It's not nice to fuck with Racoons.
My $.02.
Topic: Is Butterfly Labs breaking the law? (Read 11513 times)
It's not nice to fuck with Racoons.
My $.02.
butterfly labs is willing to say anything . They don't care about the law . 
It be interesting to see what lawsuits have been filed against them.
bitcoin is new，& law too later
I wonder if there's a statement in the American law saying that the vendor must indicate more or less strict shipping dates and bear responsibility for delays (discounts, free upgrades etc...). The BFL's "2 months or more..." is the same as "years" or "forever". For example 1297 or 924 months is more than 2 right? . We've accepted it. Their 25% discount on further orders for those poor guys who wait more than 1,5 year since April 2012 looks like a derision 
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. We've accepted it. Their 25% discount on further orders for those poor guys who wait more than 1,5 year since April 2012 looks like a derision . 
Has anyone started collecting members for a class action lawsuit? It seems like you could easily out some legal pressure on them, if that is what you're trying to do.
On the other hand, I think a lot of people still want their mining rigs, no? I also don't think they have the money to refund everyone's orders. Its not necessarily a good thing to have a court order come down saying "give them their money back" because its liable to induce bankruptcy.
Maybe if they were willing to upgrade everyone with pre-orders to the next generation mining rig, they might be able to take off some of the heat?
On the other hand, I think a lot of people still want their mining rigs, no? I also don't think they have the money to refund everyone's orders. Its not necessarily a good thing to have a court order come down saying "give them their money back" because its liable to induce bankruptcy.
Maybe if they were willing to upgrade everyone with pre-orders to the next generation mining rig, they might be able to take off some of the heat?
I think its clear they must refund if people ask for a refund.
What people need to realize is that their only protection other than shipping in a reasonable timeframe is bankruptcy. If they go there, then you are *NEVER* going to get a refund.. bankruptcy *protection* protects them against you (a lowly creditor behind all the bondholders and banks.)
I would make sure people think long and hard about what happens when the difficulty increases faster than the shipping can keep orderers happy. I think you could make a prediction here either way, but the very real possibility that they declare bankruptcy is certainly a possible outcome.
What people need to realize is that their only protection other than shipping in a reasonable timeframe is bankruptcy. If they go there, then you are *NEVER* going to get a refund.. bankruptcy *protection* protects them against you (a lowly creditor behind all the bondholders and banks.)
I would make sure people think long and hard about what happens when the difficulty increases faster than the shipping can keep orderers happy. I think you could make a prediction here either way, but the very real possibility that they declare bankruptcy is certainly a possible outcome.
Needs to be an option "Yes, every freaking law"
;-)
Needs to be an option "Yes, every freaking law"
It's about time someone made a formal complaint to the BBB, the FTC and the FBI.
After reading and reflecting more on it, I changed my position and agree with the rest of you. Reasonable standard of care is an expectation, and if they are not providing that, then yes, they should offer timely refunds and comply with the law.
A contract is not legal if the will of one of the parts is not to carry out her compromise. Then is a fraud.
I guess they are using the fiat to run the business till they run out of cash. Then they file for bankruptcy, but keeping the bitcoins.
Time will tell.
I guess they are using the fiat to run the business till they run out of cash. Then they file for bankruptcy, but keeping the bitcoins.
Time will tell.
Also this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consideration
A contract is not legal if the will of one of the parts is not to carry out her compromise. Then is a fraud.
I guess they are using the fiat to run the business till they run out of cash. Then they file for bankruptcy, but keeping the bitcoins.
Time will tell.
I guess they are using the fiat to run the business till they run out of cash. Then they file for bankruptcy, but keeping the bitcoins.
Time will tell.
IMHO, if BFL tells you that a condition of your order is that all sales are final and no refunds will be given, and you agree to those terms and purchase anyway, then you shouldn't cry to the FTC and ask mommy to make the bad man give you your money back.
And if they change their "policy" after you have paid your money? I'm glad that you are so perfect that you have never been victumized. Some day your time will come and you will get to cry too.
IMHO, if BFL tells you that a condition of your order is that all sales are final and no refunds will be given, and you agree to those terms and purchase anyway, then you shouldn't cry to the FTC and ask mommy to make the bad man give you your money back.
If the contract is not legal then it is not a contract and the fact that you agreed is meaningless.
They have to either ship the product in a reasonable time period or refund the customers.
Otherwise it is fraud, regardless of what the customer agreed to.
just becaue you agree to terms of purchase dosnt mean it complies with fair trading laws
Back on page one we talk about the FTC and how someone can make a claim with them because refusing a refund is criminal.
IMHO, if BFL tells you that a condition of your order is that all sales are final and no refunds will be given, and you agree to those terms and purchase anyway, then you shouldn't cry to the FTC and ask mommy to make the bad man give you your money back.
Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
I have no stake in this, however I am fairly certain that the "all sales are final" disclaimer is not sufficient here.
The legal definition of a "sale" implies a transfer of goods has taken place. As long as the seller has not preformed on their end of the sale, it could likely be argued (successfully) that no sale was made, and therefore the "all sales are final" disclaimer is not enforceable. And because a sale has not been made, the seller is in breach of the contract until the unit ships, and the buyer would have the right to receive their money back.
Further, because the units shipping are different from the description of the units ordered, this is also a breach of contract by the seller, because a valid "sale" would imply the buyer receiving the item as described.
This is a class-action suit waiting to happen.
If "the law" is following the orders of nutjobs in blue uniforms that are funded by extorting homeowners, then, as a homeowner, I would be willing to fund some guys to dress up and put the BFL guys in handcuffs and beat them while saying
"stop resisting", and then throw them in a cage.
Scummy fuckers. Don't sell shit you don't have.
"stop resisting", and then throw them in a cage.
Scummy fuckers. Don't sell shit you don't have.
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