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Topic: Intellectual Property - In All Fairness! - page 66. (Read 105893 times)

sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
September 25, 2011, 09:41:35 PM
Yes I do.

Money. Mouth.

I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

Please demonstrate to me, by referencing any post I have ever made here, where I advocate the killing of any person.

So what happens when I have a nuclear bomb on my property and I don't just hand it over? What happens when I don't pay my taxes? You're going to send me a nasty letter? Fine, I'll ball it up and toss it in my trashcan. I doubt it will end there though. Ultimately, all laws are threats of imprisonment or death. If you don't understand that then you have no business saying what should and shouldn't be a law.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 09:07:31 PM
I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

Please demonstrate to me, by referencing any post I have ever made here, where I advocate the killing of any person.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 09:06:01 PM
Actually, they have four choices: The two you've indicated above, or move to a country like Somalia, or continue their kiddie politics here in their own little playground. I'm guessing they'll opt for the fourth.

Oh, and we should'nt question anyone in government. They're so benevolent and kind and honest and forthright and, and... they always have our best interests in mind. Riiiiight....

I suggest you do question those in government. For example, a good set of the Republicans in office are quite ridiculous and worth questioning. Same goes for quite a few Democrats. And others.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 09:04:21 PM
So then you admit that dumping toxic waste doesn't fall under your criticism? Great, that's one down.

The point is, A, B, and C refer to things you are not aware of.

Like what? Do you have any examples that aren't so unlikely and far removed from reality that they can only referred to as "A, B or C"?

Yes I do. But my point is to demonstrate that you aren't aware of them. It seems that every time I bring up some real issue worth paying attention to, you, in hindsight, make some statement like "Of course I'm aware of such and such..."

So, demonstrate to me that you are aware of a set of real world issues that you haven't yet mentioned. I'll even let you mine my prior posts if you want.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 25, 2011, 09:01:58 PM
Actually, they have four choices: The two you've indicated above, or move to a country like Somalia, or continue their kiddie politics here in their own little playground. I'm guessing they'll opt for the fourth.

Oh, and we should'nt question anyone in government. They're so benevolent and kind and honest and forthright and, and... they always have our best interests in mind. Riiiiight....
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 09:01:20 PM
You already know the answer to this one,

So, Fred, you never answered his question... what companies are you currently boycotting?  I'm interested in how you're using the free market to shut down gross polluters and employee abusers.

All the ones I'm not currently spending my money on. Nyah!

How's that workin' out for you?
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 08:58:32 PM
I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.

Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.

Let me spell it out for you.

J-U-S-T-I-C-E

It's worth more than anything.

Explain in detail, please.
hero member
Activity: 812
Merit: 1000
September 25, 2011, 08:57:34 PM
Quoted for someone to man up and answer the question.

People on this side of the debate need to stop getting distracted by these ridiculous antics and sidestracks.  Stick to the root issues and make them answer the tough questions.

I'll once again quote myself, and will continue to do so until someone steps up to the plate and addresses the issue:

Quote
So which is it?  Are you going to bring about change by forcing it on people via violence (just like the state that you hate!) or are you going to win over a majority through superior reasoning and arguments (which will still result in your forcing your opinion on the minority, thus concluding that libertarianism is hypocritical and contradictory no matter what way you slice it, as I've said in a million threads before, you can make EVERYONE happy ALL the time, thus you will ALWAYS have to suppress at least some people via threat of violence)?

Actually, they have four choices: The two you've indicated above, or move to a country like Somalia, or continue their kiddie politics here in their own little playground. I'm guessing they'll opt for the fourth.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 25, 2011, 08:23:57 PM
Also, there are no free markets left.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 25, 2011, 08:23:09 PM
You already know the answer to this one,

So, Fred, you never answered his question... what companies are you currently boycotting?  I'm interested in how you're using the free market to shut down gross polluters and employee abusers.

All the ones I'm not currently spending my money on. Nyah!
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 103
September 25, 2011, 08:15:11 PM
You already know the answer to this one,

So, Fred, you never answered his question... what companies are you currently boycotting?  I'm interested in how you're using the free market to shut down gross polluters and employee abusers.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 103
September 25, 2011, 08:14:31 PM
people could vote to allow the juggling of smallpox on front lawns!

That's very true.

People most definitely could vote to allow the juggling of small pox on front lawns.  However, that would require more insane people than sane people, so it's never been a problem.  It would also require a majority to vote to allow small pox to be possessed by any random person.  It would then have to stand up to critic by the judicial body.


In libertardland, anyone can possess small pox and they are perfectly within their rights to juggle the vials on their front lawn - no one can stop them.

You have not demonstrated what real-world advantages your system has in this scenario.  No one in their right mind values the right to juggle small pox over the right to life.  So you're going to have to provide some substantial benefits to allowing people to juggle small pox vials or your belief system will never be implimented.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
September 25, 2011, 08:08:02 PM
So HOW can you justify entering armed into a room where I am (where being so armed is not explicitly permitted)?  You are implicitly threatening me with mortal violence, and I have the right not to be threatened.

You already know the answer to this one, but I'll oblige the inaneness of it anyway. If you own the property and don't permit guests to be armed, the guest either agrees, disarms and enters, or doesn't and is denied entry. That isn't giving up ones rights, it's making a decision about the merits of relinquishing a weapon in exchange for entry. Nothing more, nothing less. It is a free choice, not a forced and involuntary one. Weapons regulation is different. It discriminates based on the characteristics and composition of the weapon alone and ignores the title and property rights of the owner. Completely different animals.

Quote
That's a load of crap.  Boycotts don't work except where the market is close to the production line.  Globalism and outsourcing ensures that any company now can abuse people in one jurisdiction while it's consumers on the other side of the world blissfully buy buy buy unawares - and a libertarian free market would facilitate that even more.  People have been boycotting Nestle for at least 20 years now and it's still doing just fine.  Look at all the bad publicity about sweatshops, child exploitation, people working with toxic chemicals to recycle computer components, genocide in the Congo to feed the cell-phone market... the list goes on and on and on.  If people don't actually *live* the abuse, they don't give a shit.  Boycotting a company is an irrational economic decision except where the cost-benefit analysis (and that's what we *all* do every time we buy something) indicates that not boycotting will incur greater future cost.  This is not so where an abusive factory is far away from the buyer.

I'm beginning to wonder if I'm the only one that has an imagination around here. Sorry for the rant, but why is it so difficult to find another way but the forceful one? I know that justice is not a primary concern of yours, but I'd like to think there are merits to incorporating justice that are just worth it despite some of the kinks. Here's the thing about Nestle. You just made a point that they aren't changing there ways now; this is with your government in place.

There will always be the underbelly of crime in whatever society you live, but that doesn't mean that the laws or the ideology are necessarily to blame. I could write laws all the day long, and if nobody cares to follow them, nothing I believe in will matter. No ideology at that point would make a difference. Humans have to act humanely first. Try teaching spiders to not cannibalize their own kind. It's impossible. Most governments are just another form of rights cannibalism.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
September 25, 2011, 08:06:43 PM
Omg democracy is unworkable because people could vote to allow the juggling of smallpox on front lawns!

That pretty much sums it up. For example, statism has lead to slavery, genocide, war, two nuclear bombs dropped on Japanese cities, etc. The whole "come up with something better" argument is nonsense. Both systems have their imperfections. The flaws of statism are written in blood. At least libertarianism has the ideal of justice built into it from the start.
sr. member
Activity: 294
Merit: 252
September 25, 2011, 07:45:23 PM
Omg democracy is unworkable because people could vote to allow the juggling of smallpox on front lawns!

It's about as realistic as your fantasy scenarios.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 103
September 25, 2011, 07:38:33 PM
Imagine that, reality isn't utopia.  It's up to you to prove that you can offer something better.  So far no one can handle that task.

Only because you stick your fingers in your ears and go "LA-LA-LA".

Justice is better. Even if the entire universe explodes unless we violate someone's rights, justice is better. You have your answer. You may not like it but stop pretending that you haven't been given an answer. If you continue to deny that, it will be transparent.


I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.


Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.


So as long as you have the "right" to juggle vials of small pox in your front yard, it doesn't matter if it kills everyone else on the planet, thus violating their right to life.

Your imagined right to juggle small pox vials > the right to life of the other 6,999,999,999 people on the planet.

Sounds like great justice to me.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
September 25, 2011, 07:18:19 PM
Imagine that, reality isn't utopia.  It's up to you to prove that you can offer something better.  So far no one can handle that task.

Only because you stick your fingers in your ears and go "LA-LA-LA".

Justice is better. Even if the entire universe explodes unless we violate someone's rights, justice is better. You have your answer. You may not like it but stop pretending that you haven't been given an answer. If you continue to deny that, it will be transparent.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 103
September 25, 2011, 05:28:10 PM
I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.



Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.

Let me spell it out for you.

J-U-S-T-I-C-E

It's worth more than anything.



I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.



Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 103
September 25, 2011, 05:27:21 PM
I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.



Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.

We are currently living in a world, run by governments, where millions die from hunger, war, disease, etc.

Imagine that, reality isn't utopia.  It's up to you to prove that you can offer something better.  So far no one can handle that task.



Your scenario of an old lady detonating a nuke she somehow aquired is pure fantasy.

Quote where I said old ladies will detonate nukes or GTFO.



So why don't you show us how having governments solves the problems we have with governments.

You want change, it's up to you to sell me on why that change is better.  Since you can't handle that, I'll gladly stick with our imperfect, but workable current solution.
sr. member
Activity: 504
Merit: 252
Elder Crypto God
September 25, 2011, 05:26:20 PM
I consider living in a world where justice exists, to be a benefit. I guess some people would kill their own mother to save their skin. I can't change your mind if that's your point of view. I certainly won't have anything to do with it though.

You're going to have to define your version of justice.

Living in a world where millions die for a pulled-from-ass "right" for anyone to own a nuke isn't justice by any definition familar to anyone on this planet.

Living in a world where trivial, pointless "rights" like the "right" to own a nuke and the "right" to juggle knives on a life raft supercede real, substantial rights like the right to life isn't justice by any definition that any mentally stable person is familiar with.



Oh, and you still have answered neither my nor hawker's questions.

Let me spell it out for you.

J-U-S-T-I-C-E

It's worth more than anything.
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