Topic: Innosilicon official reponse to Bitmine bankruptcy - Let the evidence talk - page 4. (Read 7532 times)

For the record, I offered to look over some of the documents and verify 1) their existence and 2) their contents, under NDA if required.

Wow, folks, thanks all for your attention and replies. Many of you have commented on your positive experience on A1 or A2 AISC or Miners from whoever suppliers. Thank you! For those who express doubt and cynical views, thank you as well, although some of your misleading "insider" comments are laughable. Everyone is entitled to expressing your view point. Prejudice, lies, stereotype, misleading "insider" info are all part of the life and part of this forum. That is why I had to make our voice heard.  We took notice about Bitmine letter only just recently when a Swiss Magazine approached us for comment.  We were furious as they lied to deflect customer anger.
 
1. A1 ASIC Intellectual Property Issue. Bitmine claimed someone "stole" the A1 intellectual property from them using no fact but a racial stereotype to imply that all companies in China don't innovate but steal. That is simply radical discrimination. The truth is Bitmine people did not and still don't know a thing inside of A1 ASIC.  Let me put an open challenge to Bitmine: show us a A1 FPGA demo or even a block diagram inside A1!  By the way, the FPGA lab demo Bitmine put on youTube was made by Innosilicon FPGA in the Innosilicon lab and all they did was taking our video and edit out our Logo without our permission.  What a joke! The truth is that Bitmine people have never designed any chip product ever and Innosilicon quickly rolled out a more sophisticated A2 LTC ASIC plus A2 terminator Miner in just 2 months after A1 announcement.  Both A1 and A2 ASIC share the same unique command structure, same customerized package which no one else in the world has other than Innosilicon. Who is the real design team here?
 
2.  Does Bitmine own the exclusive A1 ASIC rights? Of course not. Even Bitmine people don't dare to claim that in legal term or swear under oath. Some "insider" here made us laugh. Bitmine in essense is only a Innosilicon A1 chip reseller. Any claim that Dragon Miner ever got A1 from Innosilicon at lower cost or higher quality at any given time than Bitmine is false and baseless. It is Bitmine 's fault for failing to design a competitive miner.
 
3. Did Bitmine receive A1 ASIC in agreed quantity and quality? Definitely, A year ago, 7 months after 1st A1 ASIC batch shipment, Bitmine sent us a thank-you email on the completion of A1 chip order fulfillment and asked us to support their big mining farm expansion in Iceland. Tested chips shipping to Bitmine consistently contains clear gradation marking (A, B, NG) by the test assembly house. Bitmine was informed from day 1 on the gradation and acknowledged that they received every chip they ordered with the confirmed yield.  A1-2 to A1-6 are purely based on manufacturing batch dates and has nothing to do with chip gradation. There is no excuse why Bitmine did not have A1 to fulfill customer pre-order while 7 months later continue to use A1 AISC and miners to expand their mining facility.  After all, clearly lack of A1 is not the reason why they failed to fulfill customer orders or could not roll out A1 miners ahead of Dragon Miner, .
 
Innosilicon is a reputable company with a decade of proud record of delivering leading IC/IP products all over the world with great customer satisfaction.  A large number of our customers are outside of China and we have employees in China, US and Canada.  A1 and A2 ASIC were all made under extreme short notice with Innosilicon engineering genius while our competitors such as Cointerra and Hashfast failed miserably. Our record speaks for itself and we are very proud of it.  We used to have some sympathy for Bitmine's business failure. But now we don't. They screwed up big time, they lied to their customers,  they lied about A1 intellectual property and exclusivity, they wasted customer pre-order money building risky mining farms.  They can't blame others for their own wrongdoing! That is clear if you read our letters carefully and do your own thinking.
 
Some of you want to see us publish evidence, sure, that is why we came out and stated that we have them ready to help any legal case for the court of the law. Due to confidential nature, our legal department is not yet ready to send all the signed contract to the open forum for outsider's viewing pleasure. Afterall, some of you are not trial judge here and we are not under any legal obligation to disclose legal contract to the open forum to prove our innocence. We don't need to. However, if you have a legal case pending our help (or anyone want to visit our office to read them), you are welcome to ask your lawyer to contact us for our evidence assistance.  We have evidence behind everything I say here and we want you to know that.
 
Again, thank you for your interest and opinions.
 
Joey

I was about to post the same thing.

Well the cocks will be coming home to roost for innosilicon if indeed they sold bitmine.ch grades c/d chips at over twice the market value for grade a chips. Question is, where is the evidence to dispell that?

The words "let the evidence talk" are even in the title - so where is it?

As far as chips the A1 was a great chip.  Companies did make ton's off of it such as LKETC.   The dragon 1T's were great machines and ran without any problem.

I find it interesting the low level posting sladner'ish things.   But I think it is most likely a troll.   I don't see proof they made bitmine go bankrupt.  But I could be missing something.

I just hope they are working on next gen I would like to see what their chip turns out to be.

i personally trust innosilicon. actions speak louder than words, look up what a fraud and failure bitmine.ch became.

As long as you don't post this amendment I guess it's anyones choice who to believe.

Will there be more Innosilicon mining chips in the future?

One last thing I want to point out is that it is very strange that the A1 Dragon miner company along with other A1 clones were so successful. We should be asking why those companies were so successful with producing and selling miners with the A1 chips.....WHY IS THAT? WHY....did every other company that tried to produce and sell A1 miners fail? I am not sure if there was many others but it seems like every company outside of China that tried to produce and sell A1 based miners failed miserably. The other companies I know of that sold A1 miners outside of China were Bitmine of course and then there was one called AMT and I think another called nTek Computers. They all had really bad problems and their businesses failed.

There must be something to that because it cannot just be a coincidence that the companies Innosilicon sold A1 chips to in China prospered with great success and the ones in Europe and America failed.

hmmm.....I am just saying.... 

Oh and I really hope I am completely wrong about anything negative I said about Innosilicon. If they can provide evidence then they can have the right to call themselves innocent, but with just worthless claims and words...in my eyes they are no better than Bitmine.

I really hope that Innosilicon does provide the Bitcoin community something solid other than just their marketing directors words.

I think the bigger thing is saying they kept high grade for local market.   I would agree testing a batch of chips would be a lot of time, and only done if they thought it was crap chips.

Do you have any proof of anything you have said?

Asking Bitmin Why didn't you test IC's before?

They replied:  IC's come in batches of 5000 we cannot open them they are sealed, only foundries knows what they preduce.

Issu is that this grades from what Bitmin.ch said, they were not aware of that. Later only found out that the Reference No on the IC itself was a "code for grade"   A1....-6 was grade A A1...-3 was grade C etc ...

Makes it  impossible to test IC manually 1 by 1 knowing 1 miner 1T needed 40 IC's normal mode and 32 IC's Turbo mode. would have taked how long to test 50 000 IC 1 by 1.

That is a heck of a story if this is true.   Can you go into more details?

I mean it seems customer would have the chips before they could test.   If they shipped grade based on region that is a huge thing to suggest.

Clarifying:

First would like to  say Hi to "A" Innosilicon" and to G&C Bitmin.ch.  W

What am about to say will definitely get some ppls upset, even though am trying to stay neutral and anonymous, some ppls might have clue who is writing those lines.

The fact is that YES InnoSilicon indeed manufactured (well they didn't Taiwan foundry did ) grade A,B,C,D they HAVE INDEED provided on purpose grade "D" IC's to Bitmain.ch.

they sold grade "A" in China local market and were laughing about it saying "you want buy from Swiss guys go ahead we only gave them Grade "D" IC's all grade "A" were sold locally and at a extremely low price to a HUGH local reseller (which no need to state the name here but all know who am talking about)that kept the biggest part of the market.

They actually sold IC to this Chinese manufacturer about 2,3 times cheaper than they sold to Bitmain.ch.

They have "demonstrated " to Chinese customer how to test IC, saw demonstration in my own EYE.

Test Procedure:  "put multimeter on NEUTRAL, use one side  of the multimeter on the outside of the IC other end  inside the IC if the result is less than 0.4 IC is shit. etc ...

Mr "A"  is a clever guy my opinion is that they used Swiss money when they freshly graduated from University in Wuhan once they saw the potential and the advantage they had they decided "F.. it" we will make much more money if selling ourselves" cmon guys you know China "no pattern no NDA nothing works when it's not between 2 Chinese companies.

conclusion:  Swiss made a Hugh mistake ignoring China potential market for BTC back than, they thought EU, USA, AU all markets but didn't think about China.

InnoSilicon mistake: too young too greedy, could have given a share of the cake to the Swiss that originally put the money on the table (even though is true wasn't their own money was poor pre-order ppls money) on the other end Swiss for sure would have done EXACTLY same thing so no need feel sorry for them

1 question to Mr "A" Innosilicon:

BEFORE the Swiss Bitmin.ch came to you how much money did you have in your own bank account??? enough to launch NANOTECHNOLOGY 28NM in Taiwan foundries??? or you are saying you guys have a foundry capable of 28NM Tech in your back garden
all are wrong Bitmin.ch using other peoples money gambling with money that didn't belong to them.

Is funny in my opinion Bitmin are upset coz they played innocent ppls and they got played themselves

no one is honest 100% in this BTC business which is why it could profit so much money, it's a rule the fastest you make money the fastest you will loose it.

Conclusion: ALL of those manufacturer, developers, Foundries, didn't suffer nothing from all this,  those who really suffered are those poor guys that had some small savings aside like 2-3k$ decide will invest in BTC hoping they will make some money.  They are I suppose millions of poor ppls that lost a small amount in the eyes of InnoSilicon & Bitmin.ch but for them it may have meant a lot. all of those out there who used innocent ppls money, if you believe in luck what you all did to those poor ppls in the end will come back to you "What goes around, comes around"

Sorry for all those poor people out there still waiting for their Miners wherever they  bought them from  , KNC miners, Black Arrow (no comments , and those poor ppls that have used miners for 2 months than have it sitting in their garage coz it will never reach ROI and made them lose money instead.

Only small regards goes in my opinion to SpoonDoolies-Tech they always have been quite honest, but than again never did any deals with them.

that's all ... for now

They withstood a lot on miners.  The dragon 1T in many places was put in it's paces and amazingly it seemed to keep ticking.   It was a great miner in it's time.

Only weakness was they went with low quality PSU, but I can't blame them to much for that I'm sure it was a business decision.

I was pleased with my A2 based machines as well.

IS, do you intend to publish said evidence?

I have had nothing but good results from machines using the A1 chip.  Thank you so much for your efforts and please get us some new chips and partners for next gen machines.

On behalf of Innosilicon Inc, the proud real owner of A1 BTC ASIC and A2 LTC ASIC, I would like to make it clear that we are very shocked to learn that Bitmine shamelessly pointed their finger to us for their business failure due to a series of their own engineering mishaps and reckless business risk taking. Innosilicon has done nothing wrong here and we continue to deliver our quality product even till this date. We have full evidence (email exchanges, legal contract, shipping record, business plans, apology letters etc) that Bitmine management tried to use Innosilicon as scapegoat to mislead their customers for their failure to fulfill their customer orders. We would like to provide full evidence to assist those who filed lawsuit against Bitmine. Our contact info is listed below and let us suit Bitmine liars. The world deserves to know the truth.


1. A1 chip came out on time and working. Chips were fully delivered at normal 28nm foundry yield to Bitmine with Bitmine CEO email acknowledgement and appreciation. Full amount of ASIC were delivered and tested with clear grade marking and there is no excuse for Bitmine not to deliver their mining machines. It is Bitmine who failed to turn working A1 into good miners to customers. In fact, they received our 1st batch of over 50K A1 chips at cost in early January of 2014 yet failed to produce working miners till April, at that time, BTC market was very hot and miners were in huge demand yet they failed to capitalize. Even then, Bitmine A1 Miner system was reported still not stable which is the biggest reason why they missed market windows. In these two critical months they received another over big batch of low price chips ahead of anyone which were enough to fulfill their customer miner orders. The only reason of their failure to produce miners were their system PCB design and DCDC design flaws. This is due to their poor engineering issues, thus wasted a lot of money by making tons of failed circuit boards, not due to our A1 chip issue. They are the one who is responsible for the failure of customer delivery. In the meantime, another Chinese miner manufacturer Dragon Miner came in after them and started to deliver working miners in late Feb and quickly ramped up very high volume with A1 directly purchasing from us with much higher cost month after month. On the other hand, Bitmine sat with the piles of working A1 chips and could not produce working miners. Yet they shamelessly blamed on all their failure on Innosilicon!

2. Innosilicon never violated any agreement therefore Bitmine knew they could not even think of legal battle. The A1 project became joint investment in Oct 2013 when they could not fund the project by following the previous contract funding terms. So they asked Innosilicon to step in to fund half of the mask fee with a contract amendment where it stated that Innosilicon have the full rights to sell the chips in the open market and Bitmine does not have the exclusive rights of the ASIC. If you read the amendment, you will see that why they absolutely don't deserve the exclusive rights for A1 chip. They were not forced to enter the agreement amendment, they should thank us for the investment to save the whole project.


3. The reason why Bitmine had to apologize to Innosilicon with offical letter is that they themselves later violated the contract amendment by falsely declaring to the whole community that Bitmine own the exclusive rights of A1 and threaten lawsuit against anyone who buy A1 Chip from Innosilicon directly. Obviously this was totally false and the breach of our amendment and they had to apologize or facing lawsuit.


4. We have every evidence to show that Innosilicon developed and own 100% of the A1 ASIC intellectual property and our company is a world renown IP company with excellent ASIC design skills. Innosilicon not only independently developed 28nm A1 BTC ASIC, it also quickly developed A2 LTC ASIC. Both quickly became No. 1 in the market. Our business is all over the world and enjoy stellar reputation with zero complaint from anyone. Protecting IP rights is of paramount importance to our company and we never had any design IP from Bitmine. Bitmine was previously only 2 person company who had zero chip design experience. Can you believe that Bitmine could develop most advanced ASIC with their background? We stated in the contract that any design contribution from each company belongs to each company. Bitmine has zero actual ASIC design contribution in the chip. All they did was to provide us their system input and output files for us to simulate our design.


5. If you ask us, we have a lot to say why Bitmine failed  to keep their promise to us and to their customers. 1st, Bitmine used the pre-order money from customers to build/purchase their own mining farms (tried one in Swissland and one in Iceland) and conducted risky bitcoin trading, in both cases, they lost big money. A1 would have been a lot more successful if they did their job right. I'd to say that the real problem for Bitmine is their weak management on risk and poor technical execution in a market  that is full of competitors and time to market is of great importance. They had 2 months to prepare their miner design before our ASIC came out yet they did a terrible job in that after 4 months, their miner still don't work right and customers were all angry and  they used us as excuses.  I have many facts documented that how they failed so many times before producing a working miners. They made several big mistakes in rushing their production and wasted a lot of materials and chips and made us very very upset. We delivered chips marked with grades according to contract and they knew it. To this date, they still did not pay for some agreed chip shipment fees and we had to cover their unpaid shipment fees.


We are saddened by Bitmine's bankruptcy and failure to fulfill their customer promise. We are shocked that Bitmine management used baseless accusation as excuses to default their refund on their customers and cover up their business risk takig and engineering mistakes. We have every evidence to show that Innosilicon has faithfully followed our contract and contract amendment and it is Bitmine that grossly mishandled their miner design and business in a very unprofessional manner. It is very obvious that A1 chip has been a huge success, on time and with quality , yet A1 miners from Bitmine did not ship on time and with quality to their customers 12 months after. Isn't it clear that who did their job right, who did it wrong?


We reserve every rights to file lawsuit against Bitmine management on spreading baseless rumors to damage Innosilicon reputation. Should anyone need more information and legal help, our legal department is happy to assist.

Best regards,
Joey Jiang
Innosilicon Marketing Director
[email protected]