Topic: Is Butterfly Labs breaking the law? - page 3. (Read 11513 times)

The website has said that for a long time however from what I have seen they have always cancelled an order and refunded them when asked to (even sometimes when not asked to LOL), that is up until recently.

IMO BFL is playing a very dangerous game, time will tell though, I have my popcorn (and fortunately no skin in the BFL game!).

I asked for a refund today and this was the response i received :

 ________________________
Hi,

As stated on the order form, all sales are final. Unfortunately, we cannot give you a refund. We truly do appreciate your business.

Best Wishes,
Abbey
BF Labs, Inc.
 ___________________



 It was for a Jalapenos 5GH (no upgrade) ordered June 3 2013. (#100063809‏).


This is reportedly and email received from BFL by a customer who wanted a refund.

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/3521-bfl-doesnt-refund-anymore.html

The entire thread if it interest you.

There are others (I'm not that interested to dig them up tbh) but from what I have read recently this seems to be the trend (which could be a huge red flag and possibly against FTC regulations if I read them correctly).

Their website states that they do not offer refunds.

Could you provide us with names of people who have ordered, paid, asked for a refund and did not get it? I've ordered a unit from BFL so this keenly interests me.

Direct link to FTC compliant form:

https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/FTC_Wizard.aspx?Lang=en





More information from the link above:

WHERE TO GO FOR HELP

For more information about the Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule, call the Federal Trade Commission toll-free: 1-877-FTC-HELP; write: Federal Trade Commission, Consumer Response Center, 600 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20580; or visit: www.ftc.gov.

You also may want to contact relevant trade associations, such as the Direct Marketing Association. Contact the DMA’s Washington, DC office at: 202-955-5030; write: 1111 19th Street, N.W., Suite 1100, Washington, DC 20036-3603; or visit: www.the-dma.org.

Your local U.S. Postal Service or consumer protection agency may offer additional assistance. State and local governments also may have requirements with which you must comply. You should consult appropriate state agencies for information about laws that affect your business.




For More Information

The FTC works for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop, and avoid them. To file a complaint or to get free information on consumer issues, visit ftc.gov or call toll-free, 1-877-FTC-HELP (1-877-382-4357); TTY: 1-866-653-4261. The FTC enters consumer complaints into the Consumer Sentinel Network, a secure online database and investigative tool used by hundreds of civil and criminal law enforcement agencies in the U.S. and abroad.

Since they have stopped issuing refunds it certainly appears to me (IANAL) they are at least breaking FTC regulations.  It would seem that UNTIL the product is physically shipped a customer has the right to cancel their order (for ANY reason) and the company MUST issue a prompt refund. 

Below is quoted from the link at the FTC site (bolded is mine)

When You Must Cancel an Order

You must cancel an order and provide a prompt refund when:
•the customer exercises any option to cancel before you ship the merchandise;
•the customer does not respond to your first notice of a definite revised shipment date of 30 days or less and you have not shipped the merchandise or received the customer’s consent to a further delay by the definite revised shipment date;
•the customer does not respond to your notice of a definite revised shipment date of more than 30 days (or your notice that you are unable to provide a definite revised shipment date) and you have not shipped the merchandise within 30 days of the original shipment date;
•the customer consents to a definite delay and you have not shipped or obtained the customer’s consent to any additional delay by the shipment time the customer consented to;
•you have not shipped or provided the required delay or renewed option notices on time; or
•you determine that you will never be able to ship the merchandise.


http://business.ftc.gov/documents/bus02-business-guide-mail-and-telephone-order-merchandise-rule

FTC also comes to mind.

I've also read about RICO, but not versed in it.

Let's run this up the flagpole.  Is Butterfly labs breaking any known American federal or state laws?  


I'm wondering about:

Technology Export Laws
Mail or mail order fraud (Like the ?founder? appears to have plead guilty to)
Uniform Commercial Code
Money printing machine laws
FCC (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2622757)
FTC (see post #3 below)
other


This is in response to the long running thread here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/re-butterfly-labs-ceo-25-million-usd-mail-fraud-a-concise-summary-of-evidence-110805