IRS sniffing around Coinbase | Bitcointalksearch.org

deisik

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on December 01, 2016, 09:31:55 PM

Quote from: deisik on December 01, 2016, 06:31:02 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 30, 2016, 11:13:07 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 29, 2016, 11:47:29 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 22, 2016, 11:02:21 PM

This will be another legal and a "paper trail" headache for the IRS. Imagine this scenario, I buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase, transfer them to different addresses using an HD wallet. I gamble some in a sportsbetting website, buy altcoins with some at 3 different altcoin exchanges and then transfer them back to different addresses in my HD wallet. I cash out some using Local Bitcoins for a person to person transaction.

How will the IRS figure that out. Also let us pretend I use VPN + Tor since I am also a dark market user.

A mousetrap never runs after a mouse

They won't necessarily go after you exactly just because you bought $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase. They will just sift through the Coinbase records to see who can be caught most easily, pick up a few of those poor fellas, make them into scapegoats and show them on the TV. On the other hand, if you don't live in the US, it seems that you have nothing to worry about so far, I guess. But better be safe than sorry, of course

Yeah this could be all for show and another fear mongering strategy used by the US government to discourage the use of Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies. It will not be surprising if the ruling banks are trying to put pressure on the government to put a stop or even ban Bitcoin.

Personally, I don't think that it all comes down to fear mongering for the purpose of discouraging the use of Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies, though the elements of such a strategy are clearly exhibiting themselves. I'm more inclined to think that these or similar actions are not directed against Bitcoin itself but rather toward disincentivizing people from evading taxes with it. This is quite in line with what all tax collecting agencies do throughout the world...

Their ultimate aim is to collect taxes not to ban or discourage people from using something

But is there really a lot in US Dollars they can collect from the use of Bitcoins? I do not think their ultimate aim is just to collect taxes. When the US government makes moves such as this one, there is always a hidden agenda behind it. Sorry for my distrust but we have seen governments around the world that seek to oppress and take advantage their people even in democratic countries.

I myself share your distrust, at least, to a degree

But let's remain impartial and unbiased. If they (the US government) had a hidden agenda behind this matter, we wouldn't see the IRS sniffing around Coinbase but rather the FBI intervening directly in Coinbase operations. These agencies (IRS, FBI, NSA and other alphabet services) are pretty much closed societies themselves, and they don't like sharing info with each other. Therefore, it may be interesting to indulge in conspiracy theories, but the reality is usually more prosaic overall

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: deisik on December 01, 2016, 06:31:02 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 30, 2016, 11:13:07 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 29, 2016, 11:47:29 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 22, 2016, 11:02:21 PM

This will be another legal and a "paper trail" headache for the IRS. Imagine this scenario, I buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase, transfer them to different addresses using an HD wallet. I gamble some in a sportsbetting website, buy altcoins with some at 3 different altcoin exchanges and then transfer them back to different addresses in my HD wallet. I cash out some using Local Bitcoins for a person to person transaction.

How will the IRS figure that out. Also let us pretend I use VPN + Tor since I am also a dark market user.

A mousetrap never runs after a mouse

They won't necessarily go after you exactly just because you bought $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase. They will just sift through the Coinbase records to see who can be caught most easily, pick up a few of those poor fellas, make them into scapegoats and show them on the TV. On the other hand, if you don't live in the US, it seems that you have nothing to worry about so far, I guess. But better be safe than sorry, of course

Yeah this could be all for show and another fear mongering strategy used by the US government to discourage the use of Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies. It will not be surprising if the ruling banks are trying to put pressure on the government to put a stop or even ban Bitcoin.

Personally, I don't think that it all comes down to fear mongering for the purpose of discouraging the use of Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies, though the elements of such a strategy are clearly exhibiting themselves. I'm more inclined to think that these or similar actions are not directed against Bitcoin itself but rather toward disincentivizing people from evading taxes with it. This is quite in line with what all tax collecting agencies do throughout the world...

Their ultimate aim is to collect taxes not to ban or discourage people from using something

But is there really a lot in US Dollars they can collect from the use of Bitcoins? I do not think their ultimate aim is just to collect taxes. When the US government makes moves such as this one, there is always a hidden agenda behind it. Sorry for my distrust but we have seen governments around the world that seek to oppress and take advantage their people even in democratic countries.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: Shiroslullaby on December 01, 2016, 06:36:34 PM

Honestly I really doubt the IRS would go after anyone who they can't absolutely prove made a huge profit off Bitcoin.
The amount of money/ man hours they would have to invest just wouldn't be worth it to investigate even someone who they believed made a few hundred/ thousand dollars.
They are probably only looking at the accounts they see moving tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in BTC.

With that much info on coinbase can't they just run a blockchain tool and depending on results
just audit you on that info cherry pick who to audit. In USA
with IRS you have to prove you are innocent after the fact. Sure if you are ok on
your taxes no problem. But the FUD on this could be daunting on price if it turns into a
hairball to the press of fun FUD.

Shiroslullaby

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Honestly I really doubt the IRS would go after anyone who they can't absolutely prove made a huge profit off Bitcoin.
The amount of money/ man hours they would have to invest just wouldn't be worth it to investigate even someone who they believed made a few hundred/ thousand dollars.
They are probably only looking at the accounts they see moving tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars in BTC.

leopard2

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Quote from: Red-Apple on November 29, 2016, 10:49:57 AM

the difference is that you are surprised when you hear a Swiss bank gave their customer's private information to IRS but about Coinbase you are surprised to hear if they didn't give anything to IRS.

when Coinbase is in US then it is automatically assumed they already give up private information to government agencies.

True. In fact Coinbase never said they offer secrecy. The moment you open an account with an exchange and send them ID, you cannot expect that info to remain confidential.

Any info that is collected from anyone, is collected to be USED and SHARED, not to keep confidential. KYC is not to protect the customer. A customer does not benefit from KYC at all.

But naturally a kid who bought bitcoins from his allowance for 500$ a few years ago, never expected that money to grow 100 fold, and having to worry about Uncle Sam stealing it from him or her. Sad

deisik

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 30, 2016, 11:13:07 PM

Quote from: deisik on November 29, 2016, 11:47:29 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 22, 2016, 11:02:21 PM

This will be another legal and a "paper trail" headache for the IRS. Imagine this scenario, I buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase, transfer them to different addresses using an HD wallet. I gamble some in a sportsbetting website, buy altcoins with some at 3 different altcoin exchanges and then transfer them back to different addresses in my HD wallet. I cash out some using Local Bitcoins for a person to person transaction.

How will the IRS figure that out. Also let us pretend I use VPN + Tor since I am also a dark market user.

A mousetrap never runs after a mouse

They won't necessarily go after you exactly just because you bought $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase. They will just sift through the Coinbase records to see who can be caught most easily, pick up a few of those poor fellas, make them into scapegoats and show them on the TV. On the other hand, if you don't live in the US, it seems that you have nothing to worry about so far, I guess. But better be safe than sorry, of course

Yeah this could be all for show and another fear mongering strategy used by the US government to discourage the use of Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies. It will not be surprising if the ruling banks are trying to put pressure on the government to put a stop or even ban Bitcoin.

Personally, I don't think that it all comes down to fear mongering for the purpose of discouraging the use of Bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies, though the elements of such a strategy are clearly exhibiting themselves. I'm more inclined to think that these or similar actions are not directed against Bitcoin itself but rather toward disincentivizing people from evading taxes with it. This is quite in line with what all tax collecting agencies do throughout the world...

Their ultimate aim is to collect taxes not to ban or discourage people from using something

Soros Shorts

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Quote from: jondeen707 on November 23, 2016, 02:43:22 PM

Quote from: alyssa85 on November 23, 2016, 11:53:13 AM

Quote from: chesthing on November 22, 2016, 07:50:52 PM

Think about how fucked up this is. You buy something with cash or debit/credit card you don't report it, but you need to report every purchase using bitcoin? this is a serious attack against crypto, make no mistake.

They think bitcoin is an asset, like shares, gold or property. So of course you have to report capital gains. If you bought shares with your debit card and then made a profit on selling it, you would have to report that too.

I don't see a problem here either. The absolute same rules apply to bitcoin as an asset.

The problem is a matter of practicality. It every transaction in your wallet needs to end up on IRS Schedule D then many people in the US would simply not use bitcoins. Furthermore, you can no longer file 1040 EZ even if you were making minimum wage but you happened to have bought/sold a small amount of bitcoins.

Herbert2020

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Quote from: Indrawan77 on November 30, 2016, 08:00:35 PM

It is a bad news for the traders especially the us traders, the government is trying all the best to caught all of the tax income evasion, so it's time to say goodbye to the tax free era, now all of your transactions and your wealth will be monitor by the irs and government

yeah but traders aren't trading on coinbase! they do it on other exchanges like bitfinex, bitstamp, btc-e and kraken. coinbase is as it was before a bad choice for trading and it is only good for new users to buy bitcoin the easy way.

and in case the taxes are tightened bitcoin traders move to exchanges that don't enforce the law like btc-e or they pay their taxes just like they pay taxes when trading Forex.

Searing

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Clueless!

Quote from: talks_cheep on November 30, 2016, 08:22:41 PM

I'm thinking about sending a termination letter to coinbase, asking them to REMOVE and DELETE all my info from their system. Do you think it will be enough to escape the hammer of IRS? I have bought and sold lots of coins on coinbase, so I'm very worried.

Just got my account deleted from 2 years ago from cex.io they stated they keep info for 5 years..so I'd bet coinbase is the same or worse.

(ohhhh....scored $4.44 usd of dodge I forgot about ...before I pulled the plug!)

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: deisik on November 29, 2016, 11:47:29 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 22, 2016, 11:02:21 PM

This will be another legal and a "paper trail" headache for the IRS. Imagine this scenario, I buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase, transfer them to different addresses using an HD wallet. I gamble some in a sportsbetting website, buy altcoins with some at 3 different altcoin exchanges and then transfer them back to different addresses in my HD wallet. I cash out some using Local Bitcoins for a person to person transaction.

How will the IRS figure that out. Also let us pretend I use VPN + Tor since I am also a dark market user.

A mousetrap never runs after a mouse

They won't necessarily go after you exactly just because you bought $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase. They will just sift through the Coinbase records to see who can be caught most easily, pick up a few of those poor fellas, make them into scapegoats and show them on the TV. On the other hand, if you don't live in the US, it seems that you have nothing to worry about so far, I guess. But better be safe than sorry, of course

Yeah this could be all for show and another fear mongering strategy used by the US government to discourage the use of Bitcoins and other cryptocurrencies. It will not be surprising if the ruling banks are trying to put pressure on the government to put a stop or even ban Bitcoin.

talks_cheep

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I'm thinking about sending a termination letter to coinbase, asking them to REMOVE and DELETE all my info from their system. Do you think it will be enough to escape the hammer of IRS? I have bought and sold lots of coins on coinbase, so I'm very worried.

Indrawan77

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It is a bad news for the traders especially the us traders, the government is trying all the best to caught all of the tax income evasion, so it's time to say goodbye to the tax free era, now all of your transactions and your wealth will be monitor by the irs and government

Kprawn

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These guys have been sniffing around Coinbase for a much longer time... I think. The people using regulated exchanges to hide illegal money

are plain stupid. You have to adhere to AML/KYC regulations and all transactions are traceable to individuals, so how are you going to hide

these illegal money? If you try to do that, you should get caught... Do not avoid paying taxes, it's a criminal offense. Wink

deisik

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on November 22, 2016, 11:02:21 PM

This will be another legal and a "paper trail" headache for the IRS. Imagine this scenario, I buy $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase, transfer them to different addresses using an HD wallet. I gamble some in a sportsbetting website, buy altcoins with some at 3 different altcoin exchanges and then transfer them back to different addresses in my HD wallet. I cash out some using Local Bitcoins for a person to person transaction.

How will the IRS figure that out. Also let us pretend I use VPN + Tor since I am also a dark market user.

A mousetrap never runs after a mouse

They won't necessarily go after you exactly just because you bought $100,000 worth of Bitcoins at Coinbase. They will just sift through the Coinbase records to see who can be caught most easily, pick up a few of those poor fellas, make them into scapegoats and show them on the TV. On the other hand, if you don't live in the US, it seems that you have nothing to worry about so far, I guess. But better be safe than sorry, of course

Red-Apple

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Quote from: leopard2 on November 28, 2016, 09:05:36 PM

It's Swiss banks drama all over again Cry

Many decades ago, people opened anonymous accounts, putting their trust in entities that they paid for. Swiss banksters salaries were paid by tax fugitives for decades. I am not saying tax evasion is good. However I think that a service provider that you pay, must work for you and protect you even if it means doom. Banks should have rejected tax fugitives, if they are not willing to fight for them until the bitter end.

Then, verification came along, anonymous accounts at Swiss banks were converted to verified accounts. All in the name of "fighting crime" LOL. A few years later, when the worlds biggest bullies came knocking their doors, the Swiss bankster traitors shoved their customers in front of a bus without thinking. 2008, the names of those people were given to the IRS (using "instant emergency law", means no legal base at all), many of their customers went to jail!

If I could go back in time I would buy alot of Bitcoin, but ONLY with cash.

A bitcoin bought from an exchange, verified and all, is not safe. You do not own it, it is merely "borrowed".

There is no time machine, and lots of people will be in trouble. Shocked

But they cannot complain because Coinbase, as opposed to UBS & Co., never promised secrecy.

Btw the article says Coinbase opened in 2015, so how can they provide data starting 2013?

the difference is that you are surprised when you hear a Swiss bank gave their customer's private information to IRS but about Coinbase you are surprised to hear if they didn't give anything to IRS.

when Coinbase is in US then it is automatically assumed they already give up private information to government agencies.

leopard2

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It's Swiss banks drama all over again Cry

Many decades ago, people opened anonymous accounts, putting their trust in entities that they paid for. Swiss banksters salaries were paid by tax fugitives for decades. I am not saying tax evasion is good. However I think that a service provider that you pay, must work for you and protect you even if it means doom. Banks should have rejected tax fugitives, if they are not willing to fight for them until the bitter end.

Then, verification came along, anonymous accounts at Swiss banks were converted to verified accounts. All in the name of "fighting crime" LOL. A few years later, when the worlds biggest bullies came knocking their doors, the Swiss bankster traitors shoved their customers in front of a bus without thinking. 2008, the names of those people were given to the IRS (using "instant emergency law", means no legal base at all), many of their customers went to jail!

If I could go back in time I would buy alot of Bitcoin, but ONLY with cash.

A bitcoin bought from an exchange, verified and all, is not safe. You do not own it, it is merely "borrowed".

There is no time machine, and lots of people will be in trouble. Shocked

But they cannot complain because Coinbase, as opposed to UBS & Co., never promised secrecy.

Btw the article says Coinbase opened in 2015, so how can they provide data starting 2013?

Searing

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Clueless!

Does not take much for stuff like this to go pear shaped. I was almost in trouble with sec in 2013 because
of buying a KNC titan scrypt miner for over 10k. Bank set up voice meeting speaker phone SEC. This was also
a week after IRS 2013 rules came out. I went back to CPA with new rules and fixed old miner on taxes and stuff to
show my legitness. SEC guy was fine. Banker guy who started all this because btc was evil in 2013
was embarssed and pissed. Brought up I was still unlawful by not filing taxes. Trying to screw me

Slapped my revised tax forms filed down on desk. Last I heard from SEC guy was why am I here?

If it all goes pear shaped and IRS starts to look stupid they will or IRS folk will over react to
Keep their jobs etc

Remember the IRS policy with coinbase as of now is if you use crypto and/or BTC.
You are likely a tax cheat. Thus we want all files this being to the IRS so obvious.

This could be quite the witch hunt.

tunctioncloud

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That's why I lon't like mcuh Coinbase, they're too much in the light. That thing will never to Huobi or maybe Kraken.

BingoDog

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Quote from: 0xfff on November 28, 2016, 06:41:41 AM

If the IRS wants to come after me for $20 in capital gains, let them. Cheesy

Dumb IRS will spend more money investigating that they would gain in taxes. You want your $0.03 cents IRS? Tongue

I don't think so that you are target of IRS. They are after big fishes. If it's true that they are investigating Coinbase they are either sent from someone or have very clear goal what they want to achieve. Money laundering is a serious crime in US but not if it's in cents. :-)

0xfff

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If the IRS wants to come after me for $20 in capital gains, let them. Cheesy

Dumb IRS will spend more money investigating that they would gain in taxes. You want your $0.03 cents IRS? Tongue

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