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Topic: Introducing NFTs for forum members - page 2. (Read 7734 times)

copper member
Activity: 630
Merit: 2610
If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!
April 04, 2021, 12:31:33 PM
eddie13, it’s good that you saw one of the best and most important posts that I have ever made on this forum.  I hope that you didn’t miss my point; it seems that everyone else did, and gmaxwell avoided it.  You could probably discern my opinion of “money laundering” from my older post that I linked about “so-called ‘money laundering’”, plus the use of scare quotes; whereas the real issue hereby is the use of “money laundering” as a weapon for FUD, fearmongering, and negative hype.

To accuse NFTs of being “really 90% cover for money laundering” is worse than a foolish shitpost:  It is unethical.  My gut reaction to that post was a long string of profanities, although I tried to keep my public responses reasonably professional.  For in the realm of anything related to cryptography, vague broad-brush smears accusing others of “money laundering” is like dumping radioactive waste into the yard of someone whom you happen to dislike for whatever reason.  It is a dirty-bomb for public relations.

Why would he do that?  The more that I analyse it, the clearer it is that he was defensively projecting his own issues when he spoke about “massive insecurity” and “blockchain fetishism”.  I am not insecure; and I am the last person in the world who could be accused of “blockchain fetishism”.  I have a solid history of explaining in technically precise terms what the blockchain is and is not good for; and it’s just dumb to suggest that the blockchain is good for fungible but not non-fungible assets, insofar as the use cases of “financial ledger” and “chain of title” are almost indistinguishable in terms of their respective requirements and security models.  Whereas it seems that gmaxwell got triggered by the word “blockchain”.  Perhaps he suffers post-traumatic stress from the Fork Wars and/or the ICO Plague; I sympathize with that, but it’s no excuse for lobbing a dirty-bomb into your neighbour’s yard.

To put things in proper perspective without potentially inviting blowback to a leading Bitcoin developer who is a genius at inventing methods to conceal the source and destination of funds, I reframed the discourse around something which is too big and too powerful to be vulnerable:  “Modern art”.  I claim as fact that >99% of all “modern art” is a cover for “money laundering”.  This is well-known in some circles; I am far from being the first to observe it.

My purpose hereby is to tell people who are worried about “money laundering” to go slay a dragon, rather than stomping on an innocent little mouse.

PSA:  If you really want to stop “money laundering”, then you need to ban “modern art”.  This will have the ancillary benefit of making the world less ugly.  Eh, well, good luck with that.  Write to your Congressthingie, and don’t forget to vote!  🐑


Although we enjoyed a lot on this NFT day but did anyone miss Lauda on this event ?

As a matter of readily ascertainable historical fact, yes.  😿  Straight from Page 1, posted about 37 minutes after the joke thread began:

Lauda has no NFTs.  😿

Of course, I would check.  My intent had been to dump mprep-III at its current low, low price so that I could buy a Kitty.


Edit:  Of course, that makes no sense.  Same problem as with satoshi.  But none of this makes sense.  Smiley

How is it that NFTs are being traded for some users who have not logged in for a long time?  The users themselves cannot list them.  Thus, their NFTs are being passed around like cheap whores without their consent.  theymos, prepare to be sued for intellectual property violation!


Although we enjoyed a lot on this NFT day but did anyone miss Lauda on this event ?

No.

The cats NFTs are in demand and could be the most worthy ones to buy  Tongue

brb while I kill myself Cheesy

Go ahead.  I will not interfere.  For if there is such a thing as a natural and indefeasible right, it is an animal’s right to its own body and life.  In more civilised and rational societies, no one ever attempted such outrageous tyranny as the Christians thought their superstition authorised—certainly no one attempted to curtail that inalienable right of free men, and efforts to prevent the suicide of slaves or captives were regarded as a form of vicious selfishness.

The door is always open, such that life cannot become a dungeon in which we are hopelessly imprisoned.  If the thought of crypto Kitty NFTs makes life seem insupportable to you, I will not do the cruelty of trying to deny your right to leave.
hero member
Activity: 1246
Merit: 588
April 04, 2021, 07:24:03 AM
I'm glad I came back 3 days after this post. I ( still click it tho ) should have come back to the forum a month later fck
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6205
Farewell LEO, you *will* be missed.
April 04, 2021, 04:17:45 AM
Even if it ended already, this indeed was something I can be proud of.
I can say that I have bought a part of you for 1000BTC ~
xD

I am pretty much surprised that anybody found interesting to buy my fNFTs, even if it was for airdropped fake bitcoins.  Cheesy  [I guess that I have to work a bit more on my self esteem.]
So you made my day nicer and I thank you for that.
legendary
Activity: 3836
Merit: 1234
Owner at AltQuick.com & FreeBitcoins.com
April 03, 2021, 10:40:07 PM
Although we enjoyed a lot on this NFT day but did anyone miss Lauda on this event ?

No.

The cats NFTs are in demand and could be the most worthy ones to buy  Tongue

brb while I kill myself Cheesy
full member
Activity: 1134
Merit: 105
April 03, 2021, 04:15:38 PM
Although we enjoyed a lot on this NFT day but did anyone miss Lauda on this event ?
The cats NFTs are in demand and could be the most worthy ones to buy  Tongue
sr. member
Activity: 1750
Merit: 373
<------
April 03, 2021, 09:53:27 AM
that this will end on 2nd April.  Smiley  

This made it so fun and so successful.
Else I expect people would have been more careful. I would have certainly been more careful with the money  Grin (oh, so many BTC...)

Even if it ended already, this indeed was something I can be proud of.
I can say that I have bought a part of you for 1000BTC ~
xD
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2432
https://JetCash.com
April 03, 2021, 04:59:20 AM
Well it helped me to distribute some non-fungible merits. I wish I had been able to spend a bit more time with the system.
sr. member
Activity: 2030
Merit: 356
April 03, 2021, 01:54:03 AM
that this will end on 2nd April.  Smiley  

This made it so fun and so successful.
Else I expect people would have been more careful. I would have certainly been more careful with the money  Grin (oh, so many BTC...)

Only careful with bitcoin ?
If it was in real 1000 btc i would not have spend a single bitcoin on the NFTs as bitcoin is here to stay and NFT will vanish one day.  Smiley
staff
Activity: 2310
Merit: 2630
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
April 02, 2021, 06:39:24 PM
Please allow me to use this image on my compilation thread in all April Fools prank of theymos.

Thank you.

Sure. Feel free to use the image.
Glad if I can be part of your compilation thread with it Smiley
legendary
Activity: 2366
Merit: 1206
🔰Buy/Sell Cryptocurrencies🔰
April 02, 2021, 06:33:48 PM
Too bad it was only one day. Luckily I took a screenshot before the fNFTs disappeared.
Great! 
You took a screenshot before the fNFTs disappeared.  I wasn't able to capture a screenshot yesterday because I'm so busy and I'm thinking yesterday but I found out that it's too late, it's already disappeared.

Please allow me to use this image on my compilation thread in all April Fools prank of theymos.

Thank you.
hero member
Activity: 854
Merit: 506
April 02, 2021, 03:22:55 PM
Wait, so my 1000 BTCs worth fNFTs are gone?  Huh

yup. one class action lawsuit, coming up

25 years from now we will be rich again! well, maybe our lawyers anyway
Oh no please Thymos bring back us our fnft. I was so happy that I had 1000 btc and few valuable fnfts in my name.
Alas good things do not last long. I wish I had taken screenshot of my profile with those fnfts names showing Sad
Feeling devasted
full member
Activity: 700
Merit: 182
April 02, 2021, 01:42:30 PM
I don't know guys how much you enjoy it personally i enjoy it soo much. From my 1000 BTC i bought my life first nft which was v5 nft worth 1000 BTC then i list it for 5000 BTC. But bad luck before i track my sell you vanish the nft market. But truely guys this gives us some fun. And for them who thought that they can withdraw the BTC balance lol. Overall my experience on this nft market with bitcointalk forum 10/10 Enjoying. I miss you nft. And also i will miss my 1000 BTC balance which gives me a kick. Thanks for a wonderful experience-able day in forum.
legendary
Activity: 2296
Merit: 2262
BTC or BUST
April 02, 2021, 01:36:18 PM
Aww yiss, motherfucking free markets!!!


A big part of why NFT's exist is specifically to enable stuff like this-- money pass transactions, illiquid trades booked at arbitrary values, etc.  This crap about art is really 90% cover for money laundering, graft, and pump and dumps.

Sure, it might be fun to spend a couple bucks on a digital title to some art, but the millions (even hundreds of millions)-- being directed at NFTs is driven by motivations far less simple and clean.

Do you suppose that this doesn’t occur with physical artworks?  I reasonably suspect that it is the primary purpose of “modern art”, which requires zero talent to create:

  • Have a brooding bipolar “artist” smear some random blobs of paint on a canvas—or throw some junk in a bin—or take a photograph of a urinal, or whatever.
  • Pronouce it “modern art”.
  • “Sell” it for $10 million between parties who want to transfer $10 million for other reasons.

If anybody ever questions this:  “You are unsophisticated.  You do not understand art.”

I point this out, because I disagree with the FUD with NFTs.  It is similar to the FUD with Bitcoin and so-called “money laundering”.  See also my prior post about this, which nutildah ripped off.

Yes, I have no doubt that Bitcoin is sometimes used for “money laundering”.  Far more “money laundering” is done with bags of cash, shell corporations, layering with front businesses, and most of all, insider connections at big banks (HSBC, JPMorgan Chase, ...).  Are you an old-school organized crime boss with a hundred million dollars to clean in a hurry?  You don’t use Bitcoin for that!  Instead, you call your banker.

Yes, artwork NFTs will probably be used for some “money laundering”.  But it will be a drop in the bucket compared to the monkey-business that already must exist in the art world.

Please, let us not ruin a good thing with Four Horsemen of the Cryptocalypse type of fearmongering.  Bitcoiners should know better than that!


Money laundering is bad mmkay..
Right?

Straight to hell with those evil pricks for trying to hide their wealth from their totally not tyrannical governments..
Burn em at the stake..
legendary
Activity: 3500
Merit: 6205
Farewell LEO, you *will* be missed.
April 02, 2021, 12:13:34 PM
that this will end on 2nd April.  Smiley  

This made it so fun and so successful.
Else I expect people would have been more careful. I would have certainly been more careful with the money  Grin (oh, so many BTC...)
sr. member
Activity: 2030
Merit: 356
April 02, 2021, 11:22:20 AM
Maybe next time it would be better if we can hold the events for a week even though it says only a 'day'

One week?
This will only bring more profit, for the corrupt who rob our beloved NTFs of the forum.  Cool


Too bad it was only one day. Luckily I took a screenshot before the fNFTs disappeared.

This should be no surprise as i already predicted to the exact millisecond that this will end on 2nd April.  Smiley  

Exactly as i predicted   Cheesy

Don't think it will last for more than 24 hours because as always everything will be back to normal as soon as its hits 2nd April.




legendary
Activity: 1918
Merit: 1003
April 02, 2021, 10:36:18 AM
Finally everyone landed back to the earth from yesterday's mission Mars flight. It was great fun on 1st of April and it made me feel like a super hero who can buy what he want but again restored to normal life. 
copper member
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1481
Bitcoin Bottom was at $15.4k
April 02, 2021, 10:19:08 AM
Too bad it was only one day. Luckily I took a screenshot before the fNFTs disappeared.



Haters would say it's fake Cool
not a hater but the photoshop is bad bro.
I got something for you: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lri24Cpwswo

Haters will say it's a bad advice  Cool
legendary
Activity: 1526
Merit: 6442
bitcoincleanup.com / bitmixlist.org
April 02, 2021, 09:29:08 AM
I'm glad people enjoyed the game, and thanks to everyone who spent some time on it! It would've been pretty disappointing and boring if everyone had just gotten 20 random drops and then forgotten about it, but I was happy to see a lot of trading and collecting. I have zero interest in creating this myself, but I think that some people might actually enjoy a fully-fleshed-out, real NFT collectible system similar to how this worked. IMO any decent collectible system should incorporate some sort of art, though, even if the art is automatically-generated.

Say...

You just gave me an idea about hosting an fNFT trading card MMO site. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.  Smiley

It would look even better with ibminer's trading cards which I'm eagerly waiting for.
staff
Activity: 2310
Merit: 2630
Join the world-leading crypto sportsbook NOW!
April 02, 2021, 08:37:28 AM
Too bad it was only one day. Luckily I took a screenshot before the fNFTs disappeared.



Haters would say it's fake Cool
copper member
Activity: 630
Merit: 2610
If you don’t do PGP, you don’t do crypto!
April 02, 2021, 08:29:02 AM
Nullian prediction:  NFTs will disrupt the copyright mafia, by creating new business models that respect the rights of both content creators and content consumers.  In the course of time, NFTs will make copyright economically irrelevant.

I have not seen anyone else mention that.  It is my own original thought, or at least my independent thought.  And I have spent a lot of time thinking about this.

The Internet has been wracked with copyright wars for over two decades.  Where are we now?  After years of “fix your business model!”, the copyright mafia said, “OK!”  Bittorrent is being replaced by Netflix, Spotify, Amazon Prime, Apple Store, et al.—and EME makes it infeasible to build an independent web browser.  The copyright mafia is winning.

I am a content creator.  As you may have noticed, I am quite protective of the integrity of my work.  But I hate copyright; I do not want any legalistic prevention of the mere copying of my own work.  (Consider my forum posts to be public domain, like Shakespeare.  No, you are not allowed to plagiarise Shakespeare.)  —But—well, ideally, I would like to get paid.

NFTs will solve the copyright problem, because they create digital scarcity without restrictions on the mere copying of content.  This the solution that people on both sides of the copyright wars have been seeking for two decades.  This will be the foundation for new business models that you probably do not foresee.  Just wait...



Nullius,

There is perhaps something a bit unhinged about talking some LOL April first thing and turning it into some argument about how wonderful NFTs are.

That is an incorrect characterization of what occurred here.

For about the first 12 hours of this thread, I played along with the game.  I made at least a full page worth of posts about the game—either commenting on it, or playing along with it.  (Some of those posts are now deleted for nonobvious reasons; but they are all in various archives.)

When I later returned, I discovered that someone had raised the spectre of “money laundering” in a way that I would expect from 2013-era (or even current-year) mass-media articles about Bitcoin.  You wouldn’t be surprised at my reaction to seeing that same nonsense tossed at Bitcoin, CoinJoin, CoinSwap, mixers, Lightning (although it seems that only Craig Wright is paranoid about Blockstream helping drug dealers launder money off-chain in Lightning—anyone else?), Tor, or PGP.

—By the way, what would your reaction be if someone alleged (quite incorrectly!) that CoinJoin is “is really 90% cover for money laundering, graft, and pump and dumps”?

After the game was over, that line of thought converged with another.  I dislike purely negative arguments.  X is not bad is weak.  Thus, I added something positive:  X is good!  As, indeed, it is.  Aren’t you, of all people, at least a little bit intrigued by my above sketch of how NFTs could make copyright economically irrelevant?  —My prior post already mentioned some applications which should interest anyone who has ever been a party to a real estate transaction.

Maybe you should consider that this massive insecurity you seem to be showing is a sign that you know or fear deep down that it's not all it's hyped up to be.

In my experience, when somebody replies to a rational argument with ad hominem armchair psychoanalysis whilst avoiding the substance, it means that that person is losing an argument.

Whereas based on your suggestion, I realize that maybe you should consider that (cough) some Bitcoiners have a massive insecurity about seeing other applications of similar technologies.  Roll Eyes

Most criticism in the world is right [...]

Indeed:  Most criticism in the world is right.  Please apply that principle my criticism of bog-standard Four Horsemen FUD about “money laundering”.

[...] and repeating that sometimes similar sounding criticism was wrong -- doesn't change this.

Care to address the substance of what I said, beyond some general observations that I address below about non-fungible, non-commodity assets of any kind?

In any case, if you want to work yourself into a foam about some grand idea that I think is a bunch of hokum-- knock yourself out!  People get off on all kinds of weird stuff, ... whips, chains, dressing up as sexualized foxes---- who am I to judge?  I suppose blockchain fetishism is no different.

This is the key point.  I will put it in technical terms, without the trigger word “blockchain”.

Do you see any practical use cases for applying a trustless (or at least, trust-reduced), Byzantine fault-tolerant distributed consensus protocol for globally resolving the state of non-monetary asset ownership, and facilitating the transfer thereof between mutually untrusting parties without risk of double-transfer?

If you think that my positive answer to that question constitutes a “fetish”, then—sorry, but not sorry:  I will not waste my time with that.  Though I will admit that I have a Bitcoin sexual fetish—indeed, I invented the concept of a Bitcoin sexual fetish.  Specifically, a Bitcoin fetish.  At odd times, I have made various posts about this; e.g., recently:
Fuck merits.  I’m a merit whale.  And what is a forum merit worth?  Fuck merits—I want bitcoins!  Preferably all of them.  For I have a sexual fetish for bitcoins.  It thrills me to hold them.  Days and nights and in the wee hours of the morning, I find myself staring at my UTXOs on the blockchain, ogling them, mesmerized by their beauty...  If you send me your bitcoins, then I will take them away to a secret place where I will hodl them and cherish them and perform with them erotic crypto-rites involving the deflowering of virgins beneath the full moon.  Yes, MOON.  BITCOINS.  ME.  HODDDDDDLLLLLLLLLLLL..... mmmmm...

My puns about elliptic curves were first seen in 2018; they even have an old thread in Off-Topic.  (Several threads; I don’t want to link to the others.)


Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong-- it's not really anyone's concern but mine one way or the other.

Publishing your thoughts on a public forum is a means to concern others with them.

Some here, however, may find it eye opening that I was able to simply paint the list of highest priced fNFT to list whatever I wanted it to list.

I never denied that the current markets in NFTs are rife with large amounts of pure, unadulterated bullshit.  Indeed, I acknowledged that—as I acknowledged that early use of Bitcoin (including on this forum) was rife with bullshit.  On that particular point, much of the early criticism of Bitcoin’s community was right—albeit shortsighted; and much of that criticism was made by very smart people who, for whatever reason, just could not see what Bitcoin would become in the future.

You were one of the people who did see it—to the extent that together with a few others, you yourself devoted a terrific effort to refactoring Satoshi’s... *ahem*, less-than-ideal codebase into a software engineering masterpiece.  Something suitable for more than toy money.  The implementation of a network that can safely, securely handle a trillion dollars in value—to begin with.

Would you have spent the effort, if you didn’t look beyond all the early Ponzis, pyramid schemes, scams, hype, etc.?  Not to mention the early use of Bitcoin for a notorious drug market—
Aww yiss, motherfucking free markets!!!


(I contemplated trading merit for the service of making other people's NFT's very "valuable", but I didn't want to irritate theymos. Smiley)

I actually tried that.  Fun game, eh?  LOL.

As an empirical experiment in forum shitcoin economics, let’s use one forum token to screw with another. [...]  I myself think that this is a bad idea; however, someone will do it, so I may as well be the first.


Had Theymos had a tracker for total value transacted up or transaction volume, I could have painted those just as easily.  The same applies to other systems, not just joke ones. You can't credibly do this with liquid fungible assets: I couldn't make everyone think the price of BTC was $10m/BTC today or whatever.

Tell that to all the small-cap altcoiners who do exactly that, even with at least a moderately liquid order book.  Market manipulation is a thing.

Non-fungibility is not very compatible with transparent market pricing.  Does that mean that the idea is useless? No (at least not for that reason Smiley) -- but it's something people should keep in mind.  A lot of the liberating power of markets depends on the general fungiblity of commodity goods.

The same issues exist in other systems but the actors have a lot of incentive to not be particularly frank about them, in that sense this joke system was extremely liberating.

That unavoidably reduces to a general criticism of non-fungible, and even non-commodity goods of every kind.  —Including non-fungible physical goods, i.e., most things which actually exist in this world.  I don’t buy it.

I think that the problem here is a common confusion:  Perceiving an NFT as a thing.  An NFT is not a thing in itself.  It is an abstraction of ownership of a particular instance of a thing.  The thing itself may be of most any nature whatsoever, virtual or physical—just as long as particular instances of the thing can be distinguished from each other (or there is only one instance).

The hype about “investing in NFTs” commits the same error; as I pointed out, the concept is nonsensical.  It is like saying, “Invest in ownership of title!”—title to what?


Edit:  Fixed typos, and made some small tweaks to phrasing.
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