who could potentially invest in my proposal. As far as I can see, you are the only one who spread all this accusations against me and I don’t see any of your allies in this activity.

You only have general statements that do not answer any of the questions I have personally asked you directly. It’s a very convenient position because you can accuse someone of anything without taking any responsibility for it. So far, the situation looks like I haven’t taken anything from anyone, haven’t deceived anyone, and haven’t cheated anyone out of money. However, you have managed to accuse me of all of this several times, ruined my trust for no reason, and continue to throw around baseless accusations.

Once again just to be clear: you have all the right not to trust me and have your doubts. But I didn’t address my offer to you personally. I don’t wait this funding from you, and honestly, even if you offered to invest in my project, I would reject this offer after all you have written here. You can have you doubts, but if you continue to accuse me of something, please, make at least some efforts to provide some prof.

You'll need to borrow this money from your local community.  They can hold you accountable at whatever level they feel is appropriate.

We send you money, you'll disappear faster than the people holding 500 bitcoin for this forum.    

Your comment is well-structured and indeed raises valid questions and doubts on the topic.

Except for the last paragraph, but I suggest we have a discussion on this topic together.

The number of machines – 3000 with a capacity of 473 terahashes (they haven’t been officially released yet, distribution starts in November) – S21 Hydro XP with water cooling.

Undoubtedly, it can be mentioned that these machines will fall behind in competition in half a year or a year, like Hut 8 machines with more than 800 terahashes per unit (these machines are expected in Q2 2025, but their new chip still needs to be tested on the mass market). However, today, the S21 XP Hydro are cutting-edge machines with significant energy efficiency (5.67 kW/h).

If you do the math, you’ll see consumption of nearly 20 MW (adding in the consumption of the cooling system).

This is regarding the machines, and I believe there’s no doubt about their reliability and efficiency.

In response to the thesis that $8,000,000 is going towards something that doesn't generate financial returns:

The farm’s efficiency depends not only on terahash performance but also on energy efficiency indicators and the cost of electricity.

A large portion of the sum is allocated to provide the location with the necessary on-grid electricity and, in fact, a fixed electricity cost contract (for up to 5 years).

Such locations exist, but in most cases, they don't have an electricity substation nearby, which means a substation capable of supplying and transmitting 20 MW from the power plant on a permanent basis needs to be built.

To have such a location for the farm, the following is required:

- Build a substation (if necessary, which it usually is)
- Purchase the location/plot of land
- Conduct due diligence on the company that owns the plot
- Perform technical inspections of the location

All of this is included in the budget mentioned above.

Also, a significant portion of the funds goes to the cooling system, which is a central element of the mining farm's operation.

Can this be avoided?
The answer is no.

Do we need funds for equipment maintenance?
Of course, equipment often breaks down, especially the new water-cooling system (immersive cooling is even more expensive to operate).

If you believe that the $8,000,000 allocated to ensure the farm's operation is going nowhere, I have no further arguments beyond those listed above.

If you also conduct market research in both the USA and Northern Europe, you’ll find that most locations cost more than $4,000,000 per location.

We have allocated $1,800,000 for this.

If mining farms weren’t profitable, no one would be involved in them.

I hope I have addressed some of the points that raised your concerns.

Maybe he is hoping his winning personality will make up the difference. 

Unfortunately, you have entered a vicious circle here. In fact, you are asking for a personal loan from an unknown investor, so you do not currently have a registered company, nor are you under anyone's supervision (supervision of the relevant state authorities).
In order to be able to expect more significant loansinvestment, you must have a company, while in fact, you are borrowing asking for money to establish a company which will at some point guarantee the payment of profit.

It turns out that you only have an idea, but you are completely out of money to start a business. I would not be optimistic about the realization.

     

Seriously dude!  That's like Silicon Valley level start up money.  Not the kind of money you get for a totally speculative business that relies on price fluctuations of the "product" (i.e. bitcoin) and the off chance that you'll be snagging a block reward a rare occasion.

Just from math perspective your proposed number of miners will produce only 1.5EH while the competition is pushing 200.  That wouldn't even put you in the top 20.  Not to mention, nearly $8 million of your budget is slated for stuff that isn't making you any money.  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but Vod's skepticism is starting to infect me too.

If you think $150k is going to set you on your way to secure $40 million in funding for such a lopsided proposal, you truly are delusional.  Or looking to scam.

It’s very convenient to respond only to the statements that are comfortable for you. Look at how detailed my responses are, and how brief are yours. It’s clear who is actually interested in making his position more clear and who is just a local troll. Good luck in your victorious imaginary verification battles on the pages of this forum ;>
s a side note, judging and assuming are different things. Unlike you, I draw conclusions from the actual words you’ve written, not from something I’ve imagined myself.

Just so you know, I’m not asking for money from you, in case you misunderstood. I don’t recall any specific request from you for funding. You haven't shown any genuine interest, nor have you provided any constructive feedback. I also have no confidence that you even have the amount we need. Considering that I haven’t seen any substantial arguments from your side, I’m drawing the corresponding conclusion about your qualifications. Moreover, I’m not asking for anything. I’m offering something. This is a deal, not charity or assistance.

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By the way, I forgot to comment in my previous post on your extraordinary suggestion to cut the necessary budget by 80% or more. So, according to you, I should be making an offer for $30,000 or even less. Interesting that for such an amount, you suggest taking my last house, the one I live in, as collateral. Who are we, by the way, who will take it?


Clearly, you understand Ukrainian realities much better than you initially demonstrated. Maybe you are yourself from a non-NATO country?

The irony of assuming what I assume...


Shhh Mr. tough guy, everyone knows that already and I'm not asking for $150,000 loan.     

To be honest, I am tired of responding to baseless accusations, as you didn’t even bother to carefully read my initial post.


Tell me, where was it mentioned that the company would be created in Ukraine? Your assumptions live their own life, as far, as I can see. What possible logic could be hiding after creating a Ukrainian company (in a country with literally no opportunity to find investments) for building a farm ?

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I believe, you really find it very hard to reveal the true meaning of the sentences I wrote, that is why you continue to make something up by yourself.

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How can you possibly help me with something if you don't even manage to read what I am writing? Help me with what? Help me trying to understand, where do the assumptions come from that caviar and limousines will be bought?

I see that, judging by your assumptions, you might have had a wealth of experience in understanding how investments work and how they should be managed.

In that case – tell us who you are and your education/experience, and we will make an official request for collaboration with your organization (if such exists, of course). You will provide us with a commercial proposal and explain how exactly investments should be used and, moreover, how to optimize them by 80% and get an official payment which will be taxed.

If you refuse – it will become clear to us that you are the intellectual scammer, who don't even bother to pay attention on what was written and whose expertise does not extend beyond the borders of this forum.

You are 100% going to scam - you've stated as such already.  You won't even try hard as you don't need the project to succeed. 


So you make a Ukrainian corporation, then spend all your money on trips for members of your team not in Ukraine, after saying all your team members are in Ukraine.     If your investor has a legal stand (good luck - ukraine isn't in nato for a reason), your defence is simple - you spent the money as you said you would (hey, those limos out there aren't free) and things just didn't work out.  You're very sorry, but thank goodness you didn't tie your name to it - you can try again. 

If you are serious about building a mining farm, tell us who you are and your education/experience.  Then we can help you reduce your setup expenses from $150,000 by 80% or more.  We can give you advice, help you meet with investors without expensive caviar meetings, etc.   But please don't continue asking for any irreversible currency unless you are willing to identify yourself, provide properal collateral (if it is your last house yes we take it) or provide more than just words.

DireWolfM14, you (and maybe Vod as well) misunderstood my proposal. My team is not building a crypto farm for $150,000. That would be a very small farm, which indeed would not be profitable. We are seeking a first-stage investment of $150,000 for the aforementioned in OP necessary actions:


After the establishment of the company and other preparatory stages, which I have mentioned once again above, there will be the main stage of attracting investments for the actual construction of the farm. For this, we have already established connections with professional investment funds that consider such proposals and are ready to invest large sums. However, they work not with individuals, but with companies. I have already explained that creating the company requires funds, which we currently do not have ourselves. Everything we could pay from our own pockets, we have already covered. Now, to move forward, we need this $150,000 to proceed to the main stage of attracting the Main Investor.

If you are interested in more detailed numbers of the project, I will provide them here to give a better understanding of what I am actually presenting to the community and to avoid unfounded accusations of scam.

If I wanted to invest $150k in a mining operation I would do it myself in my own country and hire my own team.  Even in the USA's the Pacific North West there are plenty of affordable properties, and dirt-cheap electricity.  With $150k one could even budget the purchase of a small piece of land with a quonset hut and pay a mortgage instead of rent, thus stabilizing long-term expenses.

The trouble is, mining isn't as profitable as it once was.  The scale of mining that you could do with $150k is still pretty small compared to the large pools, and the chance of snagging a block is pretty small if you're solo mining.  If you latch on to a pool yourself, you'll only be rewarded for your hashrate.  Creating a pool of your own requires more resources and advertising, which will eat into your budget and reduce the number of mining rigs you can purchase/build.

I think your intentions are legitimate, but I also agree with Vod that you're about a decade too late for such a business to be viable at the scale you're suggesting.

First of all, let’s start with your address to me as ‘scummr friend.’

We do not know each other, so we are not friends.

Secondly, there are no financial obligations between us, so calling it a scam is your assumption.

Thirdly, I wrote that I am willing to reveal my identity in a private chat if I understand that we are discussing a serious matter. For some reason, you insist that I disclose something to you.

Anyone interested can write to me in a private chat, and revealing all my personal information on a public site, which is known for having mostly anonymous users, is contradictory.

I also would like to provide a more wide answer for those who might be interested in our conversation.


How I convince a potentially interested investor in private communication is my business, which should not be brought to the public. I believe in our project and have enough arguments to demonstrate its potential and feasibility. I think it is quite clear that I do not want to reveal these details to absolutely everyone, considering that the overwhelming majority are either not interested in my proposal or do not have the necessary amount for investment.


It would be better if you spoke for yourself rather than for everyone. If you were genuinely interested, you could have written to me privately and inquired about the details. Instead, you are just stating something that is exclusively your opinion and, for some reason, attributing it to other users.

You are an interesting person. For some reason, you assume that I am trying to deceive someone, even though no means have been provided for that to happen. We are currently having a discussion on the level of "talking," not on the level of "acting." So far, no specific questions have been asked or specific proposals made, so it is unclear to me whether there is any interest from your side in my proposal.

However, in the absence of all this, you are suggesting that I should immediately reveal personal information, even though there is absolutely no basis (so far) to believe that this will help attract the attention of a potential investor. If someone is interested in the proposal, they will show interest to the offer itself without my initial disclosure of identity. If it is not interesting to anyone, then revealing my identity will not serve as an additional argument for someone to change their mind. They don't know me as I am either way, but we can get acquaint if what I propose turns out to be interesting to someone.

Your suggestion is that I immediately reveal who I am, even though this is an irreversible action, which may not even lead to the result I desire (and I do not plan to leave the forum, nor do I understand leading you logic why others have the right to maintain privacy while I do not). I believe that accusing someone of scamming requires much more basis and evidence. I have not given reasons to think so, so your accusations are unfounded and offensive.

In that private communication, you will do your best to convince him/her to invest without community involvement (i.e. trust me). If you have a potential legitimate project, tell us who you are.

(If you think I'm crazy - good news!  People will back you as soon as you explain why anyone woulc give you $150K without knowing who the money is going to)

You are a decade late, my scammr friend.