Is Capitalism Flawed? - page 4. | Bitcointalksearch.org

northstarh

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Quote from: mamaya on July 28, 2017, 06:46:58 PM

Universal basic income will be needed eventually but we are currently still in a resource scarce world and capitalism is the only system that is efficient as it uses peoples greed to incentivize them towards production.

The line starts to get blurry though and its hard to say when UBI needs to start and how much it should be.

Capitalism makes it easier than all other political regimes, however, it is not the only mode that can do that. Many countries are moving towards capitalism, but I think they need a long period of time to change.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 28, 2017, 04:24:37 PM

I think a universal basic income is needed.

Universal Basic Income may be a question of whether a private sector can create jobs more efficiently and effectively than a state can provide welfare. New programs like UBI require the introduction of new tax hikes to create a revenue stream. This can be a real issue in countries like the united states where many support single payer healthcare but few support additional tax hikes for funding purposes.

|Bitkoin|

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Capitalism solves lots of issues. It is an amazing system, which facilitates growth of economies at rates the likes of which have never been seen before. However, no system is perfect. Inherent in capitalism are flaws, just like any other ideology. MAny people do not agree fundamentally with capitalism. When new systems arise, there is always strong support by many people (otherwise they could not arise to begin with). Look at National Socialism - was easily as popular as capitalism and collapsed in just 20 years.

yoseph

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 26, 2017, 03:55:17 PM

Is Capitalism flawed? I used to believe that Capitalism solves issues, but if I really look around me, it actually only creates more issues that were not here before.

> There are many rich people with tons of capital but there are more unemployed people that will not have access to that

> People are living in luxury mansions and driving very expensive car, and then kids are starving in other places

> Profits of companies is going up, but real wages going down, people are living paycheck to paycheck

> Everyone is in debt, nobody has any savings, and most people are working part time jobs

> Nobody has a house, nobody can afford one, yet real estate speculators own thousands of them

> Banks have trillions of $ of money, but they still charge you 50$ / transaction because of their greed

> People have no future prospects, no career opportunity, they just live from paycheck to paycheck trying to pay off the debt and buy some shit GMO food filled with poison, because why sell healthy food to the public when the GMO food is more profitable?

It looks to me like Capitalism is flawed. Nobody has any money and everyone is suffering. I think a universal income must be implemented as fast as possible.

In some ways capitalism is a flawed system, the rich are getting richer, but capitalism has the means of making anyone rich overnight, there are stories of people becoming rich because of the concept of their ideas. The rich are rich because they dream and they had the opportunity of pursuing their dreams.

ekoice

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Capitalism is only for the benefit of rich and not for the poor.Banks are an important aspect of capitalism.They collect deposits from middle class people,pay them very low interests and lend that money to big investors and rich people.Also,they charge heavy transaction fee for even smaller transaction mounts and sucked money of poor people more.Thats why satoshi created this revolutionary digital currency,bitcoin with decentralized nature.He wanted to free people from bankers and find a system in which money could be sent P2P without indulging banks at a very low fee.Bitcoin is almost achieving what satoshi dreamed and now it has become the worst nightmare not even to banks,but also to capitalists who think that they only deserve to be rich people.

nightrider

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Quote from: TheCoinFinder on July 28, 2017, 12:01:49 PM

Every system comes with its excellance. We only people make it flawed. Some people perform capitalism affecting economy doing illegal activities.
Thus the government is slipshod and responsible

Without any perfect system, it always carries holes, the problem is the time when it occurs, bitcoin is also a typical example, the bitcoin flaw is not enough blocks to make quick transactions.

Colt22

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Quote from: warrior333 on July 28, 2017, 10:53:50 AM

In General you are right, but there is one inaccuracy. Even under capitalism it is impossible to allow to the market was completely free. In all capitalist countries there are antitrust laws. This regulatory method allows you to control the market, so it is under capitalism, too, is not free.

Capitalism does not offer you complete freedom. All states that have capitalism type of government do have laws to control their markets. In general, there is no system in the world that allows complete freedom to the members of the state. All in one way or another are continuously trying to rule innocent people.

Przemax

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 26, 2017, 03:55:17 PM

Is Capitalism flawed? I used to believe that Capitalism solves issues, but if I really look around me, it actually only creates more issues that were not here before.

> There are many rich people with tons of capital but there are more unemployed people that will not have access to that

> People are living in luxury mansions and driving very expensive car, and then kids are starving in other places

> Profits of companies is going up, but real wages going down, people are living paycheck to paycheck

> Everyone is in debt, nobody has any savings, and most people are working part time jobs

> Nobody has a house, nobody can afford one, yet real estate speculators own thousands of them

> Banks have trillions of $ of money, but they still charge you 50$ / transaction because of their greed

> People have no future prospects, no career opportunity, they just live from paycheck to paycheck trying to pay off the debt and buy some shit GMO food filled with poison, because why sell healthy food to the public when the GMO food is more profitable?

It looks to me like Capitalism is flawed. Nobody has any money and everyone is suffering. I think a universal income must be implemented as fast as possible.

The renegade economist Michael Hudson is in my opinion right about the current economical model. We are heading towards the feudalism. The reason for that, is not what we call capitalism, or something like that. The reason for that is a profit taking from a rent. People are aquiring the gains from the rent. There should be a division from wealth - which could be a knowledge, money, means of production etc., and distinct it from the unjustified gain like from renting something. There is nothing wrong with being wealthy - its a problem of defining wealth and making it distinct from being a rentier.

If someone for example is giving the factory to workers, he should have something from it. Thats just. But.... the gain from the fact that he have factory should be minimalise to some time. For example a 20 or 30 years. If that would not happen there is no difference between the factory owner and feudal nobility, that capitalism was suppose to make obsolete.

The problem with this system is ujustified rent seeking - the definition of feudal model in itself.

deisik

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 28, 2017, 04:21:35 PM

Quote from: deisik on July 28, 2017, 07:18:47 AM

All talk and no walk

So you came here claiming that capitalism is bad, okay with that. Now you claim that communism is in fact badder and you say that there should be a better system than these two. And what is it specifically? What is your point beside mere enumeration of capitalism flaws, which we all are more or less familiar with? What is this "universal income" if you don't actually imply a variety of communism? That's what I mean by you being a "communist deep inside" (deep inside your self)

But you make it sound like only these 2 systems can exist, if you don't like one you must choose the other. Sounds like a false dichotomy.

Why can't there be a 3rd way. And what does UBI have to do with communism?

Communism was all about enslaving people in labor camps, UBI is about helping the poor. I think there is a lot of difference between it

What is UBI specifically?

Who is going to pay it and why helping the poor this way is going to change anything? I guess it should be as cleas as day that it won't make them rich. We already have social benefits to be paid to the unemployed and disabled (obviously, different countries have different systems in place), but this is utterly inconsequential to either capitalism or communism. That is to say, these benefits don't change anything in particular in the social and economic order of the state. So how exactly is this universal income going to change the current lay of the land?

Granxis

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Capitalism is based on very solid foundations, I am never a capitalist, but I have, unfortunately, seen the most harmful of the real, capitalist system.

mamaya

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Universal basic income will be needed eventually but we are currently still in a resource scarce world and capitalism is the only system that is efficient as it uses peoples greed to incentivize them towards production.

The line starts to get blurry though and its hard to say when UBI needs to start and how much it should be.

Ultegra134

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 28, 2017, 04:24:37 PM

Quote from: webtricks on July 28, 2017, 11:41:18 AM

Surely, it is. That is the reason economists always stress on implementing Capitalism in only those countries which are rich enough to sustain person-to-person competition.
Coming to your listed points, all points stress on single idea and that is "Capitalism widen gap between richs and poors." No doubt its true enough. But this doesn't make the Capitalism failure. Capitalism is important form of economy setup and the one resulting in most growth as well as economic development. Thus, it is important for global development.

I never said it's a total failure, I said that it has flaws and has to be fixed.

I recognize the technological advancements caused by Capitalism and that is good.

But on the other hand people are getting poorer each day, and jobs are lost to automation. How do you solve that issue?

I think a universal basic income is needed.

To be frank, you simply don't, automation is bound to happen, just check how much artificial intelligence has developed, or the increase of machine usage in factories.
There's not much to do for the people who are getting poorer each day.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: webtricks on July 28, 2017, 11:41:18 AM

Surely, it is. That is the reason economists always stress on implementing Capitalism in only those countries which are rich enough to sustain person-to-person competition.
Coming to your listed points, all points stress on single idea and that is "Capitalism widen gap between richs and poors." No doubt its true enough. But this doesn't make the Capitalism failure. Capitalism is important form of economy setup and the one resulting in most growth as well as economic development. Thus, it is important for global development.

I never said it's a total failure, I said that it has flaws and has to be fixed.

I recognize the technological advancements caused by Capitalism and that is good.

But on the other hand people are getting poorer each day, and jobs are lost to automation. How do you solve that issue?

I think a universal basic income is needed.

RealBitcoin

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Quote from: deisik on July 28, 2017, 07:18:47 AM

All talk and no walk

So you came here claiming that capitalism is bad, okay with that. Now you claim that communism is in fact badder and you say that there should be a better system than these two. And what is it specifically? What is your point beside mere enumeration of capitalism flaws, which we all are more or less familiar with? What is this "universal income" if you don't actually imply a variety of communism? That's what I mean by you being a "communist deep inside" (deep inside your self)

But you make it sound like only these 2 systems can exist, if you don't like one you must choose the other. Sounds like a false dichotomy.

Why can't there be a 3rd way. And what does UBI have to do with communism?

Communism was all about enslaving people in labor camps, UBI is about helping the poor. I think there is a lot of difference between it.

TheCoinFinder

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Every system comes with its excellance. We only people make it flawed. Some people perform capitalism affecting economy doing illegal activities.
Thus the government is slipshod and responsible

webtricks

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 26, 2017, 03:55:17 PM

Is Capitalism flawed? I used to believe that Capitalism solves issues, but if I really look around me, it actually only creates more issues that were not here before.

> There are many rich people with tons of capital but there are more unemployed people that will not have access to that

> People are living in luxury mansions and driving very expensive car, and then kids are starving in other places

> Profits of companies is going up, but real wages going down, people are living paycheck to paycheck

> Everyone is in debt, nobody has any savings, and most people are working part time jobs

> Nobody has a house, nobody can afford one, yet real estate speculators own thousands of them

> Banks have trillions of $ of money, but they still charge you 50$ / transaction because of their greed

> People have no future prospects, no career opportunity, they just live from paycheck to paycheck trying to pay off the debt and buy some shit GMO food filled with poison, because why sell healthy food to the public when the GMO food is more profitable?

It looks to me like Capitalism is flawed. Nobody has any money and everyone is suffering. I think a universal income must be implemented as fast as possible.

Surely, it is. That is the reason economists always stress on implementing Capitalism in only those countries which are rich enough to sustain person-to-person competition.
Coming to your listed points, all points stress on single idea and that is "Capitalism widen gap between richs and poors." No doubt its true enough. But this doesn't make the Capitalism failure. Capitalism is important form of economy setup and the one resulting in most growth as well as economic development. Thus, it is important for global development.

warrior333

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In General you are right, but there is one inaccuracy. Even under capitalism it is impossible to allow to the market was completely free. In all capitalist countries there are antitrust laws. This regulatory method allows you to control the market, so it is under capitalism, too, is not free.

hatshepsut93

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You guys might hate capitalism all you like, but remember that capitalism is essentially a free market, and any other system will always be a planned economy. And it's obvious to me that any planned economy system is not compatible with something as free and decentralized as Bitcoin. It removes ability to print more money, seize your funds easily, it's hard to trace and immutable, so there's no way any economically authoritarian system would allow it as legal payment method.

bitbunnny

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If you look back in the past you could see that no type of socitey is perfect. Capitalism also has its bad sides, especialy in some countries, but maybe is the best type so far. And there will always be rich and the poor no one can't solve this and we could never be equal. Maybe is time to invent some new type of society but how shoul it look like and will it be applicable in real life?
Afterall, Bitcoin is also one of the products of capitalism.

Rahar02

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Quote from: RealBitcoin on July 26, 2017, 03:55:17 PM

Is Capitalism flawed? I used to believe that Capitalism solves issues, but if I really look around me, it actually only creates more issues that were not here before.
~snip~
It looks to me like Capitalism is flawed. Nobody has any money and everyone is suffering. I think a universal income must be implemented as fast as possible.

That's how the world works these days because some people, let's call them "global elites" who control world economics through banks systems, they want to make it happen.
Most of countries in this world have debts to bank, and that's how they are doing something such as pushing countries to regulate or give them profits from agreements. Do you know how much USA debt to private central bank? More than all of US dollars in circulation.

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