Topic: Introducing PevPot.com The Bitcoin Lottery - page 5. (Read 12310 times)
Why does the register is optional, maybe you should put the register/login button on the top right corner
I am sorry, but what did you want me to imagine? That you are in no way connected with bustabit or they actually listen to you. I am a bit confused. 
I just noticed you've been replying to me inside my own messages that you've quoted. I've never found anyone who didn't know how to use quotes on this forum before. I'll un-bury your previous hidden messages:
That's what I said.
I was quoting u. speechless.... You were doing it wrong.
Quote
I keep telling you, I understand it works, but it isn't provably fair. You cannot tell what time a txid was generated. Take a look at a transaction up close. It doesn't contain a timestamp.
Each round has a timestamp. You can't see it? And you can't tell what time a txid was generated? I have been telling you all the time. Check blockchain.info. If you have even little knowledge of bitcoin, you'd know how to check the time of each txid generated.I'm not saying that only I can't tell when a transaction was generated, but that it is in general impossible to do so. Blockchain.info can tell you when it first saw a transaction. Sometimes that is half an hour after the transaction was first broadcast, which can be days or years after the transaction was generated.
Can you tell me when this transaction was generated?
Code:
$ echo $x
010000000183e3fe15f5874dae133b8ae1ed5bbeae58f0bf6beecd1ffb4fed8c34f2bfb455010000008a473044022053281a29d107f6ee3c5e0673678c4d245965711dd83321bc2b2cdf5e01f788f6022059219abc99604ca65950776a7bd45c66debb1f0185a9d709c581cdcf169bbd32014104b41d52634460912ca6ca49054a2aaee57c7c3ca1deb00c14984a1087c332b11de9d4098b3147563166b7ffcfd1adbff91320a1312ab1cd843e710379c0a031c7ffffffff0180969800000000001976a91437058d142a1620817b5641534a79edd20013086188ac00000000
$ bitcoin-cli decoderawtransaction $x
{
"txid": "fa3c30c7821cdff2b191468bd5e9314f82d21d8dd27bc5e4548fcf4c512a2cb5",
"size": 223,
"version": 1,
"locktime": 0,
"vin": [
{
"txid": "55b4bff2348ced4ffb1fcdee6bbff058aebe5bede18a3b13ae4d87f515fee383",
"vout": 1,
"scriptSig": {
"asm": "3044022053281a29d107f6ee3c5e0673678c4d245965711dd83321bc2b2cdf5e01f788f6022059219abc99604ca65950776a7bd45c66debb1f0185a9d709c581cdcf169bbd32[ALL] 04b41d52634460912ca6ca49054a2aaee57c7c3ca1deb00c14984a1087c332b11de9d4098b3147563166b7ffcfd1adbff91320a1312ab1cd843e710379c0a031c7",
"hex": "473044022053281a29d107f6ee3c5e0673678c4d245965711dd83321bc2b2cdf5e01f788f6022059219abc99604ca65950776a7bd45c66debb1f0185a9d709c581cdcf169bbd32014104b41d52634460912ca6ca49054a2aaee57c7c3ca1deb00c14984a1087c332b11de9d4098b3147563166b7ffcfd1adbff91320a1312ab1cd843e710379c0a031c7"
},
"sequence": 4294967295
}
],
"vout": [
{
"value": 0.10000000,
"n": 0,
"scriptPubKey": {
"asm": "OP_DUP OP_HASH160 37058d142a1620817b5641534a79edd200130861 OP_EQUALVERIFY OP_CHECKSIG",
"hex": "76a91437058d142a1620817b5641534a79edd20013086188ac",
"reqSigs": 1,
"type": "pubkeyhash",
"addresses": [
"161vpFLDzh83mhSoS2ExQ5bm6489RaLCgc"
]
}
}
]
}
No, you can't.
We broadcasting our own transactions? That's ridiculous. How we make sure it appears right after 30-seconds up and we can pick it up?
You can 'pick up' any transaction you want to and pretend it was the 'last one'. So long as the timing is nearly right, nobody can argue with you about it. I know you say your site picks fairly, but you can't prove it.
I put the algorithm on the site and you show how you can do it reversely. Let's say I do buy a tick and my range is in 1000-2000. So I need a number between 1000 and 2000. And you tell me what exact txid I need and how to generate and broadcast it so I can right pick it up after 30 second. Please show me and don't just talk shit.
I would need to know how many satoshis were bet. Then I would generate the number between 1 and 10000 for each of the transactions I have pre-generated using that number of satoshis. About 10% of them would give a number in the range 1000-2000, so on average I would only have to test 10 transactions to find a 'winning' one. I could test 200 transactions and find around 20 winnings ones, and broadcast them every 0.1 seconds for 2 seconds around the target time. One of them will appear on blockchain.info close enough to the closing time to be acceptable as having been fairly selected.
I don't like the way you talking about other site, like you are a supreme people over us. You are not.
I'm not supreme people. I'm trying to help you understand where you're going wrong. You seem not to want to understand.
It's easy to shout out that competitors are not fair and make them look bad.
Some more than others, yes.
If you do have proof, please show it public. My professor always say to me, TALK IS CHEAP. Maybe I should pass it on to you now.
You want me to prove that your game isn't provably fair? How do you propose I do that, other than what I have done already? I have described an attack that you can carry out against the players to make sure you win. The existence of such an attack, even if you never perform it, is enough to demonstrate the lack of provable fairness.
Aren't you with bustabit and try to talk shit about a competitor?
Want to talk more about provably fair?
I think I've given you enough pointers already. If you still don't get it I don't think there's any hope for you.
Sorry.
If you do have proof, please show it public. My professor always say to me, TALK IS CHEAP. Maybe I should pass it on to you now.
If you look only 1 person buys a ton of tickets and wins every time.
This is interesting. Three weeks ago on the btc-raffle thread, there was a discussion that one could have many different accounts and have bought a huge number of raffle tickets. Some people thought it would be unfair. I disagreed and explained it is kind of like playing a 98% dice bet that no matter how many tickets in a raffle you have, it is never a guaranteed win (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13257007), and "btc-raffle.com" agreed with me. Why do you suddenly think it is a big problem now, especially when Pevpot is provably fair?
Aren't you with bustabit and try to talk shit about a competitor?
No, I am in no way connected with bustabit. I did come up with the idea for their provable fairness - their chain-of-hashes-in-reverse thing was something I suggested to them, and rather than telling me I was wrong over and over they actually listened. Can you imagine?
Want to talk more about provably fair?
I think I've given you enough pointers already. If you still don't get it I don't think there's any hope for you.
Sorry.
You should read more and write less. If there's anything I'm saying that you don't understand, I can try to help you understand it. The way things currently are, your site is open to abuse so it is in your interest to fix it.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
That's what I said.
Clearly, you did not understand our provably fair.
Who are you? Is this the same guy on a different account? Or are you the "brains" behind the operation?
The lucky number is not picked like you site does. It's generated by the hash and total pot. The time the lucky number is generated is the time txid is generated.
You can compare both time on our site and blockchain.info. Anyone can see TXIDs on our site is synced with bitcoin network. it's flashing every second. compare it with blockchain.info side by side please.
I understand. There are multiple transactions per second. You can pick any of them, and make your own. You understand that they are created by regular people, right? There's nothing to stop you from broadcasting your own transactions just when the 30 seconds is up, and then picking one of them as "the one".
We broadcasting our own transactions? That's ridiculous. How we make sure it appears right after 30-seconds up and we can pick it up?
I put the algorithm on the site and you show how you can do it reversely. Let's say I do buy a tick and my range is in 1000-2000. So I need a number between 1000 and 2000. And you tell me what exact txid I need and how to generate and broadcast it so I can right pick it up after 30 second. Please show me and don't just talk shit.
You mind may be stuck with your site for too long. But please think out of box, or whatever. No every site works like yours.
This is nothing to do with my site. My site is a dice game, and so has quite a different provably fair scheme. My mind isn't stuck anywhere. I am attempting to point out what is wrong with your system, and why it doesn't work to protect you or your players from abuse. If you re-read what I have written above you might even start to understand it.
Want to talk more about provably fair? Let us talk here. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.13432301
You should read more and write less. If there's anything I'm saying that you don't understand, I can try to help you understand it. The way things currently are, your site is open to abuse so it is in your interest to fix it.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
That's what I said.
Clearly, you did not understand our provably fair.
Who are you? Is this the same guy on a different account? Or are you the "brains" behind the operation?
The lucky number is not picked like you site does. It's generated by the hash and total pot. The time the lucky number is generated is the time txid is generated.
I keep telling you, I understand it works, but it isn't provably fair. You cannot tell what time a txid was generated. Take a look at a transaction up close. It doesn't contain a timestamp.
You can compare both time on our site and blockchain.info. Anyone can see TXIDs on our site is synced with bitcoin network. it's flashing every second. compare it with blockchain.info side by side please.
I understand. There are multiple transactions per second. You can pick any of them, and make your own. You understand that they are created by regular people, right? There's nothing to stop you from broadcasting your own transactions just when the 30 seconds is up, and then picking one of them as "the one".
You mind may be stuck with your site for too long. But please think out of box, or whatever. No every site works like yours.
This is nothing to do with my site. My site is a dice game, and so has quite a different provably fair scheme. My mind isn't stuck anywhere. I am attempting to point out what is wrong with your system, and why it doesn't work to protect you or your players from abuse. If you re-read what I have written above you might even start to understand it.
You should read more and write less. If there's anything I'm saying that you don't understand, I can try to help you understand it. The way things currently are, your site is open to abuse so it is in your interest to fix it.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
============================================================================
Clearly, you did not understand our provably fair. The lucky number is not picked like you site does. It's generated by the hash and total pot. The time the lucky number is generated is the time txid is generated.
You can compare both time on our site and blockchain.info. Anyone can see TXIDs on our site is synced with bitcoin network. it's flashing every second. compare it with blockchain.info side by side please.
You mind may be stuck with your site for too long. But please think out of box, or whatever. No every site works like yours.
dooglus has been following this thread from the beginning.......
Yes. It's an innovative new twist on the tired old lottery concept. A +EV lottery - did you ever see that before?
He has tried over and over to jump off topic and talk about my site..........
I would never have heard of your site if you didn't start posting in this thread using its URL as your name. Since you are accusing pevpot of cheating somehow (when that's impossible, since it's provably fair) I thought it only fair to see where you were coming from. I found that your site isn't provably fair, for the reasons I have already given.
Just a guess but this guy is a partner with ryan.
I'm not. I used to talk to him pretty regularly, but haven't heard from him for a while now. He's a smart guy and I like his work.
Also dooglus please understand our provably fair before you make false allegations.
I do understand it, and have pointed out what is wrong with it in my previous post. You can't just say "we pick a random txid" and think that that is provably fair. You need to find a way of picking the outcome that is repeatable and verifiable by any third party.
We do NOT know the final hash the game picks it after the 30 seconds is over. If you could just read our provably fair section on our FAQ page you would know this.
I understand, but it isn't pro ably fair. I did read your FAQ, but what it describes isn't provably fair.
What you are doing is no better than using random.org to pick the winner. Yes it's fair. No it isn't provable. You could pick any number you like and tell me you got it from random.org. Or you could pick 3 different numbers from random.org and use the best one. I wouldn't be able to tell that you picked it the way to claimed to pick it.
If you would like to discuss our "provably fair system" please use our thread
I am using the comparison of the two sites in an attempt to explain to you how pevpot is provably fair and your site isn't.
Read up on how pevpot's provable fairness works. Nobody knows who won the game for about an hour after the result is decided. The stuff about "key stretching" is required to make sure nobody is cheating. It's not just there for fun - it's necessary. You don't have anything like it. Perhaps if you could understand what purpose it serves, you would then be able to see why it is necessary, and how the lack of anything similar on your site makes it open to abuse.
Please explain how he is right about my site?
Sounds like you haven't been to the site before. We pick the winning number AFTER the game is over.
Sounds like you haven't been to the site before. We pick the winning number AFTER the game is over.
You should read more and write less. If there's anything I'm saying that you don't understand, I can try to help you understand it. The way things currently are, your site is open to abuse so it is in your interest to fix it.
Can you imagine a way that you could cheat if you didn't pick the winning number until after the game is over? It's not hard. You just buy a ticket, then pick that ticket's number as the winning number. Now can you think of a way that you can prove that you aren't doing that? That's the hard bit, and that's the bit that you can't do using your system.
Also the way you speak about dooglus sounds like your close..... That sends out even more red flags you all are a partner.
I've no idea who cazkooo is. (Sorry cazkooo if I should remember you). The way he speaks sounds to me like either he understands my point and sees that I am right, or knows enough about me to know that I wouldn't be talking like this if I wasn't.
Even if all three of us *were* working together, it wouldn't matter. The game is provably fair. We couldn't cheat you even if we somehow worked together.
Edit: I just looked at your trust feedback and saw that at least three different people have already tried and failed to get you to understand that your site isn't provably fair:
I'll be leaving similar feedback if you don't stop falsely claiming your site to be provably fair. Two ways to do so:
1) fix the provable fairness; make it actually provably fair
2) stop claiming it is provably fair when it isn't
He has tried over and over to jump off topic and talk about my site..........
Just a guess but this guy is a partner with ryan.
Dooglus will probably never get his hand on btc gambling again because of legal issues, even if he decided to go back again then he can switch justdice back to btc and this is just crazy way to accuse dooglus since he is right about your site
Please explain how he is right about my site?
Sounds like you haven't been to the site before. We pick the winning number AFTER the game is over.
Also the way you speak about dooglus sounds like your close..... That sends out even more red flags you all are a partner.
He has tried over and over to jump off topic and talk about my site..........
Just a guess but this guy is a partner with ryan.
Dooglus will probably never get his hand on btc gambling again because of legal issues, even if he decided to go back again then he can switch justdice back to btc and this is just crazy way to accuse dooglus since he is right about your site
Please explain how he is right about my site?
Sounds like you haven't been to the site before. We pick the winning number AFTER the game is over.
He has tried over and over to jump off topic and talk about my site..........
Just a guess but this guy is a partner with ryan.
Dooglus will probably never get his hand on btc gambling again because of legal issues, even if he decided to go back again then he can switch justdice back to btc and this is just crazy way to accuse dooglus since he is right about your site
So could anyone else? YES
But the clear as day fact is no one would. The person who buys 10 BTC on pevpot is ryan. (or his staff)
But the clear as day fact is no one would. The person who buys 10 BTC on pevpot is ryan. (or his staff)
I have you at a disadvantage, since I know for a fact that I *did* exactly what you are claiming nobody would do. I bet 16 BTC on the very first draw. See the post immediately above yours for (kinda rough, screenshot based) proof.
No one in there right mind would drop $3,000+ to win $5
Lets talk about that ok?
Lets talk about that ok?
The pot has never been as low as $5. The early-bird bonus has never been less than 0.1 BTC. I know, because Just-Dice has sponsored it for that much every week after the first week thanks to a generous donation from cowbay, the winner of the first week's draw.
And it seems a little rude to say I'm not in my right mind. I got my money in good and was unlucky not to win. It was a +EV bet. You don't find those very often.
But just because you talked about my site i feel to end that discussion with.
The " bitcoin transaction " hash we use is also taken randomly + the combination of the total "satoshi"
This means its 100% provably fair. Please read and understand our "Provable fair" page before making such false claims
The " bitcoin transaction " hash we use is also taken randomly + the combination of the total "satoshi"
This means its 100% provably fair. Please read and understand our "Provable fair" page before making such false claims
I don't think you understand. The total "satoshi" is known 30 seconds before you pick the transaction. That gives you 30 seconds to find a nice txid that will let you win. Then you pick a txid "at random". That isn't provably fair. How can you prove that you picked it at random as opposed to deliberately picking one that let you win? You can't.
dooglus has been following this thread from the beginning.......
He has tried over and over to jump off topic and talk about my site..........
Just a guess but this guy is a partner with ryan.
Also dooglus please understand our provably fair before you make false allegations.
We do NOT know the final hash the game picks it after the 30 seconds is over. If you could just read our provably fair section on our FAQ page you would know this.
If you would like to discuss our "provably fair system" please use our thread at
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-rafflecom-provably-fair-referral-system-player-vs-player-1312679
Please keep this thread on topic about pevpot
Thanks.
So could anyone else? YES
But the clear as day fact is no one would. The person who buys 10 BTC on pevpot is ryan. (or his staff)
But the clear as day fact is no one would. The person who buys 10 BTC on pevpot is ryan. (or his staff)
I have you at a disadvantage, since I know for a fact that I *did* exactly what you are claiming nobody would do. I bet 16 BTC on the very first draw. See the post immediately above yours for (kinda rough, screenshot based) proof.
No one in there right mind would drop $3,000+ to win $5
Lets talk about that ok?
Lets talk about that ok?
The pot has never been as low as $5. The early-bird bonus has never been less than 0.1 BTC. I know, because Just-Dice has sponsored it for that much every week after the first week thanks to a generous donation from cowbay, the winner of the first week's draw.
And it seems a little rude to say I'm not in my right mind. I got my money in good and was unlucky not to win. It was a +EV bet. You don't find those very often.
But just because you talked about my site i feel to end that discussion with.
The " bitcoin transaction " hash we use is also taken randomly + the combination of the total "satoshi"
This means its 100% provably fair. Please read and understand our "Provable fair" page before making such false claims
The " bitcoin transaction " hash we use is also taken randomly + the combination of the total "satoshi"
This means its 100% provably fair. Please read and understand our "Provable fair" page before making such false claims
I don't think you understand. The total "satoshi" is known 30 seconds before you pick the transaction. That gives you 30 seconds to find a nice txid that will let you win. Then you pick a txid "at random". That isn't provably fair. How can you prove that you picked it at random as opposed to deliberately picking one that let you win? You can't.
Seems like the site owner can just deposit 10 BTC and have a huge chance of winning.
So could anyone else. You also have a small chance of losing 10 BTC. If you want to take that risk, do so. It's +EV after all.
I looked at the site and red flags pop up saying thats what is happening.
I don't see them when I visit. Scan for malware.
If you're saying you are seeing something that makes you think the site operator is cheating, please share it with us. The owner went to quite some lengths to set things up such that it is impossible for him to cheat. If you see a way he could be cheating I would love to hear about it.
I can't help but notice you have what looks like a URL for your account name. I wonder if perhaps you run a competing service. Could that maybe be colouring your vision?
I checked your so-called provably fair system and it's kind of laughable. You use the txid of the "last bitcoin transaction".
If you look only 1 person buys a ton of tickets and wins every time.
Check the first draw. I bought a ton of tickets and lost. I haven't played since.
So could anyone else? YES
But the clear as day fact is no one would. The person who buys 10 BTC on pevpot is ryan. (or his staff)
No one in there right mind would drop $3,000+ to win $5
Lets talk about that ok?
But just because you talked about my site i feel to end that discussion with.
The " bitcoin transaction " hash we use is also taken randomly + the combination of the total "satoshi"
This means its 100% provably fair. Please read and understand our "Provable fair" page before making such false claims
The site is too new for someone to bet 10 BTC on a pot to win like 0.00001 profit.........
The profit is never anywhere near that low. And I bet over 10 BTC the very first week.
Think about it ryan the site owner who also owns bustabit would be the only person who would do that.
I bet over 16 BTC on the first round. Think about it your wrong.
One of the bets was sent from my poloniex account and the other from my moneypot account. I have a copy of the pevpot "Letter of Guarantee" for both deposit addresses.
What you're probably missing here is that Ryan is known to be trustworthy. He has handled massive amounts of bitcoin at bustabit with no complaints from anyone as far as I've heard. I was happy to trust him with my 16 BTC, and am confident that I lost it fair and square.
If you can't see ryan the site owner is the person adding the 10 BTC bet you are blind.
I know for a fact that it wasn't him the first week.
Seems like the site owner can just deposit 10 BTC and have a huge chance of winning.
So could anyone else. You also have a small chance of losing 10 BTC. If you want to take that risk, do so. It's +EV after all.
I looked at the site and red flags pop up saying thats what is happening.
I don't see them when I visit. Scan for malware.
If you're saying you are seeing something that makes you think the site operator is cheating, please share it with us. The owner went to quite some lengths to set things up such that it is impossible for him to cheat. If you see a way he could be cheating I would love to hear about it.
I can't help but notice you have what looks like a URL for your account name. I wonder if perhaps you run a competing service. Could that maybe be colouring your vision?
I checked your so-called provably fair system and it's kind of laughable. You use the txid of the "last bitcoin transaction".
If you look only 1 person buys a ton of tickets and wins every time.
Check the first draw. I bought a ton of tickets and lost. I haven't played since.
I think just a bit unfair like last draw where someone deposited 10Btc and won. Only those who can deposit higher amount has the high chances of winning and if you dont have you are just donating coz you have0 0% chances to take the current prize pot.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
The site is too new for someone to bet 10 BTC on a pot to win like 0.00001 profit.........
Think about it ryan the site owner who also owns bustabit would be the only person who would do that.
If you can't see ryan the site owner is the person adding the 10 BTC bet you are blind.
I am blind lol
even Ryan if would always buy for 10 BTC tickets to win 0.2-05 BTC it is his risk and would be still a fair lottery but it would not make sense because if you lose once the 10 BTC it will be a long way to win it back and he can lose again on the way he wants to win all back. IMO he would be stupid to do so
Its not a risk seeing how he will have millions of entries giving him a 99.9% chance to win every time.
Do you really believe someone is going to drop $4,000 on a pot worth $5?
You are blind lol
I think just a bit unfair like last draw where someone deposited 10Btc and won. Only those who can deposit higher amount has the high chances of winning and if you dont have you are just donating coz you have0 0% chances to take the current prize pot.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
The site is too new for someone to bet 10 BTC on a pot to win like 0.00001 profit.........
Think about it ryan the site owner who also owns bustabit would be the only person who would do that.
If you can't see ryan the site owner is the person adding the 10 BTC bet you are blind.
I am blind lol
even Ryan if he would always buy for 10 BTC tickets to win 0.2-05 BTC it is his risk and would be still a fair lottery but it would not make sense because if you lose once the 10 BTC it will be a long way to win it back and he can lose again on the way he wants to win all back. IMO he would be stupid to do so
I think just a bit unfair like last draw where someone deposited 10Btc and won. Only those who can deposit higher amount has the high chances of winning and if you dont have you are just donating coz you have0 0% chances to take the current prize pot.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
A maximum tickets per participants is necessary to be fair to those cant afford to buy high enough.
The site is too new for someone to bet 10 BTC on a pot to win like 0.00001 profit.........
Think about it ryan the site owner who also owns bustabit would be the only person who would do that.
If you can't see ryan the site owner is the person adding the 10 BTC bet you are blind.