Topic: Initiative to help Simon Hausdorf to clear things @ bitcoin-24 <-- SIMON READ IT - page 2. (Read 22347 times)
April 29, 2013, 06:30:26 PM
I also got my BTC back from Bitcoin-24. I have left some of them there intentionally though.
April 29, 2013, 03:54:00 PM
According to the lawyer,
So that's what I'll do. I'm not taking the risk of the "lazy approach".
Quote
In the Bundesanzeiger the prosecutor office says that all clients have
to claim against BTC24 or Mr. Hausdorf, if they want their money
back.
to claim against BTC24 or Mr. Hausdorf, if they want their money
back.
So that's what I'll do. I'm not taking the risk of the "lazy approach".
April 29, 2013, 03:07:04 PM
Got my btc back. Good luck everyone!
April 29, 2013, 02:47:28 PM
Quote
And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding. It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist. Has anyone called him out on that?
If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.
In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.
He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."
It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.
I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.
I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.
I strongly disagree. We need more transparency and communication from Simon not less. (And returned BTC and EUR as soon as possible to restore some trust.) ( Not supporting government "guilty-until-proven-innocent" AML witchhunt. :-] )
Actually withdrawals of BTC are working for 22 hours (with remark "All of them will be processed manually in the next 24 hours"). Lets hope this time Simon will keep the word. Some people (claims that they) already received their BTC so I am becoming lightly optimistic that perhaps I will be also one of them soon. For fiat, we have to wait.
Absolute transparency when under penal investigation is the stupidest thing you can do.
There is ONE rule that you HAVE to follow when under investigation. Only ONE rule, that every lawyer should hit into people's heads: You keep your mouth shut. Everywhere, anywhere.
I know this sucks for customers. But I do not know how many times a lawyer in my vicinity says "Well, if half of my clients would just shut the fuck up, I'd be a hero lawyer. But the problem is, my clients are idiots when it comes to this."
Ingrain this video in your heads everyone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc
April 29, 2013, 10:56:55 AM
Quote
And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding. It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist. Has anyone called him out on that?
If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.
In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.
He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."
It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.
I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.
I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.
I strongly disagree. We need more transparency and communication from Simon not less. (And returned BTC and EUR as soon as possible to restore some trust.) ( Not supporting government "guilty-until-proven-innocent" AML witchhunt. :-] )
Actually withdrawals of BTC are working for 22 hours (with remark "All of them will be processed manually in the next 24 hours"). Lets hope this time Simon will keep the word. Some people (claims that they) already received their BTC so I am becoming lightly optimistic that perhaps I will be also one of them soon. For fiat, we have to wait.
April 29, 2013, 06:21:26 AM
Quote
And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding. It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist. Has anyone called him out on that?
If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.
In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.
He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."
It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.
I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.
I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.
BTCs were able to be withdrawn as of Sunday night.
I could log in to both my accounts, € balance was still there and as I remembered it.
I have filed for a title (court order for payment) with the local DA.
This is not an act against Simon whom I personally like a lot, but to secure my assets agains confiscation by the authorities.
Unfortunately a probably smart move, but since this should be Zivilrecht, this should be not damaging at all. I hope however, that the court costs won't destroy him.
April 29, 2013, 05:16:40 AM
Quote
And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding. It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist. Has anyone called him out on that?
If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.
In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.
He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."
It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.
I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.
I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.
BTCs were able to be withdrawn as of Sunday night.
I could log in to both my accounts, € balance was still there and as I remembered it.
I have filed for a title (court order for payment) with the local DA.
This is not an act against Simon whom I personally like a lot, but to secure my assets agains confiscation by the authorities.
April 29, 2013, 05:14:18 AM
Quote
And still not a single word on the tens of thousands of BTC he is holding. It is almost like he is pretending they don't exist. Has anyone called him out on that?
If he pays them out now, while under investigation, this would get him jailtime.
In §261 of the german penal code you find a parapgraph dealing with obfuscation of money laundering funds. Sending them out would mean he is likely breaking this law, while under investigation.
He might get lucky if his lawyer gets him out under §258 that says that obfuscation measures are not penalized if he is trying to help himself, but in germany, we have a saying "Out on the sea and in german courts, you are in the hand of god."
It might net him 2-3 years of trials and costs.
I know that it sucks, really sucks donkey balls for everyone who has money with him, but he is an idiot to make ANY statement. He should shut the fuck up and say no. word. at. al. Not to police, not to the DA, not to his customers. And definitely not in an open forum.
I repeat, Simon if you read this: Shut the fuck up and stop trying to be nice to your customers. It is hurting THEM and YOURSELF.
You want them to get their money back? Get your site back online? Great, stfu. And I don't know how good your lawyer is. I really don't. But I suggest getting in touch with Udo Vetter, a criminal defense lawyer from the pirate party.
April 28, 2013, 02:39:52 PM
I got one via email. Check your email!
April 28, 2013, 01:47:49 PM
yeah.. the website said it sent a code via sms, but never received one, and I'm not even sure if I actually entered a mobile phone number on my account (and no way to access the account details now).
April 28, 2013, 01:44:48 PM
Quote
i'm not receiving a confirmation code for the btc withdrawal.. did that work for you?
Yes, got one via SMS.
April 28, 2013, 01:39:00 PM
i'm not receiving a confirmation code for the btc withdrawal.. did that work for you?
April 28, 2013, 01:36:38 PM
Payout of the coins has started. Was able to log in to my account and send them to another address. All payouts are said to be done manually during the next 24 hours. Keeping my fingers crossed. 
Still unclear when cash payout will be possible, fortunately did not have any on that account at the time of the shutdown.
Still unclear when cash payout will be possible, fortunately did not have any on that account at the time of the shutdown.
April 22, 2013, 10:07:17 PM
An English document was recently posted on the bitcoin-24.com domain. It's a PDF which contains the following text:
Quote
Dear ladies and gentleman, We represent BTC 24 Ltd, the operating Company of bitcoin24.com. As you can see the Website and the Service of bitcoin24.com are closed. We expect that this Situation will be a temporary one. We are working hard on this case and we are trying to find a Solution as fast as possible. The German and the Polish authorities and different leading banks act against Bitcoin24.com. Due to that fact it is not possible for BTC 24 Ltd. to use the money or the bitcoins. The money and the bitcoins are safe. The money remains still on the bank accounts, but BTC 24 Ltd. cannot use it right now. We are in contact with the authorities and we will take all legal remedies to change this Situation. Right now we cannot say how long it takes to solve all problems, but we are working with highest attention on this case. We ask you for patience as we change this Situation. We will give further information if it is possible and request that you refrain from enquiries in the meantime.
Christian M. Röhl LL.M.
Rechtsanwlt
Fachanwalt für gewerblichen Rechtsschutz
Attorney at Law
From:Christian M. Röhl LL.M.
Rechtsanwlt
Fachanwalt für gewerblichen Rechtsschutz
Attorney at Law
April 18, 2013, 07:00:07 PM
April 18, 2013, 03:27:37 PM
read this.. and join the other forum, I'm sick of reading all the threads 
http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38&sid=d6fecdf4bffc63f3aecec3cd88ea6cf8
http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38&sid=d6fecdf4bffc63f3aecec3cd88ea6cf8
April 18, 2013, 03:20:04 PM
The username TAiS46 is the same as on Reddit, so it might be him. I can't confirm that of course.
http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f
I'll translate the key information from that long post. This is not an accurate translation, I'm only giving the highlights in my own wording:
"Why was a Commerzbank account necessary?
Because Giropay required a German account. So I personally openend an account and clearly stated my intentions with the bank clerk.
Why was the Polish account closed?
The Bremen (Germany) police called the Polish authorities for help in an investigation of "money laundering and financing terrorism". The account was subsequently closed. On April 16 we supplied our written protest.
Who/what is behind all this? What is going on?
The Bremen police accused me of holding large sums of cash money. However, this has nothing to do with user payments. I promise!
Like most Bitcoin users, I distrust banks. How I handle money is none of their business. The Commerzbank accuses me of the following:
--He [Thomas] intends to use the sums of money paid by customers via Giropay for the purchase of Bitcoins for payout in cash for personal gains. (Intends to use the cash for himself)--
Commerzbank called the Bremen police who seized the account.
What is the current situation
We protested in writing against the closing of the Polish account. We are suing the Commerzbank, because they have caused us great damages.
People what do you think of me? That I'm on some island driving a sportscar living the good life? HELL NO!
I just wanted to build a platform for people to trade Bitcoins. Honestly, if you think I tried to screw you, why didn't I split with the 5 million a long time ago? The authorities don't care when I tell them I'm receiving legal threats because I can't run my business.
The problem is, they dont understand how someone can receive so much funds in such short time. I promise the money is STILL on the accounts and I haven't touched it. All payments are recorded and can be checked.
"
-----
Please be aware this is an abridged and bad translation. I'm not a professional translator, I just can read German well enough to understand what is being said. Apparently we were trading 5 million EUR on his site! This alarmed the authorities who believed to have a case of "money laundering and financing terrorism" on their hands.
http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f
I'll translate the key information from that long post. This is not an accurate translation, I'm only giving the highlights in my own wording:
"Why was a Commerzbank account necessary?
Because Giropay required a German account. So I personally openend an account and clearly stated my intentions with the bank clerk.
Why was the Polish account closed?
The Bremen (Germany) police called the Polish authorities for help in an investigation of "money laundering and financing terrorism". The account was subsequently closed. On April 16 we supplied our written protest.
Who/what is behind all this? What is going on?
The Bremen police accused me of holding large sums of cash money. However, this has nothing to do with user payments. I promise!
Like most Bitcoin users, I distrust banks. How I handle money is none of their business. The Commerzbank accuses me of the following:
--He [Thomas] intends to use the sums of money paid by customers via Giropay for the purchase of Bitcoins for payout in cash for personal gains. (Intends to use the cash for himself)--
Commerzbank called the Bremen police who seized the account.
What is the current situation
We protested in writing against the closing of the Polish account. We are suing the Commerzbank, because they have caused us great damages.
People what do you think of me? That I'm on some island driving a sportscar living the good life? HELL NO!
I just wanted to build a platform for people to trade Bitcoins. Honestly, if you think I tried to screw you, why didn't I split with the 5 million a long time ago? The authorities don't care when I tell them I'm receiving legal threats because I can't run my business.
The problem is, they dont understand how someone can receive so much funds in such short time. I promise the money is STILL on the accounts and I haven't touched it. All payments are recorded and can be checked.
"
-----
Please be aware this is an abridged and bad translation. I'm not a professional translator, I just can read German well enough to understand what is being said. Apparently we were trading 5 million EUR on his site! This alarmed the authorities who believed to have a case of "money laundering and financing terrorism" on their hands.
April 18, 2013, 03:10:03 PM
Hi Michael,
I looked through the site, and again, I have to say, there is a telling lack of evidence. The closest I could come is a GRAPHIC on the thread http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f showing a box that shows Simon Hausdorf signed something. There is an email in the background, but whether or not the signature has anything to do with the email is impossible to determine without the original text that Simon signed. One could attempt to re-create that text from the image, but no one has done so. The post itself is from the site Admin. Perhaps the site admin should post the original text that Simon signed so we can verify it ourselves.
ok, I'm taking the stance "innocent until proven guilty", you not, that's ok, but we need to stop talking and decide on a plan of action together. Suspicions and negativity is not getting us anywhere just by typing it in a forum.
I can't read German, but it seems things are moving, slowly... and maybe the banks are frozen etc etc...
the only way we can rectify this, WHATEVER happens, is by working together, writing the to the police/courts/banks and giving them evidence of our transactions etcetc....
join the other forum, and let's stop complaining and start working on a solution together
ok, I believe that site is altruistic... but anyways...
read this... and keep your eye onthe threads on the other forum... this will only work if we stick together.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/both-bitcoin-24-and-mtgox-having-problems-in-the-eu-179827
April 18, 2013, 03:08:40 PM
Hi Michael,
I looked through the site, and again, I have to say, there is a telling lack of evidence. The closest I could come is a GRAPHIC on the thread http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18&sid=8332b6e8753a7f3084015bd68d3a580f showing a box that shows Simon Hausdorf signed something. There is an email in the background, but whether or not the signature has anything to do with the email is impossible to determine without the original text that Simon signed. One could attempt to re-create that text from the image, but no one has done so. The post itself is from the site Admin. Perhaps the site admin should post the original text that Simon signed so we can verify it ourselves.
ok, I'm taking the stance "innocent until proven guilty", you not, that's ok, but we need to stop talking and decide on a plan of action together. Suspicions and negativity is not getting us anywhere just by typing it in a forum.
I can't read German, but it seems things are moving, slowly... and maybe the banks are frozen etc etc...
the only way we can rectify this, WHATEVER happens, is by working together, writing the to the police/courts/banks and giving them evidence of our transactions etcetc....
join the other forum, and let's stop complaining and start working on a solution together
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