Invalid recovery phrase | Bitcointalksearch.org

redwine49

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 12, 2022, 08:29:23 AM

Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

and the missing word is "doll" but I wrote it "dool".

You should have said that - far easier to narrow the search down to a handful of words like doll, door, pool, cool, etc., than to search all 2048 words in that space.

Yep. I've done it manually before but it doesn't work and spend a lot of time, so I mixed it with FinderOuter like dave suggested.

Quote from: DaveF on April 06, 2022, 07:09:30 PM

Take a look here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-finderouter-a-bitcoin-recovery-tool-v0160-2022-09-19-5214021

Quote from: Pmalek on April 13, 2022, 04:22:19 AM

Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

So, did you do something like this, but with two instead of three or more columns?

Quote from: Pmalek on April 08, 2022, 03:23:34 AM

Correct, I put the word order manually Wink

This post has finally reached its goal. Thank youu

Pmalek

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

So, did you do something like this, but with two instead of three or more columns?

Quote from: Pmalek on April 08, 2022, 03:23:34 AM

Maybe the words are written down like this:
1, 2, 3, 4,
5, 6, 7, 8,
9, 10, 11, 12

but you are recovering according to

1, 4, 7
2, 5, 8
3, 6, 9... etc.

Have you now recovered your coins in a hot wallet, what did you use? You mentioned MetaMask in previous posts. MM will allow you to regain control of your ETH and the associated ETH-based tokens, but you still need something for your Bitcoin. You have now minimized the security of your seed since it's been inserted in hot wallets. As soon as you fix your Ledger or purchase a different HW, you should definitely generate a new seed and move your coins from the one that was imported online.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

just got the wallet, i made several mistake when i wrote it down on paper sheet.
No. 13 instead of 2, no. 2 instead of 3
No. 14 instead of 4, no. 3 instead of 5
No. 15 instead of 6, no. 4 instead of 7
.... etc

Glad you managed to recover your wallet.

So you wrote the words in two columns, and then mixed up whether you should read across the rows or down the columns? Easily done.

Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

and the missing word is "doll" but I wrote it "dool".

You should have said that - far easier to narrow the search down to a handful of words like doll, door, pool, cool, etc., than to search all 2048 words in that space.

Quote from: redwine49 on April 12, 2022, 08:01:20 AM

I don't think it's possible because there are 2 words that are the same

There is nothing in BIP39 which prevents words being repeated, even multiple times.

redwine49

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on April 11, 2022, 04:42:30 AM

So you are going to have to be far more specific than just thinking "the words are in the wrong order". It is possible to test a couple of words in the wrong order, but not the entire seed phrase.

just got the wallet, i made several mistake when i wrote it down on paper sheet.
No. 13 instead of 2, no. 2 instead of 3
No. 14 instead of 4, no. 3 instead of 5
No. 15 instead of 6, no. 4 instead of 7
.... etc

and the missing word is "doll" but I wrote it "dool". I don't think it's possible because there are 2 words that are the same

dkbit98

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 10, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

I just check from my software wallet & bitcoin explorer which i sent some bitcoin 3 years ago.
I named it HW coldwallet, it's unlikely if i used the wrong address.

What if i lost 1 word & words in the wrong order ?

How exactly did you made that backup for your ledger wallet?
Did you wrote words on paper with your hand or you made some kind of digital backup (I would never recommend doing something like this)?
Most mistakes I have seen people doing is when they are trying to invent warm warm again, making their own ''special'' systems with mixing of words order.
Number one rule for backup of your words is to double check if they are correct and working as soon as you generate them, Trezor is offering testing for that and I think ledger has something similar.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 10, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

What if i lost 1 word & words in the wrong order ?

Missing 1 word in a known location gives 2048 possibilities.
Missing 1 word in an unknown location gives 49,152 possibilities.
Missing 1 word in an unknown location and having any two words swapped gives 13,565,952 possibilities.

These are all easily brute forcible.

Having 24 known words in an unknown order gives 620,448,401,733,239,439,360,000 possibilities. Adding in an unknown word is irrelevant, since this is already impossible to brute force.

So you are going to have to be far more specific than just thinking "the words are in the wrong order". It is possible to test a couple of words in the wrong order, but not the entire seed phrase.

pooya87

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 10, 2022, 03:08:57 PM

I just check from my software wallet & bitcoin explorer which i sent some bitcoin 3 years ago.
I named it HW coldwallet, it's unlikely if i used the wrong address.

It could be a right address but a wrong derivation path for example m/44'/0'/0'/0/7 instead of m/44'/0'/0'/0/1

Quote

What if i lost 1 word & words in the wrong order ?

It depends on how you wrote it down, most of the times wrong order is very unlikely but the position of the missing word is more likely meaning it could be the 6th word missing instead of the 5th.
You can pursue the possibly of wrong order after you exhausted other options since it is a lot harder to recover.

redwine49

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Quote from: pooya87 on April 10, 2022, 01:18:29 PM

Quote from: redwine49 on April 10, 2022, 01:08:31 PM

i just used this software, it said

Quote

There are 24 words in the given mnemonic with 1 missing.
Total number of permutations to check: 2,048
Elapsed time: 00:00:00.0303216
k/s= ∞

and stop there.

That means one or more of the following is true:
- More than one word in your mnemonic is wrong or missing
- You chose the position of the missing word wrong
- You set a wrong derivation path
- You used a wrong address that doesn't belong to this wallet or isn't at the same derivation path

I just check from my software wallet & bitcoin explorer which i sent some bitcoin 3 years ago.
I named it HW coldwallet, it's unlikely if i used the wrong address.

What if i lost 1 word & words in the wrong order ?

pooya87

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 10, 2022, 01:08:31 PM

i just used this software, it said

Quote

There are 24 words in the given mnemonic with 1 missing.
Total number of permutations to check: 2,048
Elapsed time: 00:00:00.0303216
k/s= ∞

and stop there.

That means one or more of the following is true:
- More than one word in your mnemonic is wrong or missing
- You chose the position of the missing word wrong
- You set a wrong derivation path
- You used a wrong address that doesn't belong to this wallet or isn't at the same derivation path

redwine49

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 09, 2022, 03:42:33 PM

When you say that you found 1 address or 4 addresses (in your older post), what does that even mean? Found them where, with what?
Since your Nano HW is broken, what software are you using in an attempt to recover your wallet?

Let's get back to the seed word with a typo. Is the whole word typed incorrectly (as in you can't figure out a single letter and what is written), or is one character wrong? Are there some letters of that word that you are 100% certain off and that you can use to figure out the missing character/characters based on those that you know?

i mean i found 4 kind of mnemonic word using metamask manually.
no software before i made this post

Quote from: khaled0111 on April 09, 2022, 05:34:29 PM

OP we need more details and you have to be more precise so we can help you. Let's just forget about the other altcoins and focus on recovering your bitcoin wallet for the moment.
First, did you ever receive any bitcoin on your wallet or you just used it for altcoins?
What app are you currently using to recover your wallet? (I suggest using electrum)
You said you recoverd only 4 addresses, that's weird but did you try looking them up on a block explorer to see if any if them ever been used?
When you first created your Ledger wallet, do you remember adding a passphrase to the 24 words generated by Ledger?

as i remember so far i have made some small bitcoin deposits more than 5 times and never spent them + altcoin.
i will corect this one, i only found 4 kind of mnemonic word

Quote from: DaveF on April 06, 2022, 07:09:30 PM

Take a look here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-finderouter-a-bitcoin-recovery-tool-v0160-2022-09-19-5214021

i just used this software, it said

Quote

There are 24 words in the given mnemonic with 1 missing.
Total number of permutations to check: 2,048
Elapsed time: 00:00:00.0303216
k/s= ∞

and stop there.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 07, 2022, 07:48:40 AM

I've tried that one. Spent almost 5 hours manually and got nothing but wrong address
...
actually found 4 addresses Cry

The combination of OP's first post and these two statements makes me think that by randomly tinkering with his flawed back up OP has simply found 4 other valid seed phrases which are not his seed phrase.

Quote from: redwine49 on April 09, 2022, 07:11:49 AM

as far as i can remember. It's only 1 address, the first address.

Do you know this address? If so, then as I said above, just stick your incorrect seed phrase and this address in to btcrecover and it will spit out your correct seed phrase in an hour or two, provided you are correct when you say that only one word is wrong.

nc50lc

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 09, 2022, 07:11:49 AM

Quote from: nc50lc on April 09, 2022, 04:52:12 AM

-snip-
His previous response "found 4 addresses" doesn't make sense as a reply to my previous post so I guess that the seed phrase doesn't have issue;
but he never answered that last question yet.

as far as i can remember. It's only 1 address, the first address.
-snip-

Again, you have answered neither of the users' questions because saying "you found 1 or 4 address" doesn't make sense unless you specify how you found them.

But anyways, there is a way to test and try if your seed phrase is invalid for having a wrong character and to find if it has a balance:
You can import it to Electrum by toggling "BIP39 seed" in the option during the restore process.
It will show "BIP39 Checksum: ok" below the seed if it's valid (with very small error margin).

Then in the next window, clicking "Detect Existing Accounts" will prompt Electrum to check the mostly used derivation paths if any of them are funded,
it will display a list if there's more than one funded 'account'.

But take note that it's only for Bitcoin not Altcoins.

khaled0111

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OP we need more details and you have to be more precise so we can help you. Let's just forget about the other altcoins and focus on recovering your bitcoin wallet for the moment.
First, did you ever receive any bitcoin on your wallet or you just used it for altcoins?
What app are you currently using to recover your wallet? (I suggest using electrum)
You said you recoverd only 4 addresses, that's weird but did you try looking them up on a block explorer to see if any if them ever been used?
When you first created your Ledger wallet, do you remember adding a passphrase to the 24 words generated by Ledger?

Pmalek

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When you say that you found 1 address or 4 addresses (in your older post), what does that even mean? Found them where, with what?
Since your Nano HW is broken, what software are you using in an attempt to recover your wallet?

Let's get back to the seed word with a typo. Is the whole word typed incorrectly (as in you can't figure out a single letter and what is written), or is one character wrong? Are there some letters of that word that you are 100% certain off and that you can use to figure out the missing character/characters based on those that you know?

redwine49

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Quote from: nc50lc on April 09, 2022, 04:52:12 AM

Quote from: Pmalek on April 09, 2022, 03:11:48 AM

Quote from: nc50lc on April 07, 2022, 10:09:18 PM

Question is, how many Bitcoin accounts did you have in your Ledger Live?
Because aside from the first, every consecutive accounts can't be recovered by using the default derivation path (it needs tweaking).

-snip-

Yes, you wont be able to create another account if the previous one is unfunded.
support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404389482641-Add-your-accounts?

The question is for us to find out if he should be restoring the seed with derivation path account level higher than 0,
the "4 addresses" may be from his first or next accounts.

His previous response "found 4 addresses" doesn't make sense as a reply to my previous post so I guess that the seed phrase doesn't have issue;
but he never answered that last question yet.

as far as i can remember. It's only 1 address, the first address.
It wasn't much that time in 2019 so when my ledger screen is broken, it doesn't matter to me.
last year it became a problem when I couldn't open my wallet. it's not only just bitcoin but some altcoins

nc50lc

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Quote from: Pmalek on April 09, 2022, 03:11:48 AM

Quote from: nc50lc on April 07, 2022, 10:09:18 PM

Question is, how many Bitcoin accounts did you have in your Ledger Live?
Because aside from the first, every consecutive accounts can't be recovered by using the default derivation path (it needs tweaking).

-snip-

Yes, you wont be able to create another account if the previous one is unfunded.
support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/4404389482641-Add-your-accounts?

The question is for us to find out if he should be restoring the seed with derivation path account level higher than 0,
the "4 addresses" may be from his first or next accounts.

His previous response "found 4 addresses" doesn't make sense as a reply to my previous post so I guess that the seed phrase doesn't have issue;
but he never answered that last question yet.

Pmalek

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Quote from: nc50lc on April 07, 2022, 10:09:18 PM

Question is, how many Bitcoin accounts did you have in your Ledger Live?
Because aside from the first, every consecutive accounts can't be recovered by using the default derivation path (it needs tweaking).

Ledger doesn't allow you to generate new receiving addresses until the previously generated ones are funded. However, I have never tried what happens if you attempt to create multiple accounts. Let's say I generate a native segwit account (which would be at the standard derivation path for native segwit), would Ledger Live allow me to create a 2nd, 3rd, 10th native segwit account at different paths with addresses in all of them being unfunded? My logic says, it shouldn't allow you to do that. During synching and account recovery, LL searches the default derivation path and if it doesn't find the 1st account, the search stops. That would mean you can't fund the 3rd account unless the ones created before weren't already funded as well.

nc50lc

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Quote from: redwine49 on April 07, 2022, 07:48:40 AM

Quote from: nc50lc on April 06, 2022, 11:42:31 PM

-snip-

actually found 4 addresses Cry

Okay, so there's no missing character in the seed phrase since you already found 4 addresses.
So, the actual issue is finding the correct "derivation path" of the funded address(es).

Because there can't be a typo if you can properly restore the seed phrase with BIP39-supported wallets (it has a checksum).

Quote from: redwine49 on April 06, 2022, 06:51:25 PM

I used ledger nano wallet and now its broken

Question is, how many Bitcoin accounts did you have in your Ledger Live?
Because aside from the first, every consecutive accounts can't be recovered by using the default derivation path (it needs tweaking).

o_e_l_e_o

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How sure are you that it is only one typo? Could it be two or more? Could some of the words be in the wrong order?

Do you know any of the addresses which are holding coins?

If it is just one typo and you know an address, you could fire this into btcrecover (https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/) and solve it within minutes.

hugeblack

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Open your browser and go to ---> https://github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/english.txt
Click on CRTL+F5 (windows) or any search tool.
Check which part of that word is missing.

If you are sure of all the words are correct and in correct order, lost a letter or two then this option is convenient and easy.
But if you forgot the word completely, finding a word or two won't take long if you use ---> https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/the-finderouter-a-bitcoin-recovery-tool-v0160-2022-09-19-5214021 .

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