Introducing Cryptour - Fun Bitcoin Tournament | No signups req | Provably fair - page 4.

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: joksim299 on September 20, 2015, 10:16:20 AM

New provably fair method can ruin fun because we are able to calculate the result for ourselves and the other players before the tournament concludes.
Instead of using the nonce of confirming block I suggest using nonce of concluding block.

That was originally suggested by ndnhc as well.

By using nonce of confirming block, it gives more action, as you know the current standings right after your tx is confirmed, rather than just waiting until tournament concludes.

This hopefully creates more action and excitement for the tournaments and the players.

joksim299

legendary

Activity: 2198

Merit: 1014

Bitdice is scam scam scammmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

New provably fair method can ruin fun because we are able to calculate the result for ourselves and the other players before the tournament concludes.
Instead of using the nonce of confirming block I suggest using nonce of concluding block.
I like playing this type of the game with suspense.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: PlayCryptour on September 20, 2015, 09:20:40 AM

Change in score calculation

Provably fair algorithm has been updated for all ongoing Cryptour tournaments.

Thanks to suggestions from ndnhc.

Not only is it now less confusing, there is also now lack of obscured information that only the operator knows.

Factors for score calculation are now:

Transaction ID (txid) of the transaction
First confirming block of the transaction
nonce of the first confirming block
Tournament address

Refer to https://cryptour.com/provably-fair for more info.

With this change, players are also able to find out if they win before tournament concludes. Winning entries are indicated with a check mark with green background (See Pilot tournament for example).

Payouts will be made once tournament ends (closing block is reached).

A word of advice: if your entry is a winning one, do check from time to time before tournament closes to ensure that it is not overtaken!

All existing entries are now updated successfully with the new scoring system with no issues on integrity.

Good luck!

Great improvement. Cheesy

I'm sure you are going to get a lot of players

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Change in score calculation

Provably fair algorithm has been updated for all ongoing Cryptour tournaments.

Thanks to suggestions from ndnhc.

Not only is it now less confusing, there is also now lack of obscured information that only the operator knows.

Factors for score calculation are now:

Transaction ID (txid) of the transaction
First confirming block of the transaction
nonce of the first confirming block
Tournament address

Refer to https://cryptour.com/provably-fair for more info.

With this change, players are also able to find out if they win before tournament concludes. Winning entries are indicated with a check mark with green background (See Pilot tournament for example).

Payouts will be made once tournament ends (closing block is reached).

A word of advice: if your entry is a winning one, do check from time to time before tournament closes to ensure that it is not overtaken!

All existing entries are now updated successfully with the new scoring system with no issues on integrity.

Good luck!

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: nickaizoku on September 20, 2015, 03:18:35 AM

So i just sent payment to this tournament. But how can i know im already accepted in there? Cant see my own address.
Edit: i visit again ur website.. and its says too many direct loop. Undecided

Can you check again? We deployed some fixes just now.

Please let me know if you still unable to find your entry. It should be reflected in near real time.
Note that we do not have auto refresh yet so you will need to refresh the page to see it.

nickaizoku

sr. member

Activity: 308

Merit: 250

❃ CyberNick ❃

So i just sent payment to this tournament. But how can i know im already accepted in there? Cant see my own address.
Edit: i visit again ur website.. and its says too many direct loop. Undecided

WEBcreator

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: PlayCryptour on September 20, 2015, 02:10:29 AM

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:53:25 AM

So I just enter the tournament by paying and wait for the block and luck is the point of this game or I need to do something when the block is near? The how to play page need better explanation there I think

You are right, sir. You just pay the tournament entry fee and wait until the tournament concludes.

No further actions needed.

I guess maybe we need some demo at "How to play" section. Thanks and good luck!

okay thanks for the explanation. I think the demo how to play will be good or something like put picture illustration there. I will be joining this , still many block to go , more than 180 block to go now and still more than 24 hour

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:53:25 AM

So I just enter the tournament by paying and wait for the block and luck is the point of this game or I need to do something when the block is near? The how to play page need better explanation there I think

You are right, sir. You just pay the tournament entry fee and wait until the tournament concludes.

No further actions needed.

I guess maybe we need some demo at "How to play" section. Thanks and good luck!

WEBcreator

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

Quote from: ndnh on September 20, 2015, 01:50:38 AM

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:43:58 AM

I dont get this game really, can you please explain this better? I check the how to play but still still dont understand. I see the first GTD 3 entries 1 paid? is this mean that the other 2 dont pay but have entry to the tournament or what?

Rephrasing it, 3 entries at the moment and 1 winner.

(I had the confusion at first too. Paid means the number of people who will be paid the prize)

So I just enter the tournament by paying and wait for the block and luck is the point of this game or I need to do something when the block is near? The how to play page need better explanation there I think

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:43:58 AM

I dont get this game really, can you please explain this better? I check the how to play but still still dont understand.

Basically you make a transaction to a tournament's address.
Once the tournament closes, the winners will be paid a share of the prize pool.
About 25-30% of the entries win.

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:43:58 AM

I see the first GTD 3 entries 1 paid? is this mean that the other 2 dont pay but have entry to the tournament or what?

Sorry about that.
It actually means 3 total entries so far (all of them paid to enter), but when the tournament closes, 1 will win.

Need to improve on the term a little.

How about 3 entries 1 winner?

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: WEBcreator on September 20, 2015, 01:43:58 AM

I dont get this game really, can you please explain this better? I check the how to play but still still dont understand. I see the first GTD 3 entries 1 paid? is this mean that the other 2 dont pay but have entry to the tournament or what?

Rephrasing it, 3 entries at the moment and 1 winner.

(I had the confusion at first too. Paid means the number of people who will be paid the prize)

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: Harpua on September 20, 2015, 01:26:37 AM

Ok, I might sound really newbish here because everyone is saying these terms interchangeably and I have no idea what they mean... what is "txid" and "salt"?

txid is transaction (tx) identifier (id).

For instance https://blockchain.info/tx/454a97e0951759fb3c570984c9c7e327911f9718e0a393fdb603e8f22e24e8c8
The long random number after /tx/ is txid.

salt is simply a random secret string that is assigned to a tournament.

txid and salt are passed through a provably fair algorithm (think of it as computational process) to turn each entries into scores that are then used to rank the entries.

Hopefully this helps.

Thanks for the feedback from ndnhc, we are actually doing away with salt as will be replacing it with nonce of closing block, which functions exactly the same as salt in my earlier description – simply as a secret string.

By switching it to nonce, it further strengthens the fairness of the site and ensure that everyone can independently validate that we are running the tournaments fairly.

WEBcreator

hero member

Activity: 840

Merit: 1000

I dont get this game really, can you please explain this better? I check the how to play but still still dont understand. I see the first GTD 3 entries 1 paid? is this mean that the other 2 dont pay but have entry to the tournament or what?

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: Harpua on September 20, 2015, 01:26:37 AM

Ok, I might sound really newbish here because everyone is saying these terms interchangeably and I have no idea what they mean... what is "txid" and "salt"?

Txid is transaction id. In this case, the transaction id generated when you send Bitcoins to the address.
Example: 29ff5c0a0fc850df4c89fe2157f26b31fb900a0e3770b8753b7520af2bfebd8e
refer: https://blockchain.info/tx/29ff5c0a0fc850df4c89fe2157f26b31fb900a0e3770b8753b7520af2bfebd8e

Salt is some random stuff.

Quote from: PlayCryptour on September 20, 2015, 01:34:29 AM

Quote from: ndnh on September 20, 2015, 01:23:26 AM

SHA-256 is safe. (as long as you don't use an online tool that doesn't store it in their DB. Xorbin is fine, I think)

Knowing SHA-256 before is fine. But knowing the salt isn't.

Feedback noted, sir!

Working with the dev to switch it to nonce of closing block as we speak!

Appreciate your review ndnhc!

Thanks

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: ndnh on September 20, 2015, 01:23:26 AM

SHA-256 is safe. (as long as you don't use an online tool that doesn't store it in their DB. Xorbin is fine, I think)

Knowing SHA-256 before is fine. But knowing the salt isn't.

Feedback noted, sir!

Working with the dev to switch it to nonce of closing block as we speak!

Appreciate your review ndnhc!

Harpua

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Spastic dead-eyed hound.

Quote from: PlayCryptour on September 20, 2015, 12:50:54 AM

Quote from: Harpua on September 20, 2015, 12:36:13 AM

I'm confused... so is this a tournament based on hash rates? I have no idea how this "tournament" works, so explain it for a newbie please Grin

No, it is not based on hash rates, though that would be an interesting concept!

Cryptour functions just like traditional multi-table poker tournaments, except without cards.
Score is generated for each entries based on txid and tournament salt.

Please check out the section on How Cryptour tournament works for more details.

You may wish to try out the first Pilot tournament for only 0.003 BTC. Tournament concluding sometime in a day or so.

Ok, I might sound really newbish here because everyone is saying these terms interchangeably and I have no idea what they mean... what is "txid" and "salt"?

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

Quote from: PlayCryptour on September 20, 2015, 01:05:28 AM

Quote from: ndnh on September 20, 2015, 12:54:51 AM

You can pick the hash or nonce etc. of the block that concludes the particular tournament (Block 375,480 in the 0.15 tournament) as the salt.

That way, no one would know what the salt is.

That actually sounds like a great idea!

I am also having this thought, of publishing the salt right away and also the position and position (maybe score – but if an entry that scores too high may discourage further participation).

I believe SHA-256 should be safe enough that it is not exploitable, even knowing the salt before hand it is not easy to generate a winning txid. SHA-256 is picked in many places for Bitcoin protocol for precisely this reason.

Nah, publish the salt and people can exploit it. Right now, only you can (I don't think you were aware of it, or you will, but anyway). But if you can make it related to something of the block that will only be known in the future, then it becomes 100% provably fair.

SHA-256 is safe. (as long as you don't use an online tool that doesn't store it in their DB. Xorbin is fine, I think)

Knowing SHA-256 before is fine. But knowing the salt isn't.

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: ndnh on September 20, 2015, 12:54:51 AM

You can pick the hash or nonce etc. of the block that concludes the particular tournament (Block 375,480 in the 0.15 tournament) as the salt.

That way, no one would know what the salt is.

That actually sounds like a great idea!

I am also having this thought, of publishing the salt right away and also the position and position (maybe score – but if an entry that scores too high may discourage further participation).

I believe SHA-256 should be safe enough that it is not exploitable, even knowing the salt before hand it is not easy to generate a winning txid. SHA-256 is picked in many places for Bitcoin protocol for precisely this reason.

PlayCryptour

newbie

Activity: 54

Merit: 0

Quote from: zeraTunerse on September 20, 2015, 12:45:33 AM

I am interested in Tournament , will be playing it when it starts.
How the entries will be made ? I hope you gonna provide server seed so that we can check if the game is probably fair or not.

The tournament ends when the Closing Block is reached. For our Pilot tournament, it ends when block height is 375 480.

The entries are made by simply making a transaction to the tournament address and for the amount of the entry fee.

Score is generated based on the entry's txid and tournament salt. More info on our provably fair algorithm.

ndnh

legendary

Activity: 1302

Merit: 1005

New Decentralized Nuclear Hobbit

You can pick the hash or nonce etc. of the block that concludes the particular tournament (Block 375,480 in the 0.15 tournament) as the salt.

That way, no one would know what the salt is.

Topic: Introducing Cryptour - Fun Bitcoin Tournament | No signups req | Provably fair - page 4. (Read 5426 times)