Is bitcoin too volatile? - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

bigadam0101

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Quote from: mindrust on December 25, 2014, 06:08:26 PM

Quote from: bigadam0101 on December 25, 2014, 05:57:00 PM

Quote from: bitbunnny on December 11, 2014, 09:48:18 AM

I don't think that BTC will completeley replace fiats. It can become equal to them but not totaly replace them.

My mother was talking like that 20 years ago about credit cards and today she almost don't use cash. Roll Eyes

Thats a different thing. You still use your fiat while you're using cards. The payment is instant. No volatility too.

Ok. But who said that after next 20 years we will have to use paper money? maybe that will be plastic or some cheap metal.. or just chip in your finger Wink

mindrust

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Quote from: bigadam0101 on December 25, 2014, 05:57:00 PM

Quote from: bitbunnny on December 11, 2014, 09:48:18 AM

I don't think that BTC will completeley replace fiats. It can become equal to them but not totaly replace them.

My mother was talking like that 20 years ago about credit cards and today she almost don't use cash. Roll Eyes

Thats a different thing. You still use your fiat while you're using cards. The payment is instant. No volatility too.

mindrust

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Yes it is and it is killing btc slowly day by day.

bigadam0101

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Quote from: bitbunnny on December 11, 2014, 09:48:18 AM

I don't think that BTC will completeley replace fiats. It can become equal to them but not totaly replace them.

My mother was talking like that 20 years ago about credit cards and today she almost don't use cash. Roll Eyes

resya

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think this time bitcoin very volatile compared with the beginning of 2014, I do not whether this is due to the celebration of Christmas is almost near, plus New Year celebrations, maybe now people in desperate need of fiat money to fulfill the needs of christmas and new year, I hope bitcoin prices will return to normal as the beginning of 2014, hopefully ... Shocked

I understand what happened last christmas but this christmas is different. you cant compare 2 years to be exact. The variables are different.

Eastwind

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Quote from: panju1 on December 13, 2014, 11:35:43 PM

Quote from: camoflash on December 13, 2014, 04:38:30 AM

Bit coin is now rather stable. Smart investors can actually make nice profits trading bitcoin daily as it generally tends to chchange at a rate of 1 to 5 % daily as seen on btc e. But I would say that the price will be dropping as less people are saving it and more people using it for daily real life transaction.

While the price hasn't moved much in the last one month, daily volatility can be high compared to other asset classes. As you say, this is one reason why traders are able to make reasonable profits on Bitcoin.

It is relatively stable.

MemoryShock

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Think of the price in relation to the psychology of any given person. And then realize that there are many different ideologies and perspectives contained within 'any given person'. We have ultra conservatives to ultra liberals and then a whole bunch of people who follow the mainstream examples of either.

The ultra liberals won with the price rise of 2013...and the ultra conservatives won with regulation talks of 2014. If Bitcoin can survive hardcore regulation in the short term then it will be exposed to people on an increasing basis over the next several years...and adoption grows.

Or not.

Yeah...it is volatile and should be treated as a speculative rather than a fungible. But that is exactly what we need for it to stabilize...people need to be excited about it in order for them to learn the fundamentals. From there...people will begin to see the obvious benefits...

panju1

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Quote from: camoflash on December 13, 2014, 04:38:30 AM

Bit coin is now rather stable. Smart investors can actually make nice profits trading bitcoin daily as it generally tends to chchange at a rate of 1 to 5 % daily as seen on btc e. But I would say that the price will be dropping as less people are saving it and more people using it for daily real life transaction.

While the price hasn't moved much in the last one month, daily volatility can be high compared to other asset classes. As you say, this is one reason why traders are able to make reasonable profits on Bitcoin.

camoflash

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Bit coin is now rather stable. Smart investors can actually make nice profits trading bitcoin daily as it generally tends to chchange at a rate of 1 to 5 % daily as seen on btc e. But I would say that the price will be dropping as less people are saving it and more people using it for daily real life transaction.

panju1

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Quote from: trex on December 11, 2014, 08:36:01 AM

Price of btc is not important. Only important parts of btc are volume of trade, number of transactions and businesses accepting it as payment. I personally dont have BTC to profit from capital gain, there are better options for that, less risky. Why I decided so? If BTC will someday replace US dollar and other fiats, the value of BTC wont be measured in fiat anymore, because it will be replaced by BTC... When that happens all ''value'' from fiats will be converted in BTC, so you will end up with capital loss not profit. Thinking about how it will be worth a lot of money is just like... in which money, btc is new money remember?

That is a very interesting argument, but will we live to see the day when value is measured in BTC and not fiat? It is a fantastic idea that when BTC is the prevalent currency, we would have no capital gains. But how would we have capital losses? Assuming I earned/purchased USD many years ago, I will not have capital losses today because of the depreciation of the value of the USD.

bitbunnny

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WOLF.BET - Provably Fair Crypto Casino

I don't think that BTC will completeley replace fiats. It can become equal to them but not totaly replace them.

trex

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Price of btc is not important. Only important parts of btc are volume of trade, number of transactions and businesses accepting it as payment. I personally dont have BTC to profit from capital gain, there are better options for that, less risky. Why I decided so? If BTC will someday replace US dollar and other fiats, the value of BTC wont be measured in fiat anymore, because it will be replaced by BTC... When that happens all ''value'' from fiats will be converted in BTC, so you will end up with capital loss not profit. Thinking about how it will be worth a lot of money is just like... in which money, btc is new money remember?

Amph

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Quote from: bitbunnny on December 08, 2014, 08:05:47 AM

Do users actually want BTC to be stable?

yes, but not at current price

panju1

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Quote from: dinofelis on December 08, 2014, 02:16:48 PM

Quote from: panju1 on December 07, 2014, 10:48:33 PM

Isn't $5 trillion too much?

I tried searching for the USD money supply. According to this article on howstuffworks.com, the money supply (M0) in the US last year was $1.2 trillion.
I guess the money supply today won't be too different.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm

Do we need Bitcoin's market to be 4 times the US money supply before stability is attained?

I think you should compare bitcoin more to M2 than to M0. The reason is that bitcoin is already "bank accounts" and "saving accounts", and that there won't be fractional banking with bitcoin (there will always be a difference between 'true' bitcoins - those on the blockchain - and any stuff that looks like bitcoins but are just debt expressed in bitcoin. Only a fiat system, or a system where "real" money is stored and "certificates of money" are circulating allow for a confusion of both, and allow for fractional banking.
As you cannot loan out bitcoins, and keep them nevertheless simultaneously on your wallet, there can be no double-counting of coins (as it is with fiat money on bank accounts).

Which means that what we use as M2 money, will have to be supported by all of bitcoin if bitcoin is to replace fiat.

World-wide (all fiat money included, not just dollars), this is estimated to be equivalent to something like $ 55 trillion I thought.

I guess it is too early to conclude that we will not have fractional reserve banking with Bitcoin. Right now, due to the high volatility and regulatory uncertainty associated with Bitcoin, there are no 'Bitcoin banks' which are being set up. As the bitcoin economy expands, I am sure some entrepreneurs will take up the opportunity to set up Bitcoin banks.

Who wouldn't love to earn money on their bitcoin deposits. Another point - when you are providing liquidity to bitcoin exchanges and people short bitcoins by borrowing them from you, it has an effect similar to fractional reserve banking.

While bitcoin may become the dominant currency of the world, I don't see it replacing it all fiat currency. So comparing it with world-wide fiat (and not USD) might give a misleading picture.

bigadam0101

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Quote from: botany on December 10, 2014, 07:35:11 AM

Quote from: ?? on ??

I think this time bitcoin very volatile compared with the beginning of 2014, I do not whether this is due to the celebration of Christmas is almost near, plus New Year celebrations, maybe now people in desperate need of fiat money to fulfill the needs of christmas and new year, I hope bitcoin prices will return to normal as the beginning of 2014, hopefully ... Shocked

Volatility is actually much lower now.
$400 seems to be a tough resistance to break.
$350-$400 seems to be a range where bitcoin will trade in the near future.

I think it's very likely that bitcoin falls below $ 300 and then stabilizes

botany

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I think this time bitcoin very volatile compared with the beginning of 2014, I do not whether this is due to the celebration of Christmas is almost near, plus New Year celebrations, maybe now people in desperate need of fiat money to fulfill the needs of christmas and new year, I hope bitcoin prices will return to normal as the beginning of 2014, hopefully ... Shocked

Volatility is actually much lower now.
$400 seems to be a tough resistance to break.
$350-$400 seems to be a range where bitcoin will trade in the near future.

AJinNYC

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Bored with you morons.

Quote from: panju1 on December 07, 2014, 10:48:33 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on December 07, 2014, 01:57:24 AM

Once it hits $5 trillion a day volume it will be stable

Isn't $5 trillion too much?

I tried searching for the USD money supply. According to this article on howstuffworks.com, the money supply (M0) in the US last year was $1.2 trillion.
I guess the money supply today won't be too different.
http://money.howstuffworks.com/how-much-money-is-in-the-world.htm

Do we need Bitcoin's market to be 4 times the US money supply before stability is attained?

That really doesn't seem right to me... The federal US annual budget is 4 Trillion a year. And the government pulls in about 2.6 - 3 Trillion a year in taxes.

1Referee

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Quote from: LOBSTER on December 06, 2014, 12:14:58 PM

The problem is the small market cap. Every sale of a Bitcoin whale (I mean four digit amounts of Bitcoins) ends in a dicrease of the price + panic sales etc. If we'd have a stable fundament we wouldn't have such a high variability and volatility...

Even if Bitcoin had a market cap of 20 billion right now, which would make 1 Bitcoin worth around $1400.

That will most likely result in very small buy orders that just arent able to handle a massive +1000 Bitcoin dump.

There are, and always will be whales with a huge load of coins that can make the price drop significantly.

feverpitch

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Currencies are pretty far along these days.
The "next" cryptocurrency will also be seen as volatile as it climbs from $0 - $x. Volatility is unconditional moving forward with cryptocurrencies.
Considering BTC has not even reached mainstream adoption, you cannot call it any MORE or LESS volatile than any other currency out of fruition.

JJB

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Quote from: master5 on December 08, 2014, 12:47:31 PM

Quote from: bitbunnny on December 08, 2014, 08:05:47 AM

Do users actually want BTC to be stable?

I don't think so. I think that many users make money on the BTC price fluctuations and stability of BTC price deprive them of this opportunity

Bitcoin fluctuating is very good for speculators and investors but at some point I think it will need to slow down to be seen as a viable or respectable currency.

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