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Topic: Is BitFUnix and the Tether dollar USDT about to crash the Bitcoin market? (Read 7035 times)

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
...And as long as Bitfinex and Tether aren’t redeeming USDT for USD, their bank accounts can stay well hidden. The short-lived USD/EUR banking through a third party account at a small Polish bank......that was just for show.
It looks like Tether has actually redeemed 30M $ of USDT for the first time. The outstanding supply
of USDT has dropped from 2.25 billion USDT to 2.22 billion USDT.

If the outflows of several USDT wallets of the biggest altcoin exchanges are any indication,
we can expect additional redemptions of USDT in the next few days
(see my post in the Wall Observer Thread for the details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.29314991).

Maybe. I don't think it's that useful to speculate either way. With a centralized ledger like Tether, granting/redeeming USDT takes the click of a button, not the movement of real money. And at this point, $30M is just 1% of the outstanding supply. That supply inflated from virtually zero over a period when Tether and Bitfinex haven't been able to service wires. People have been waiting in the KYC queue for over a year now on Tether.to. There are countless reports of people unable to redeem USDT, who are told by Tether to sell it on one of their "partner exchanges" instead. And I'm hearing rumors that Bitfinex's Polish bank account (through Crypto Capital) has been closed. That seems likely: https://www.reddit.com/r/bitfinex/comments/7tm8rl/bitfinex_vs_bitstamp_support_tickets_518257_572764/

It's just not rational to have any involvement whatsoever with Tether or Bitfinex at this point. It doesn't matter how much USD they have "in reserves" or if a limited number of customers are able to cash out occasionally. When you consider why they were virtually blacklisted by the banking industry, and then you consider how long Uncle Sam's reach is (as they subpoena Bitfinex/Tether).....it looks bad.

Once the banking industry essentially blockaded them (and this was probably done at the behest of the US government), they became a de facto rogue exchange. They’ve got a massive target on their back. Anyone denying that is naive.

They already were firmly rogue. There isn't an exchange still going with such a chequered past and so much mystery surrounding it. After all this time virtually nothing is known about its true ins and outs.


Last year, we could have pointed to BTC-e as another example. We know how that turned out. Tongue
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
Once the banking industry essentially blockaded them (and this was probably done at the behest of the US government), they became a de facto rogue exchange. They’ve got a massive target on their back. Anyone denying that is naive.

They already were firmly rogue. There isn't an exchange still going with such a chequered past and so much mystery surrounding it. After all this time virtually nothing is known about its true ins and outs.

They painted the target on their own back. It didn't need to be there. It was placed there by their own actions.
sr. member
Activity: 658
Merit: 282
...And as long as Bitfinex and Tether aren’t redeeming USDT for USD, their bank accounts can stay well hidden. The short-lived USD/EUR banking through a third party account at a small Polish bank......that was just for show.

...



It looks like Tether has actually redeemed 30M $ of USDT for the first time. The outstanding supply
of USDT has dropped from 2.25 billion USDT to 2.22 billion USDT.

If the outflows of several USDT wallets of the biggest altcoin exchanges are any indication,
we can expect additional redemptions of USDT in the next few days
(see my post in the Wall Observer Thread for the details: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.29314991).
legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521
How can they do that if theres no FUD campaign to bring it down? So they close one of the main exchanges, ban tether, say it was a fraud and hence, ban all crypto-currencies, but only temporary so that people sell it to them, then unban it and turn their game on. Then you will have Dimons and Buffets saying they were right the whole time, or saying that now bitcoin is a "safe investment" like stocks and PMs.

Well, if that is the case then Bitfinex gift wrapped it for them. They were stunningly stupid not to either go 100% legit or shut up shop and go away. There's no realistic choice beyond those two. They can't keep operating in a grey area. Those days are gone.

Once the banking industry essentially blockaded them (and this was probably done at the behest of the US government), they became a de facto rogue exchange. They’ve got a massive target on their back. Anyone denying that is naive.

The problem for both the US government and Bitfinex/Tether is the money in custody. If the BTC-e takedown (and subsequent relaunch as WEX) taught us anything, it’s that most of the crypto holdings can’t be seized. And as long as Bitfinex and Tether aren’t redeeming USDT for USD, their bank accounts can stay well hidden. The short-lived USD/EUR banking through a third party account at a small Polish bank......that was just for show.

How long can this last? I don’t know. I do know that the attempted shutdown of BTC-e was a complete embarrassment for the US government. So, there’s that. A USDT collapse/exchange shutdown/exit scam or combination thereof is probably likely. The question is when. It could be a while yet.
legendary
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1823
...
Two months later the FUD is turning out to becoming real from the perspective that Bitfinex is maintaining Bitcoin's high price by printing USDT and using that to buy Bitcoin.

But does Bitfinex really have that much of an influence in the whole Bitcoin market? I do not believe so.

the FUD by OP was never real and will never become true. as i said before OP is just spreading it at certain times with different topics because he wants to make money, stupidly i should add. and it is not just tether, not long ago he was advertising the shit out of Bitcoin Cash and how that is going to kill "SegWit coin" (as he called it), only because at that time bcash was getting pumped.

Let us stay with the argument and not attack the character of the OP just because you disagree with his argument.

By the way if you have not read the latest news, Bitfinex was given a subpoena by a US regulator for questioning about Tether and USDT.

Quote
not to mention that bitcoin price is generally higher on Coinbase than it has been on bitfinex. so how can bitfinex be "maintaining high price of bitcoin" where USDT is not even on coinbase? plus there have been a lot of other places with higher prices such as the Korean exchanges which had $1000-$2000 higher price than USD markets! with bigger volume too.

Bad argument. Maintaining Bitcoin's price does not have to make it higher than the rest of the exchanges.
member
Activity: 259
Merit: 18

Interesting that the supoena was on December 6th, but the news of it has only been released now. Bitcoin is down by 10%, but appears to be holding around $10k - must be a lot of buy orders just under $10k.

Lots of bulls are trying to call it "old news" and therefore unimportant. As if the CFTC closing in on Bitfinex/Tether in December is so much better news than if it happened in January. After December 6th, Chris Ellis (Bitfinex employee) removed warrant canaries from his profile and went dark. Then Tether dissolved its relationship with Friedman LLP. Clearly, the situation is coming to a head, as much as people want to plug their ears and pretend it's not happening.

Bitfinex has given the the US government lots of reasons to come after it (unlicensed money transmission, issuing and trading unregistered securities, etc).....but the CFTC is probably getting increasingly involved in the space because of the CBOE/CME/other regulated futures markets. The CFTC now has a much stronger mandate to oversee spot manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop enforcement actions on exchanges like Bitfinex.

On unlicensed money transmission, are you saying that Bitfinex does not have a money transmitters license??? How do you know this?
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
How can they do that if theres no FUD campaign to bring it down? So they close one of the main exchanges, ban tether, say it was a fraud and hence, ban all crypto-currencies, but only temporary so that people sell it to them, then unban it and turn their game on. Then you will have Dimons and Buffets saying they were right the whole time, or saying that now bitcoin is a "safe investment" like stocks and PMs.

Well, if that is the case then Bitfinex gift wrapped it for them. They were stunningly stupid not to either go 100% legit or shut up shop and go away. There's no realistic choice beyond those two. They can't keep operating in a grey area. Those days are gone.
sr. member
Activity: 1400
Merit: 347
Bitfinex has given the the US government lots of reasons to come after it (unlicensed money transmission, issuing and trading unregistered securities, etc).....but the CFTC is probably getting increasingly involved in the space because of the CBOE/CME/other regulated futures markets. The CFTC now has a much stronger mandate to oversee spot manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop enforcement actions on exchanges like Bitfinex.


Thats because CME/CBOE were to "tame" bitcoin, and they cant do it with Bitfinex issuing tethers which, supposedly, would be pumping the price of bitcoin.

They want the price of bitcoin down. They want it to be 1k. That what futures is all about, to crash it so that Wall Street can buy it cheap, and then turn it into a institutional game, like stocks and PMs. A game were they always win and the average Joe always lose.

How can they do that if theres no FUD campaign to bring it down? So they close one of the main exchanges, ban tether, say it was a fraud and hence, ban all crypto-currencies, but only temporary so that people sell it to them, then unban it and turn their game on. Then you will have Dimons and Buffets saying they were right the whole time, or saying that now bitcoin is a "safe investment" like stocks and PMs.

legendary
Activity: 1806
Merit: 1521

Interesting that the supoena was on December 6th, but the news of it has only been released now. Bitcoin is down by 10%, but appears to be holding around $10k - must be a lot of buy orders just under $10k.

Lots of bulls are trying to call it "old news" and therefore unimportant. As if the CFTC closing in on Bitfinex/Tether in December is so much better news than if it happened in January. After December 6th, Chris Ellis (Bitfinex employee) removed warrant canaries from his profile and went dark. Then Tether dissolved its relationship with Friedman LLP. Clearly, the situation is coming to a head, as much as people want to plug their ears and pretend it's not happening.

Bitfinex has given the the US government lots of reasons to come after it (unlicensed money transmission, issuing and trading unregistered securities, etc).....but the CFTC is probably getting increasingly involved in the space because of the CBOE/CME/other regulated futures markets. The CFTC now has a much stronger mandate to oversee spot manipulation. I wouldn't be surprised to see them drop enforcement actions on exchanges like Bitfinex.
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1088
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!

Interesting that the supoena was on December 6th, but the news of it has only been released now. Bitcoin is down by 10%, but appears to be holding around $10k - must be a lot of buy orders just under $10k.
sr. member
Activity: 882
Merit: 269
This is a high rate of clash we have ever witnessed since the beginning of this months as we have not even see the end yet.  Usdt may be a tools in the hands of the elites that there want to used to clash some major cryptocurrency. I think we should still hold our position as now is still the bad times for one to sell his coins!
member
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
member
Activity: 259
Merit: 18
Tether has a Market Capitalization of about 2 billions. That is not really much these days in the world of cryptocurrencies.
Bitfinex has a trading volume of bitcoin of about 7%.
Why all those doomsday fantasies? What am I missing?


Tether is on loads of exchanges.

It's 2 billion of fresh capital. Most other volumes are old money being recycled that never leaves exchanges.

That makes a USDT multiple times more powerful than a USD you see on Coinmarketcap.

Precisely. The massive market cap numbers do not truly reflect what is going on. Real numbers are much lower and USDT is surely playing a dirty game here.
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
Tether has a Market Capitalization of about 2 billions. That is not really much these days in the world of cryptocurrencies.
Bitfinex has a trading volume of bitcoin of about 7%.
Why all those doomsday fantasies? What am I missing?


Tether is on loads of exchanges.

It's 2 billion of fresh capital. Most other volumes are old money being recycled that never leaves exchanges.

That makes a USDT multiple times more powerful than a USD you see on Coinmarketcap.
hero member
Activity: 959
Merit: 500
Tether has a Market Capitalization of about 2 billions. That is not really much these days in the world of cryptocurrencies.
Bitfinex has a trading volume of bitcoin of about 7%.
Why all those doomsday fantasies? What am I missing?
full member
Activity: 280
Merit: 105
It this stage it seems to be just a case of will it or won't it and that comes down to if it turns out bitfinex and tether have been used to manipulate the market with no actual reserves or not. I don't think this is something we're going to find the answer to anytime soon unless there's some sort of exit scheme. It will be interesting to watch the usdt/usd price
legendary
Activity: 2590
Merit: 3015
Welt Am Draht
If people stopped trading on Bitfinex, and traded instead on other exchanges against USD, we wouldn't have this problem.

But looking at coinmarketcap, Bitfinex is still the #2 exchange by volume. People need to switch to Bitstamp or Gemini. At least on those exchanges you know you are trading with real money.

No mention of the alts? Tether underpins huge volumes on multiple alt exchanges now. It's gone far beyond being Bitfinex's wee bit of fun.

So here's an alternate thought, if Ifinex went up in smoke it is conceivable some other consortium could take on Tether's liabilities and run it in a less offensive manner?

I believe they have the dollars. I also believe their utter contempt for due diligence will ensure they're eventually ravaged rather than being caught with their financial pants down. If it had stayed in the tens of millions no one would notice but it's in the billions now. That never goes unpunished.
legendary
Activity: 2114
Merit: 1293
There is trouble abrewing
If people stopped trading on Bitfinex, and traded instead on other exchanges against USD, we wouldn't have this problem.

But looking at coinmarketcap, Bitfinex is still the #2 exchange by volume. People need to switch to Bitstamp or Gemini. At least on those exchanges you know you are trading with real money.

well according to coinmarketcap.com that is only 6% of total volume, which is yet again another proof that people are giving bitfinex so much more attention and fake power than it deserves.

and it raises an important question, can an exchange with only 6% volume of a 170 billion dollar market have that kind of effect?!!
legendary
Activity: 1652
Merit: 1088
CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!
If people stopped trading on Bitfinex, and traded instead on other exchanges against USD, we wouldn't have this problem.

But looking at coinmarketcap, Bitfinex is still the #2 exchange by volume. People need to switch to Bitstamp or Gemini. At least on those exchanges you know you are trading with real money.
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