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Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 38. (Read 105899 times)

sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 02:56:52 PM
What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.

I just answered this question a few posts back. The answer: Nothing is automatically granted to you. Collectively, people, in recognition of a uniformly applied set of laws, and by the power of a state, will grant you specific rights dependent on what ownership rights you have been given for some specific type of thing. This will be different if it is a dog, a sofa, a parcel of land in California, a nuclear bomb, or your thumb. Regulations and laws are key here. I suggest you don't beat or abuse your dog. And I suggest you don't chop down oak trees on your parcel of land in California.

So you're saying that other people grant me ownership of my thumbs as well as my thumb drives? How exactly is that an argument that they are different? That sounds like you're saying they are the same.

You asked for a difference.  You got a difference.  Is there something else you are looking for?

So there's a difference because society says there is, brilliant argument.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
October 05, 2011, 02:55:20 PM
What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.

I just answered this question a few posts back. The answer: Nothing is automatically granted to you. Collectively, people, in recognition of a uniformly applied set of laws, and by the power of a state, will grant you specific rights dependent on what ownership rights you have been given for some specific type of thing. This will be different if it is a dog, a sofa, a parcel of land in California, a nuclear bomb, or your thumb. Regulations and laws are key here. I suggest you don't beat or abuse your dog. And I suggest you don't chop down oak trees on your parcel of land in California.

So you're saying that other people grant me ownership of my thumbs as well as my thumb drives? How exactly is that an argument that they are different? That sounds like you're saying they are the same.

You asked for a difference.  You got a difference.  Is there something else you are looking for?
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 02:49:25 PM
What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.

I just answered this question a few posts back. The answer: Nothing is automatically granted to you. Collectively, people, in recognition of a uniformly applied set of laws, and by the power of a state, will grant you specific rights dependent on what ownership rights you have been given for some specific type of thing. This will be different if it is a dog, a sofa, a parcel of land in California, a nuclear bomb, or your thumb. Regulations and laws are key here. I suggest you don't beat or abuse your dog. And I suggest you don't chop down oak trees on your parcel of land in California.

So you're saying that other people grant me ownership of my thumbs as well as my thumb drives? How exactly is that an argument that they are different? That sounds like you're saying they are the same.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
October 05, 2011, 02:48:52 PM
Have you tried to buy a thumb on eBay?  Or borrow one from your neighbour?

Those are the differences between thumbs and thumb drives, which we've already established are different. That's not a difference in ownership.

I suppose the key difference is that ownership of your thumb matters more to you than ownership of a material thing.

Yet again, that has nothing to do with ownership.

It's kind of hard to take either of you seriously when you can't even put forth a cogent argument. Let me ask one more time...

What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.

Ownership is a legal concept so if you exclude current law and exclude real world experience, what's left?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 02:47:21 PM
What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.

I just answered this question a few posts back. The answer: Nothing is automatically granted to you. Collectively, people, in recognition of a uniformly applied set of laws, and by the power of a state, will grant you specific rights dependent on what ownership rights you have been given for some specific type of thing. This will be different if it is a dog, a sofa, a parcel of land in California, a nuclear bomb, or your thumb. Regulations and laws are key here. I suggest you don't beat or abuse your dog. And I suggest you don't chop down oak trees on your parcel of land in California.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 02:42:35 PM
Have you tried to buy a thumb on eBay?  Or borrow one from your neighbour?

Those are the differences between thumbs and thumb drives, which we've already established are different. That's not a difference in ownership.

I suppose the key difference is that ownership of your thumb matters more to you than ownership of a material thing.

Yet again, that has nothing to do with ownership.

It's kind of hard to take either of you seriously when you can't even put forth a cogent argument. Let me ask one more time...

What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not? I'm not asking about the current laws either before you fall back on that schtick.
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
October 05, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?

Why not?  There is are differences between "owning" your thumb and owning a thumb drive.  

Yes, a thumb isn't a thumb drive. I'm glad we've gotten that cleared up. Is there any other difference? What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not?

Have you tried to buy a thumb on eBay?  Or borrow one from your neighbour?  You don't need me to list the differences so why ask?

I suppose the key difference is that ownership of your thumb matters more to you than ownership of a material thing.  No-one really cares about not being allowed have a nuke.  Everyone would care about not being allowed have a thumb.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 02:23:05 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?

Why not?  There is are differences between "owning" your thumb and owning a thumb drive.  

Yes, a thumb isn't a thumb drive. I'm glad we've gotten that cleared up. Is there any other difference? What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not?

Technically, ownership does not grant you anything. People grant you the recognition of ownership rights to things based on a lot of different metrics.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?

Why not?  There is are differences between "owning" your thumb and owning a thumb drive.  

Yes, a thumb isn't a thumb drive. I'm glad we've gotten that cleared up. Is there any other difference? What does one kind of ownership grant me or imply that another does not?
legendary
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1001
October 05, 2011, 02:15:19 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?

Why not?  There is are differences between "owning" your thumb and owning a thumb drive.  
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 02:15:14 PM
Because things function more effectively when one does not separate things from other things which are interdependent with each other.

Could you be less vague?

Why would I need to be less vague? I can only assume you are seeking clarification because you're not familiar with how things are indeed interdependent with other things. This only indicates a certain degree of ignorance on your part, which then calls into question your credentials in engaging in the application of your political ideology.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 02:02:27 PM
Because things function more effectively when one does not separate things from other things which are interdependent with each other.

Could you be less vague?

hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 01:59:40 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?

Because things function more effectively when one does not separate things from other things which are interdependent with each other. Blindly placing ownership above that principle is not prudent. This does not necessarily preclude ownership though.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
October 05, 2011, 01:56:45 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Why?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 01:54:55 PM
They are intertwined, but definitely distinct. Version A is undeniable, essentially sacred. Everything that falls under Version B must factor in its interdependence with everything else. If you cannot understand that, then go find something else to debate.

Is a prosthetic limb or a wheelchair A or B? Just curious.

It should be very clear from my statement. They are B. And if you read what I wrote, you'll see that one then factors in the interdependence with everything else. What is the prosthetic limb's interdependence with the host's body vs. its interdependence with all other things? Clearly, the limb's interdependence with the host's body is very high and the limb's interdependence with everything else is very limited.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
October 05, 2011, 01:35:43 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Version A of ownership cannot exist without Version B of ownership. They are intertwined, which is why property and person are nearly one and the same in some contexts.

They are intertwined, but definitely distinct. Version A is undeniable, essentially sacred. Everything that falls under Version B must factor in its interdependence with everything else. If you cannot understand that, then go find something else to debate.

Is a prosthetic limb or a wheelchair A or B? Just curious.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
October 05, 2011, 01:35:37 PM
They are intertwined, but definitely distinct. Version A is undeniable, essentially sacred. Everything that falls under Version B must factor in its interdependence with everything else. If you cannot understand that, then go find something else to debate.

Why don't you just debate what you will do with your property and leave me to debate what I'll do with mine.
legendary
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1035
October 05, 2011, 01:34:10 PM
If you have to choose between 2 harms, take the less harmful one and you are ahead.  For example, if you have to choose between a blanket prohibition on nukes and a risk of people using nukes for personal reasons, the blanket prohibition is essentially harmless while the use of nukes is destructive.  Its a very easy choice.

Castration on the other hand is a greater harm than a STD so again the choice is very easy.  Same applies to slavery.  

I would argue that rape, abortion, the millions who are dying of AIDS, the hundreds of thousands of orphans, and the looming threat of millions more dying from thirst and starvation due to overpopulation and possible wars, are WAY WAY WAY more harmful than a simple medical procedure followed by a few days of discomfort. Heck, we already circumcise. Why not just take it an inch further?
Or, if the idea of cutting of valuables is too much for you, why not ban all sexual activity? It wouldn't be as effective as castration, but regulating it will lead to similar beneficial results.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
October 05, 2011, 01:12:04 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Version A of ownership cannot exist without Version B of ownership. They are intertwined, which is why property and person are nearly one and the same in some contexts.

They are intertwined, but definitely distinct. Version A is undeniable, essentially sacred. Everything that falls under Version B must factor in its interdependence with everything else. If you cannot understand that, then go find something else to debate.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
October 05, 2011, 01:00:13 PM
You are so wrong. The castration issue is not like the other issues. You own (call it version A of ownership, if you will) your body. Everything else is not version A of ownership. Call it version B of ownership, if you will.

We can then break down version B of ownership into many different versions (ownership of a sofa vs. ownership of land, etc.).

Version A of ownership cannot exist without Version B of ownership. They are intertwined, which is why property and person are nearly one and the same in some contexts.

"In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will."
--Alexander Hamilton
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