Topic: [Interest check] A new funded collectible coin (Read 1226 times)

Hi

Please check the post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/selling-rc-2021-set-1-btc-loaded-silver-only-2-left-5344614

Sent a message via PM over a week ago. Do you all reply via pm?

I like the coin, i don't mind the property rights, but... I don't trust myself generating a private key i always say they should be created off-line with enough entropy and then all the devices used smashed into trash. I think if you provide the holos and leave them as buyer-funded would be a better option for all parties, and perhaps less work. Good luck with the enterprise anyhow and think about making a buyer-funded option in the future.

Nice work man; you were able to quickly take everyones suggestions and put them to work!

Hello everyone!

Final update on this thread!!  

First of all, we thank everyone in this community for guiding and clarifying everything and helping in every step.

• Private keys were generated with a single use PC (air gapped) and single use Printer (using cable) by a single person. No backups. Just a single printed sheet of paper.
• Laser jet printer was used and printing was done on TerraSlate water proof paper(thank you for the tip)
• Private keys were stuck on the coins with the holographic security sticker (one-time peelable)

Here we are showing a single coin being peeled .

• Before peeling
• After peeling
• Video of the peeling process https://i.imgur.com/6UAYUd4.mp4  

(Not sure what to do with the coin in the video as it has already been used!! any suggestions please?)

This is it guys!! We have done it!! With all of yours help!!    

Next steps are:
 1. Setup a website with the addresses (Website is ready, need to have a dedicated suburl)
 2. Create a bitcointalk(only selling on bitcointalk, initially) post that will include coin quantities, prices and few surprise goodies for early orders.
 3. Take orders and start shipping.

Also, few members have tried contacting already for buying, we will keep this fair to all and only take orders after the post stated on point 2 above has been published.
Once again, thank you for all the help guys!! Love you so much!!!  It's actually been a long hard journey and still a part of it to be covered.  

first off .... 12 Grandchildren Wow !

second... hope that loss wasn't to big and thanks for the tips !

Maybe generating addresses the same way the company that made the satori chips is the way which I think was all by machines but yes it comes down to trust again. 

I will say this - coming from a person that creates physical items that use private keys I generate - it comes down to trust. Several months ago, I had a partner I thought I could trust. We set up an airgapped system to generate the keys. The keys would be generated on screen, converted to QR code and then printed - the CLI that showed the keys would be closed after each generation. No file was created or generated to save/store the keys. Once printed they were to be applied immediately to the item. He did several for his own customers. I left that as his responsibility and had him generate me almost 2 dozen addresses (1 for myself and the rest for my 8 children and 12 grandchildren) One day, as I sat and drank my coffee - a program I use that has all addresses I use and those of my children/grandchildren loaded as "watch only" addresses started showing all the addresses he generated for me to empty out.

I first thought he took the funds - in the end, it was that he found our system too slow - and he used an online vanitygen to create the keys - well, the owner of said site decided to on that morning drain several thousand accounts of their funds - of which involved all of my children/grandchildren and my business account.

I was fortunate that he had not done any customers of mine.

Needless to say - he is no longer a partner of mine. And I will trust no one to generate keys for me in the future. There is too much to risk both personally, financially and with reputation.

so as was said above, each link in the chain is a chance for the process to break. If you save the files, the HD is a weak link, if you print them there is risk of someone copying/viewing them. If you trust someone else to do it, you have no guarantee that they did not fuck it up.

If you are going to expect us to accept your word on the issue, then you need to - in the very least - be there for all steps of that private key generation, never letting them out of your eyes, not even for a second.

A good question, logically I think it's a problem, but only if they come to him.

But for me the most important as said above by mintymark is the process of creating private keys, it is a meticulous process and not only during the creation.

what about the intellectual property (IP) rights registration number to a DC character....   or am I being a stick in the mud 

Really guys, you have no clue what transparency and trust really is.

Talking about transmitting private keys across the internet, not disclosing who you are or in what jurisdiction you are abiding by does not inspire any confidence.

A loaded coin, or other unloaded cold storage wallet only has ANY value if the private keys are secret.

If you have made the keys, then the coins value 100% relies on your honesty.

If employees or anyone apart from yourself has ever seen any of the private keys then it relies on their honesty too, yet you are not giving details as to how the keys were treated so we do not know that.

The computer used to generate the keys, was it air-gapped Or are you not saying?

The hard disk containing the keys, you need to ensure this can never be accessed, its not enough to delete the disk, or throw it out, the data remains on the disk and can potentially be harvested. It needs to be destroyed.

Were the keys transmitted to be printed by wifi?  Was the printing device cabled or wifi?

These (at least) are all the hurdles you need to jump through, and then you need to stand up and say you have done all this and will take responsibility for the secrecy.

The point is that the ONLY value such a coin has is through your good name printed on it, and unless you have gone to some trouble to establish this showing good processes and limited spread of information, its quite worthless, a scam even if your personal intentions were good.  Its the secrecy that gives the value, not you nievely saying you have funded the coin.

Were the private keys kept under lock and key before they were applied? If anyone saw these, then the value is lost and you need to prove that no-one did. Sending them to escrow is a crazy crazy idea, the tamperproof holigram needs to be active before you send them anywhere!

Having produced and sold cold storage wallets myself (Aka Bitcoin chocolate containing randomised bitcoin cash amounts) I have some familiarity with these concepts. But the master is Mike Caldwell, and there are many online accounts where he describes the lengths he went to to ensure that the keys remained secret and that no record either accidental or purposeful was ever kept of the keys to the coins he issued.

If your coin is to have value then you need to do the same.

Loaded coins are a great gift and a wonderful idea, but they need to be done right.

Super helpful. Thank you.

Hey

How are you?

Not sure what do you mean, please. Are you saying that you know the minting company?
We want to be as transparent as possible. Please tell us, what exactly should we make more transparent?

About us: We are a small team (from design, economics and software backgrounds).
Coins were minted in EU. Total mintage was 75 coins (25 gilded and 50 silvers).  All will be loaded. We are based in Europe. Design was created using multiple designers (from freelance websites to finally by minting company).
Coins will be loaded using a single use PC and Printer.
We are doing this because we want to spread our love for BTC. Create beautiful collectible coins and provide value for the collectors.
Also, provide a memorabilia.
We have started with a small mintage and if all goes well, we will produce more coins.
Price has not been set yet, because
1. we are completing a website for coin catalogue (for all coins)
2. we also want to add some surprise goodies with some of the coins (Gilded with low numbers) and also, want to keep it fair for all.

Please let us know, if any more transparency is required

We will use escrows for any purchases  and everything


Thanks
Team RC

RealityCheck

I know who the coin-makers are (not personally, but by reputation) that have produced loaded coins. They have one or more of the following: they have public sites and visible businesses, they have a track record of successful sales and friendships with other trusted makers, they have introduced themselves and built up trust in several communities. I've read everything you have posted so far and I cannot figure out if you are intentionally being non-descriptive about who you are, who your team is, why you are doing this, and where you live or if you somehow think being transparent does not matter. It's quite perplexing. I want to lean in and be a customer, but selling loaded coins right out of the gate without any explanation of your work is wild to me. 0.01 Btc is a pretty decent investment for most.

I encourage you to read the very first thread of this forum. It is a multi-page list of all the coin creators that have scammed people.

List the estimated prices ? Or is that still undecided?

Where are you physically located?

Thanks!

Edit - Are you worried about the fact you are using the batman symbol? Also, why batman? I love bitcoin, but not batman lol. I think you've severely limited your target buyers here based on that alone, but that's just my opinion ofc...

Thank you for the Update.
I will help you with the Pictures.


How many Coins are produced from each Variant and what for a Paper use you for printing the private Keys? A special Paper like Terra Slate Paper?
Have you a Picture from a destroyed/peeled Holo Sticker for us?

UPDATE

Hey guys,

We did it. We have the coins.

Coins look absolutely beautiful

0.01 BTC - Gilt silver:

0.001 BTC - Plated silver:

Holo Stickers for private keys:

---------
Following all the suggestions, we are buying a one time only Printer for printing keys (wired) and one time use-only computer for creating keys.
We will keep you updated of the process.

Once completed, we will sell some coins on first come first basis and some with auction. Looking forward to your comments and suggestions


Thanks
Team RC

Having escrow make your keys seems like your already shut out your future and an unnecessary extra step. But around here its all about trust building, fool me once, fool me twice.... etc.

I or someone else with experience could crash course you in air-gapping keys and proper procedure to printing them without keys being leaked.
1 disposable computer -destroy ram+hdd+live usb... when done.
1 disposable printer -destroy when done, drill pcb chips.     -Kinda like HIPPA but take it to the extreme.
1 trustworthy person.(yourself)


You could also offer split key generation on your first batch of coins via an escrowed presell. Escrow holds preorders and releases public keys users generate to you, Then you create a public key and partial private they compile the rest, That way you show expertise on these AND if endpoint customer loses their BTC, its on them not you.

This way you can send a loaded coin out that never had a private key to begin with as the customer holds it. ---this method does however mean resell market for your coin in a 2nd hand source will technically be compromised since your endpoint user is the only one with the key. 

I do data destruction for Dell off lease systems. A firsthand source downstream.

Hello

Thank you for replying.

Sure. We want to communicate clearly. We know how to generate private keys safely. Main issue is the 'trust'.

Ofcourse we can generate offline private keys and load them. But as we are new (series 1),  there will be trust issues.

We will contact MinerJones, once we have the minted coins.

Thanks

Since you're new to this I'd prefer option 2. I wouldn't feel comfortable buying loaded coins from an individual who has no idea on how to safely generate private keys (no offense). Looking forward to seeing the design(s)!