Is A Second-Hand Hardware Wallet Safe?

NotATether

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 20, 2024, 07:48:51 AM

Quote from: Z-tight on June 19, 2024, 05:58:35 AM

Why do you want to buy a used hardware wallet, are you getting it cheaper? I just want to know the rationale behind it.

No other reason that I can think of because anything second hand of the same thing are cheaper than new of that thing.

Since there's no way to deterministically verify that a used hardware wallet has not been tampered with, they are not safe to use. As everyone else has stated here.

There is no way to be sure that a hardware wallet has not been opened up and had parts and other firmware replaced with malicious counterparts, similar to how a credit card skimmer would work.

Even if we consider only wallets from a single vendor, it can't be guaranteed. As all vendors have different manufacturing processes.

m2017

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Quote from: Cricktor on July 01, 2024, 05:10:53 PM

Most hardware wallets allow a factory reset. Some allow to verify their firmware is genuine and untampered. Could you trust it fully if it passes such a genuinity test? Would you be 100% confident with such a second-hand device? If only tiny doubts persist and won't disappear, it's better to get a new one (which you should check for genuinity, too // supply chain attacks are no myth).

If the firmware turns out to be in order after initialization in the manufacturer’s app (for example, Ledger Live allows to check the authenticity of the hardware wallet), then you can disassemble the device and check for traces of foreign intervention. Often, marks remain on the case if the HW device has been disassembled. After that, send a small test amount to your wallet. If hardware wallet is unreliable, then this money will be stolen immediately.

I don’t understand whether it’s worth bothering with this instead of buying a new hardware wallet, but I can’t think of any other testing methods.

Meuserna

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Quote from: Cricktor on July 01, 2024, 05:10:53 PM

Why would you want to get a second-hand device? OP hasn't answered this very valid question. To save a few bucks?

And let's follow that thought through. Is it really worth risking everything you have in order to save a few bucks? I'd never do that.

Generally speaking, I think one could probably get away with buying a used hardware wallet, but why would anyone in their right mind take the risk? I'd NEVER put my Bitcoin at risk like that. Never, never, never. Not even if I could get a used hardware wallet for free. No way.

Quote from: Cricktor on July 01, 2024, 05:10:53 PM

I'm sure, I wouldn't buy a second-hand hardware wallet. I'd rather build my own from non-suspicious electronic parts (Seedsigner or Krux; awesome stateless hardware wallets; no revealing purchase traces).

Absolutely. In my opinion Krux is much better than most hardware wallets for singlesig, because it offers encrypted seedQR codes (among many other features). And I think SeedSigner is better than most hardware wallets for single-custody multisig (in other words, multisig wallet for one person) because of how easy it is to load multiple seeds. Either would be a great choice for a collaborative multisig wallet (where each person holds a key).

Cricktor

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The most common answer seems to be: don't get a second-hand hardware wallet because it can be difficult to verify it hasn't been tampered.

Why would you want to get a second-hand device? OP hasn't answered this very valid question. To save a few bucks? Probably not worth the hassle, unless OP has severe difficulties to buy a genuine hardware wallet at his location for whatever reasons.

Most hardware wallets allow a factory reset. Some allow to verify their firmware is genuine and untampered. Could you trust it fully if it passes such a genuinity test? Would you be 100% confident with such a second-hand device? If only tiny doubts persist and won't disappear, it's better to get a new one (which you should check for genuinity, too // supply chain attacks are no myth).

I'm sure, I wouldn't buy a second-hand hardware wallet. I'd rather build my own from non-suspicious electronic parts (Seedsigner or Krux; awesome stateless hardware wallets; no revealing purchase traces).

Floxynice

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OP, just hope you know that if anything goes wrong with your hard wallet, you are not getting any support or warranty from the manufacturer? They have no business with you, which means it is just you at the mercy of whoever you are getting the device from. This is why you should buy directly from a reputable manufacturer, at least you are certain it has not been tampered with and you would be getting neccessary assistance if the need arises.

SFR10

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@ContentWriter
Other users already answered your question, but I want to point to something else... If the second-hand HW that you were looking to buy is at the higher end of the price spectrum, it's worth noting that various cheaper brand-new models in the market can also provide similar protection to a certain degree: List of hardware wallets ^{[pick something that has a "secure element" while being "open-source" and having "reproducible builds"]}

The Sceptical Chymist

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OP, I don't know if you're asking this as a hypothetical or are planning on buying a second hand wallet for personal use, but if it's the latter I would strongly suggest not doing it--especially if you plan on keeping substantial amounts of funds on it. The money you'd be saving by buying a used HW wallet just doesn't justify the risk IMO.

The only reason I could ever see for buying a used device would be as a collectible--and that's it. Hardware wallets are generally inexpensive, so why take a chance that there's some malware installed on a used one when you could spend a little more on a new one and sleep better at night.

As long as it's not a Ledger. New or used, if you view what they've done logically there's no way you could put funds on it and be able to sleep at all. Just sayin'.

Z-tight

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on June 20, 2024, 07:48:51 AM

--

Thanks for the links, so people really do offer their used hardware wallets for sale and some people also look for used hardware wallets to buy, the number may not be high, but..yeah.

I don't mind buying second hand of a few things, but surely not something that's going to hold the keys to my money. Even if you may reset it, and follow all safety conditions before use, it still does not make sense trying to save a few $ with something that's going to store way more than that.

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: Z-tight on June 19, 2024, 05:58:35 AM

Why do you want to buy a used hardware wallet, are you getting it cheaper? I just want to know the rationale behind it.

No other reason that I can think of because anything second hand of the same thing are cheaper than new of that thing.

Quote from: Z-tight on June 19, 2024, 05:58:35 AM

Is it a common thing to find people who want to sell their used hardware wallets? I have not read anything about it before.

I saw this online: https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/comments/8i5y2l/is_it_safe_to_buy_a_2nd_hand_ledger_nano_s/

I make further research and I saw this.
This is a used Ledger Nano on eBay: https://www.ebay.com/itm/266817029817?itmmeta=01J0TQE3V4SFGN9HC9KYADAE74&hash=item3e1f88c6b9:g:jOQAAOSw~z5mDuT9&itmprp=enc%3AAQAJAAAA0MTsN6CFysn3nz%2Fmppd64FBvhzSm7A7E5f3Y74FI3F0tgH1qdBg1VkQwANDw6LE63H%2FgH7s%2Fbfxp6B7oBl24Rd4F2dT4Z1QC%2Foh6BCj0wvQwJqtdW4xLjX0RrYre0y8n3XrdDiV6MLUCRmjRqiJFnSxPCp1C5o5rIeaLAE0o%2FvoBedrCpE5Q%2Fs0lsMqxcF35R3noKOlPtyKfBMutYSB9jzUiIF3dtk2zr8ZYnbT8uOyfNXiaM36VI3Xyq95oI9%2BG1Q75UJoKoPDkXFw47u%2FiK4Q%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9K9uNeGZA

Despite the risks, it would be funny if the used one is expensive than the new one.

m2017

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keep walking, Johnnie

Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand C just like a flash drive wallet?

Hardware wallet is not a second hand t-shirt that you can buy and use. Technically, it is possible to format (reset to factory settings) HW, but should you rely 100% on these standard formatting tools as safe and reliable, I think not. Because it is unknown whether the previous owner of the HW device added malicious applications. Do you really want to play roulette and bet your savings?

It is better not to save money when it comes to storing cryptocurrencies and buy only directly from the manufacturer (or official dealers). In general, I agree with the answers of other users in this thread and would not recommend using second-hand hardware wallet.

Z-tight

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

Why do you want to buy a used hardware wallet, are you getting it cheaper? I just want to know the rationale behind it.

That aside, i would not do it, the safest option of purchasing a hardware wallet is from the manufacturers themselves and not just from anyone who wants to sell a device they have used. Is it a common thing to find people who want to sell their used hardware wallets? I have not read anything about it before.

PrivacyG

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I would skip the idea with out a doubt.

Why is the person selling their Hardware Wallet? Why are they giving it away? Why do they want to get rid of it?

There are so many ways this could go wrong. And unless you are going to store 1 Dollars in your Wallet or want to keep it just as a Collectible, I truly believe it could end up as a huge mistake. Think even about others. You purchase the Wallet today, you die tomorrow, your closest relative inherits the Hardware Wallet and out of Trust will use it. If the Hardware Wallet is malicious, they are screwed. Like I said. So many ways it can go wrong.

Just spend more and get a genuine one or build one yourself. Or if both are impossible to do, just build an Airgapped Wallet instead. Any thing other than a SECOND HAND Hardware Wallet sounds safer. Not worth the risk.

dkbit98

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

In theory yes you can do it, but I would never do that unless I am performing a reset of my own old hardware wallet.
Hardware wallets are not like flash drives, they have different firmware structure and someone could always add malicious chips inside, sell this devices and steal and change addresses.
This is not some fantasy story because we alreday had examples for fake devices being sold on internet.

Condlusion:
Purchasing second hand Hardware Wallets is generally not safe.

ABCbits

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Hardware wallet usually have factory reset or wipe feature. But in terms of safety, you never can be sure about that. Aside from verifying it's hardware, who knows if it's installed with malicious firmware. Most importunately, there's no good reason to buy used hardware wallet unless you're performing some kind of research or analysis.

Lucius

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 17, 2024, 04:13:17 AM

Is it possible? Yes. Is it recommended to do so? Probably not, not if you're buying it anyway but I guess if you're getting it from someone close whom you fully trust, then I don't really see anything wrong with that.

I also agree that I would make an exception in the case of used HW only if it was a device that was owned by someone I absolutely trust, and that would be someone from my closest family. All other devices that come outside of that circle are not necessarily bad, but they are potentially risky because we don't know who had them in their hands except the owner.

In the end, it all boils down to what we will do with such a device - use it for a few hundred $ worth of alts, or store tens of thousands of $ worth of coins on it.

satscraper

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

Depends on both the wallet and your skills to recognize counterfeits (if any).

However, commonly, to be on safe side it is always better to acquire wallet from the maker ( or, at least, from official dealer) than from the second-hands.

DaveF

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

Short version: No
Longer version: Hell No

Beyond anything else you have no idea if you are getting a real wallet or a counterfeit one. You should only by wallets from their approved sources, otherwise you have no idea what you are getting.
It's not like you are taking $1000s of dollars or even multiple hundreds. Most are well below the $200 price point, not worth risking your funds to save a little.

-Dave

Charles-Tim

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What is the name of the hardware wallet? Some hardware wallet are old in a way that they are not worth buying.

It will be advisable to order your own hardware wallet from the company that is manufacturing it or from an official reseller if available in your country.

If it is a common hardware wallet, maybe you can see some YouTube reviews to know the fake from the original but you will have to open the hardware wallet to see some components that are inside.

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 17, 2024, 04:11:58 AM

Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

Is it possible? Yes. Is it recommended to do so? Probably not, not if you're buying it anyway but I guess if you're getting it from someone close whom you fully trust, then I don't really see anything wrong with that.

ContentWriter

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Is it possible to format and safely use a second-hand hardware wallet just like a flash drive wallet?

Topic: Is A Second-Hand Hardware Wallet Safe? (Read 212 times)