Topic: Is Bitcoin money? - page 156. (Read 112173 times)

Bingo!

We're using different definitions then.  By your definition Bitcoins are not a currency, since I can't use them for most transactions. 

What makes gold money?  What property does it have that, say, plutonium, does not?

Dollars are currency, not money.  Money can be a currency and vice versa, but they are not quite the same thing and not entirely interchangable.  And fiat currencies are, by thier very definition, not money.  Gold, in our modern world, is still money even though it's no longer a currency.

I do not consider gold to be money.  You can't go and buy most goods and services with gold.  Gold is a commodity, dollars are money.

Bitcoin is a virtual currency.  It has more in common with paypal than it does with dollars or with gold.  I wouldn't really call it money until it is more widely accepted as payment for goods and services.

I've said it before, but heck, I'll say it again because I think it's very important .  I simply wish that there was some useful application specifically for a "network verified" bitcoin (since a bitcoin is just a piece of data).  For example, if a PhD in Computer Science did a study and determined that a Bitcoin is the best seed value for a random number generator.  I think when a use-value for bitcoin as an input to some productive cycle (software development?) is found, it will be a huge boon for the bitcoin community and also it's extrinsic exchange value.

Of course, adding businesses and such that accept bitcoin directly helps it's exchange value as well.

Yes. It doesn't matter what nation-states think bitcoin is.

All we're doing is saying bitcoin as something else other than its economic reality.

Anything that is being used as a medium of exchange is money. Bitcoin, like gold, is money.

+1 agree that it is not money.  However, if it was a pure commodity then it would necessarily require some (even minimal) use value, beyond an exchange value.  Right now bitcoins have a 0% use-value and a 100% exchange value (eg, if they could not be exchanged for something else, they would merely be taking up space on our harddrives and are inherently useless, like random chunks of data).

I believe that the statement: "bitcoin is new kind of money" passes the duck test.

Bitcoins function as money (they're a unit of account, a medium of exchange, and a store of value), and if PayPal started allowing Bitcoin transactions tomorrow I'm certain they'd treat them as Just Another Currency.

If you like, call it a commodity, but I think all you'll accomplish is confusing potential users who might think they'll end up getting pork-bellies delivered to their porch if they don't get rid of their bitcoins.

+1 agreed.  It's a commodity, a digital store of value.

Bitcoin is something radically new. Nothing like Bitcoin has been possible until now. I would go so far as to consider it sui generis; "in its own class".  This makes it important to understand what Bitcoin actually is before we try to describe it to others.

We're getting a good handle on the code, and of course on Bitcoin's function and utility, but what words should we use to describe Bitcoin itself? There has been some debate in other threads [mostly my doing] over how it is like/not like money, cash, dollars, etc. I'd like to start this thread by focusing on the term "money", and play Devil's avocate by asking for your best arguments that Bitcoin IS money.

My legal dictionary states "In usual and ordinary acceptation it [money] means gold, silver, or paper money, used as circulating medium of exchange, and does not embrace notes, bonds, evidences of debt, or other personal or real estate." [cites omitted]

Wikipedia says "Money is any object that is generally accepted as payment for goods and services and repayment of debts in a given country or socio-economic context. The main functions of money are distinguished as: a medium of exchange; a unit of account; a store of value; and, occasionally, a standard of deferred payment." [cited omitted]

Webster's Online Dictionary defines money as:

• 1. The most common medium of exchange; functions as legal tender; "we tried to collect the money he owed us".
• 2. Wealth reckoned in terms of money; "all his money is in real estate".
• 3. The official currency issued by a government or national bank; "he changed his money into francs".
• 4. A piece of metal, as gold, silver, copper, etc., coined, or stamped, and issued by the sovereign authority as a medium of exchange in financial transactions between citizens and with government; also, any number of such pieces; coin.
• 5. Any written or stamped promise, certificate, or order, as a government note, a bank note, a certificate of deposit, etc., which is payable in standard coined money and is lawfully current in lieu of it; in a comprehensive sense, any currency usually and lawfully employed in buying and selling.
• 6. In general, wealth; property; as, he has much money in land, or in stocks; to make, or lose, money.

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I maintain that per these definitions, Bitcoin cannot possibly be described as "money". And further, I think that those who do describe Bitcoin as "money" are doing this community a disservice.

But that is just my point of view. Are there any that can convincingly argue otherwise, that Bitcoin IS money?