Topic: Is Electroneum a SCAM??? - page 55. (Read 104906 times)

Electroneum is not only a mobile wallet, but a mobile miner. One that does not heat up your phone, cause your battery to drain quickly, or need a lot of disk space and data.

The difference between this and other coins is that every person will be able to get a small number of coins. This is perfect for newbies and noobs who've never heard of crypto before. It helps them get their feet wet. In addition, the accompanying mobile game is designed to teach them about cryptocurrencies and get them to mine with their desktops.

More users = more transactions = more businesses integrating ETN payments = better ETN ecosystem and increased value.

I've said many times in the past, the success of any coin lies in the number of users it has. If only 5% of US citizens used the dollar, would businesses go through the trouble of accepting it? Or would they rather accept a different currency which they can easily exchange for other currency/products/services? The more people that have the coin, the more valuable it becomes. Bitcoin managed to get about 3 million people involved in 7 years. If the ETN miner is as popular as many believe it will be, we will see this record broken very soon (there are already more than 400,000 accounts, 13% the user base of Bitcoin)!

BTC is and always was a work-in-progress though, and frankly, I've heard many people refer to it more like 'digital gold' where it's a store of value rather than an instant payment system. One of the other coins can be the payment mechanism of the future.

None of these coins are perfect and I would definitely like to see something gain traction (preferably something I hold or mine) but Electroneum just seems to have been managed in such a cack-handed manner and the development team seem more interested in self-indulgent social media posts than development (seriously, launching merch and tying it in with charity seems like a low blow somewhat) - I've seen a few videos where Richard comes across as a bit of a bumbling buffoon rather than a technical genius too (um, do another take if you don't get it right the first time maybe)? They also haven't explained how they're going to achieve their goals, even if they want to put it in layman's terms, someone will want to see the technical implementation.

I don't think you can pre-install this on everyones' phones, this sounds like a botnet in the making and even if you somehow could, what's the value in absolutely everyone being able to 'mine' (I put it in quotes as it's not mining, it's some weird centralised token distribution thing which they have glossed over) something? If that could happen then I can't see it having much actual value if you just give the stuff to anyone 'smart enough' to buy a smartphone

Anyway, I'll wait and see. All I know is the mess with the launch is stuff they should have sorted before, not during and if it has to be during, then a hell of a lot quicker than they have. I almost dismissed Bitcoin before, I won't ever say something is useless or bad until I have the evidence but, from my end anyway, Electroneum definitely smells a bit off and you know what Occam's Razor says...

But a wallet is not helping you, if you cant fill it. Imagine all the kids at school. All of them would install the app and send it from one to the other. Maybe some clever guys will sell homeworks for some ETN.
The fundamental difference is the perma airdrop which will not just give you an empty wallet but some coins to play around with.

edit: Have a look at this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuoqZBp7B-E
It is not polished at all but the viral effect of the app shown here could be enormous. It is really worth the time to get an idea of the potential.

Nice to see some sensible debate on this.

Question.  What about Electroneum's plans makes you think it can succeed where the hundreds of other projects that have attempted to crack the smart phone market have failed?

I mean, there are literally hundreds of projects with mobile wallets that work well.  Bitcoin for one! Transaction times too slow?  How about Dash?  Crown?  The list is endless.

Well said. Indeed it is rose tinted glas. And I am not denying that I am holding quite a good portion of ETN so I am obviously interested in the success of this coin.
And I am not denying technical aspects. But look at BTC. If it was an ICO these days it would be a complete mess. It is slow, it has extraordinary fees,... Monero is a far better technical base compared to Bitcoin. Zero proof protocol is groundbreaking and ZEC is doing okish. But compared to the disruptive technology it is underperforming.
At this point you have to admit that there must be more than just simple technical questions.

I see the huge opportunities for many businesses like telecom companies. Imagine if an african Vodafone would preinstall the app on all of their smartphones. If ETN just has little value they might attract a lot of people to buy from this provider. Actually it could make the phone bill pay itself.
I am far away from expecting it to moon. I dont see anything near 1$ in the next years because of the huge inflation caused by the perma airdrop. It also will not make huge instant jumps from one day to another. But with this viral bombs they can deliver they have the potential to attract a huge amount of people which would lead to partnerships with other companies.

And if I am wrong I will buy myself a really expensive bottle of whiskey to help me through my depressions 

Honestly, there’s too many rose-tinted glasses looking at this thing. There are some obvious questions that no-one has answered, like how giving coins to everyone is going to result in good intrinsic value, or why everyone is tolerating the wallet being offline for weeks (given that Ethermine EU went offline for a few hours and there was a massive ruckus) or how copying a codebase (not that there’s anything wrong with doing that) and some vague promises of mobile mining should result in a new coin?

The only thing I can see going for it is the massive hype and fanbase surrounding it might just be the one thing that saves it. It certainly won’t be it’s technical merit (you can’t dismiss technical in crypto, can you...). Anyway I have a little holding on that vague chance - I haven’t totally dismissed it, I’m just not buying into it as much as some of the big holders.

I am sure one day crypto will break out of the very small tech community, like PCs in the 90s. I don't know if ETN will do the job, but anyone will do it. And I doubt it will be one of the top 10 coins available now.

Oh dear.  Harry Redknapp has deleted his Electroneum tweet and is distancing himself from the project.

Maybe the Maria Sharapova news has freaked him out.

It's a strange behavior, but you need to keep digging to find out. There is a lot of scam exit nowadays. If it smells that bad better to get out IMO, it's not worth the risk.

Actually nobody is forced to believe or invest in Electroneum. If you don't want it, just don't do it!

I am aware that there is a lot of FUD from monero lovers fearing that ETN might become a risk to there own investments.
There are also the complaints of the tech preachers who always want to have technical development in the middle of everything.

But I am sure that noone has to fear ETN. They will bring a lot of people from developing countries into the crypto market which will push every Monero wallet too.
and an innovation doesn't have to be pure technically. This is a huge experiment with a perma airdrop of coins to millions of people. Noone ever did it. Noone ever even thought of it. This is enough innovation for me. And I can't predict what will happen to exchange rates with this massive perma airdrop. But I am excited to watch it. I might lose my money I invested in it, but actually this is crypto. It is always a huge bet and a huge risk. That is what it makes it attractive to many people including myself.

I don't think so. It seems to me that the developers need time for completion of the project. It will be seen. To say that the Scam is still early!

Received a mass-email from them just now.

After the security problems of the ICO they have taken a few days to safeguard their website - basically the system that allows ICO investors to withdraw their coins to offline wallets, as well as the mobile mining app system.

They then decided to bring on Hackerone, a software security company working with the Department of Defense, Coinbase, Spotify, etc. to help them test the system for any vulnerabilities. Hackerone is now busy testing and plan to test until early December.

It's true that most defenders of Electroneum are those with large investments. I myself have made a good investment and mined a truckload in the early hours of the blockchain. But with that said, I do believe in this coin. It has all the right ingredients to go viral and gain mass acceptance.

And since the strength of any currency lies in the number of users it has, this viral growth will enable it to grow with leaps and bounds.

Richard mentioned in his email that they plan to bring the system online within the first or second week of December.

Fingers crossed...

Why is everyone speaking in riddles?! Can't work out who is for and against this coin!

For clarification, I am not a firm believer. I have some hashpower pointed at it and have a small holding (I didn't do the ICO and I'm glad of that given they couldn't even smoothly launch that and still haven't) - given the die-hard fanbase of people who think this is the next big thing, if the hype is anything to go by, it might just work, even though I don't think much of the actual technical details behind it (virtually a direct copy of Monero with some wishy-washy stuff about 'mobile mining that isn't actually mobile mining or PoW') or some of the bumbling videos they've posted. I can see why it excites some people, but if they really think that simply owning a high-end mobile phone and running the Electroneum app is going to make them a millionaire by 2020 (which seems to be the premise a lot of people are sold on) then fair game. I am genuinely interested to see how this plays out, I have been wrong before, like glossing over Bitcoin years ago...

And consider the advice of people who know the industry.

All I can say is that make your findings before investing in an ICO, that's all

Read this whole page


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2353282.new#new



Contraband
ETN Community Manager

Fine - I read that but it's a lot of ifs and buts and claims about what they should and will 'maybe' do. So it's a cryptocurrency that is centralised because they will control it themselves? From what exactly? And then half the coins 'mined' on mobile and half on anything else - are these meant to be worth the same? So, 5 devices per IP? Well a cheap laptop will cost you maybe $50, so a handful of those emulating 5 phones and some connected to VPNs - now what?

Honestly, genuinely, I want to give it the benefit of doubt but it doesn't look good to me. The community is very good at weeding out frauds and most of the people who are defending Electroneum are doing so because they bought into the ICO and have a large (relative) stake. I am mining it myself just in case but only a very small percentage of my hashpower is pointing at it.

Also, what exactly is taking them so long to fix with the wallets and ICO tokens (I didn't buy into the ICO)? They have been doing lots of marketing but nothing on this wallet and ICO token issue - that's been very quiet. Their website just says 'WE WILL BE BACK AS SOON AS POSSIBLE', well that's been over a week.

I am not being aggressive, but if anyone else has some hard evidence that they are sorting things out their end, actually making improvements (fixing their wallet would be a good start), mobile mining being more than vapourware and not just what Richard claims or says on their social media page - because I've seen that and it doesn't stack up. I mean, how is this better than Monero which has proven its worth?

Having a LinkedIn page and telephone numbers does not make it 'not a scam', basically anyone with 'the internet' can order a pay-as-you-go SIM and create a LinkedIn page...

It does not sound like it is a scam if they have their linkedin page, and telephone numbers.

Allow me to explain...

It's true, there has been other mobile mining apps in the past. These apps mine for real and use the processing power on your phone to do actual mining and provide actual proof of work. However, this heats up the phone and drains the battery considerably. One would be better off buying a computer for the same money and using it to mine instead.

But Electroneum is doing something new by providing a mining "experience." Phones will not perform actual mining. However, the app will continually check your phone's available CPU power, and issue you coins based on that. A faster phone will therefore have a better hash rate than a slower phone. Playing a CPU-intensive game will temporarily decrease the hash rate of your phone. So the mobile miners emits coins based on the AVAILABLE CPU capacity.

In this way, the mining is very similar to real mining, but without your phone heating up and your battery dying within 3 hours.

The "mineable" coins are split into two groups of 7 billion coins each - one group for traditional mining (computers) and one for mobile mining. The difficulty on one won't affect the other. So the fact that computer miners have increased the difficulty considerably won't influence the emission of the mobile mining pool.

Electroneum will control the emission rate via an algorithm that takes into account the current price of the coin in dollar terms, the amount of miners worldwide, and the amount of coins still available. Richard mentioned that they will adjust the algorithm to optimize growth of Electroneum over the years. For example, if a lot of coins are being mined by only a handful of miners at the start they will reduce the emission rate to save coins for users that will join later on. And if too many users sign up in the first week they will reduce the emission rate to make sure all the coins are not mined away in a few weeks.

The mobile mining experience was never meant to safeguard the blockchain. So computer miners get rewarded for actual mining (and actually safeguarding the blockchain), but mobile miners get rewarded for providing a different utility - marketing and mass adoption. Perhaps they should have chosen a different name to describe it better. But their whole idea is to EDUCATE the public about cryptocurrencies and get them to run their own computer miners, and therefore the "mobile mining experience" name was indeed a good idea.


Since the mobile mining emission algorithm is centralized with the Electroneum team, they can weed out any users who try to game the system. For starters, they can block any "phone" or "emulated phone" that has a hash rate above the typical mobile hash rates. Secondly, Richard mentioned that they will only allow 5 mobile miners per IP. Therefore someone trying to run hundreds of emulated mobile miners on one computer will be banned.

If you watch the videos of Richard explaining this stuff, you realize that they have really thought this through!

Would you like to back that up at all? I have been following this, I even sent some of my hashpower their way 'just in case', but the post above yours about sums it up... if you've invested a lot of course you want it to work. Their wallet system has been down for over a week now and hasn't been given an update.

Also their 'mobile mining' is actually a background app that doesn't use CPU power on your phone, so it's like a 'proof-of-time' system just completely not implemented. Obviously they don't understand how the proof-of-work consensus system works (it's part of network security) or they are so arrogant that they think they can bamboozle the general public into believing this - if they're just handing out coins for running some app in the background, then who is actually mining or producing these coins? If it's that trivial then where is the security? If they're going to hand out coins based on the estimated power of your phone (not the phone's CPU) then who's to stop a computer emulating hundreds of Android phones as they're not actually doing any work (if there was real computation involved you cannot fake that)?

Too many unanswered questions and there are too many people trying to scam others with ICOs. From what I can work out, for an ICO all you need is a vaguely interesting project and tagline, work out which existing open-source codebase to rip-off, an excellent marketing machine (did you notice how all of Electroneum's 'team' are largely photogenic individuals) and drum up hype on social media = profit.