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Topic: is Greg Maxwell wrong about the block increase? - page 4. (Read 4413 times)

legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

Because a year ago, the  average was about half of what it is today and therefore we will be out of space in a other year, never mind spikes, never mind unforeseen factors, never mind the time it takes to get consensus and do a rollout.

Okay. The average block size is still less than half of the limit. So why couldn't Gavin and Mike continue to work within the core community again?

Because of precisely what I said in the OP.  Greg wants us to literally run out space before doing anything.  He and the other core devs don't want to act.

And Gavin doesn't agree.  Nor does Mike, Jeff, a handful of major companies, and an increasing majority of miners.

I am 90% certain XT will end up being just another altcoin. Have fun supporting it. Hey, I like a lot of altcoins. Nothing wrong with that. But pretending it will replace bitcoin anytime in the next 3 years is fanciful thinking. I've never held an alt where I thought that would be the case. Gavin should have at least had the courtesy to come up with his own name instead of riding bitcoin's coat tails.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

Bitcoin will never change human nature. I will just bring to area of freedom to escape the fiat system.

Human nature is always changing. The planet is far less murderous for the vast majority of society than it was just 200 years ago. To pretend that we are all still apes, driven by base instincts, who would claw each other to death over a pile of food is to ignore the ongoing evolution of human nature.

You want to drag us back in time while technology demands peace, stability and open-mindedness in order to progress. Greed is dumb.


amen brother!




legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

Bitcoin will never change human nature. I will just bring to area of freedom to escape the fiat system.

Human nature is always changing. The planet is far less murderous for the vast majority of society than it was just 200 years ago. To pretend that we are all still apes, driven by base instincts, who would claw each other to death over a pile of food is to ignore the ongoing evolution of human nature.

You want to drag us back in time while technology demands peace, stability and open-mindedness in order to progress. Greed is dumb.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Because a year ago, the  average was about half of what it is today and therefore we will be out of space in a other year, never mind spikes, never mind unforeseen factors, never mind the time it takes to get consensus and do a rollout.

Okay. The average block size is still less than half of the limit. So why couldn't Gavin and Mike continue to work within the core community again?

Because of precisely what I said in the OP.  Greg wants us to literally run out space before doing anything.  He and the other core devs don't want to act.

And Gavin doesn't agree.  Nor does Mike, Jeff, a handful of major companies, and an increasing majority of miners.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money.  

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.

Miners have no choice to follow the market makers unless they want to mine a worthless coin. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Bitcoin holders are the market makers. not the miners, not the companies, not the devs, and certainly not the masses.

Speculators will go where the market makers are too.


speculators are the market's friggin nervous system!!

And speculators will follow the big money, to make money...
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?


I agree but bitcoin can't be corrupted the way fiat as been corrupted.

Sure it can. If you live in New York state, it has already been corrupted.

These companies want to make a profit using this sound money and bringing it to the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with that.

We don't need them. Nobody does. We need more altruists and evangelists leading the charge -- people who don't lead profit-driven lives. We already have waaaaay too many of those, which is what allows things like the stock market crash of 2008 to happen. Nobody except for you, Mike & Gavin wants them in bitcoin.

Bitcoin will never change human nature. I will just bring to area of freedom to escape the fiat system.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money.  

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.

Miners have no choice to follow the market makers unless they want to mine a worthless coin. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Bitcoin holders are the market makers. not the miners, not the companies, not the devs, and certainly not the masses.

Speculators will go where the market makers are too.

speculators are the market's friggin nervous system!!
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money.  

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.

Miners have no choice to follow the market makers unless they want to mine a worthless coin. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Bitcoin holders are the market makers. not the miners, not the companies, not the devs, and certainly not the masses.

Speculators will go where the market makers are too.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

Because a year ago, the  average was about half of what it is today and therefore we will be out of space in a other year, never mind spikes, never mind unforeseen factors, never mind the time it takes to get consensus and do a rollout.

Okay. The average block size is still less than half of the limit. So why couldn't Gavin and Mike continue to work within the core community again?
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002
You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money.  

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.

Miners have no choice to follow the market makers unless they want to mine a worthless coin. You are delusional if you think otherwise.

Bitcoin holders are the market makers. not the miners, not the companies, not the devs, and certainly not the masses.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114


I agree but bitcoin can't be corrupted the way fiat as been corrupted.

Sure it can. If you live in New York state, it has already been corrupted.

These companies want to make a profit using this sound money and bringing it to the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with that.

We don't need them. Nobody does. We need more altruists and evangelists leading the charge -- people who don't lead profit-driven lives. We already have waaaaay too many of those, which is what allows things like the stock market crash of 2008 to happen. Nobody except for you, Mike & Gavin wants them in bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1008
Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political
We have at least 2 more years before the block size limit actually starts mattering on a significant scale:

https://blockchain.info/charts/avg-block-size?timespan=all&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1

The moving average for this years block size has been about 0.4 - 0.44 MBs.

So Gavin couldn't negotiate with the core devs any longer and had to get his coin out ASAP because... why?

The fact that he is backed by a throng of finance industry CEOs diminishes merit from his arguments. We don't care what the already-rich think. Bitcoin isn't for them.

Because a year ago, the  average was about half of what it is today and therefore we will be out of space in a other year, never mind spikes, never mind unforeseen factors, never mind the time it takes to get consensus and do a rollout.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?
You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money. 

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.

Miners have no choice to follow the market makers unless they want to mine a worthless coin. You are delusional if you think otherwise.
hero member
Activity: 644
Merit: 504
Bitcoin replaces central, not commercial, banks

Because big boys are asking so and won't wait any longer for obvious reasons. The limit also limit these companies to mass marketeer their products.

http://blog.blockchain.com/2015/08/24/industry-endorses-bigger-blocks-and-bip101/

The right thing to do would be to not cave into their selfish demands.

They clearly have only their own pockets in mind.

Well, bitcoin is money. What do you expect? You expect these companies that have invested millions to run at a loss without making profits forever? You expect them to loose their investment without doing anything because bitcoin doesn't scale ?

These companies were sold by Gavin & Mike the idea that "bitcoin doesn't scale" and that their business will suffer because of it. They are somehow under the impression that current block size impedes their growth and is a danger to the future growth they themselves sold to their investors.

Growth projection is a very tricky thing but if we are to believe the current trend we are still quite below the current limit and should stay so for awhile. There was no reasonable basis for those so-called industry "leaders" to precipitate the issue and stand behind one "solution" when it was clear the model had considerable opposition from various actors in the ecosystem. Especially seeing as the Scaling Bitcoin workshops had shown encouraging signs that a legitimate resolution process was starting to take place that could hopefully reconcile everyone and re-establish consensus.

This is simply a hack job of lobbying by the XT developers to force the issue by pulling strings using their industry influence.



Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

yea, our money. not them parasites VCs straight from the printers BS money.

decentralized consensus: not gonna happen. Cheesy

You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.  Bitcoin is not more your money than their money. 

How can you be so oblivious in the face of reality?

BIP101 as implemented and supported by these companies is never going to see the light of the day. Miners are openly against such an increase. These company have been ridiculed in the span of only a week for supporting an openly dismissed proposal all because of Gavin.

It's a sad sad sight that all these "entrepreneurs" and VC can't think for themselves.
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?

Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

Because money talks far too much is the reason why bitcoin has any value today.

Money will always talk because of human nature, bitcoin will be no different in this aspect. Bitcoin has value today because it is sound money.

Wrong. Bitcoin has value today because useless, greed-driven middlemen haven't figured out a way to corrupt it and get their cut from it yet.

I agree but bitcoin can't be corrupted the way fiat as been corrupted. These companies want to make a profit using this sound money and bringing it to the mainstream. There is nothing wrong with that.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

Because money talks far too much is the reason why bitcoin has any value today.

Money will always talk because of human nature, bitcoin will be no different in this aspect. Bitcoin has value today because it is sound money.

Wrong. Bitcoin has value today because useless, greed-driven middlemen haven't figured out a way to corrupt it and get their cut from it yet.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

Because money talks far too much is the reason why bitcoin has any value today.

Money will always talk because of human nature, bitcoin will be no different in this aspect. Bitcoin has value today because it is sound money.

bitcoin has value today because no business, dev or whatever government has its hands on it. and they never will.
you're too late, train is gone.

Bitcoin is ours. Cool



legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 1000
--------------->¿?

Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

Because money talks far too much is the reason why bitcoin has any value today.

Money will always talk because of human nature, bitcoin will be no different in this aspect. Bitcoin has value today because it is sound money.
legendary
Activity: 3010
Merit: 8114

Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

Because money talks far too much is the reason why bitcoin has any value today.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1002

Because big boys are asking so and won't wait any longer for obvious reasons. The limit also limit these companies to mass marketeer their products.

http://blog.blockchain.com/2015/08/24/industry-endorses-bigger-blocks-and-bip101/

The right thing to do would be to not cave into their selfish demands.

They clearly have only their own pockets in mind.

Well, bitcoin is money. What do you expect? You expect these companies that have invested millions to run at a loss without making profits forever? You expect them to loose their investment without doing anything because bitcoin doesn't scale ?

These companies were sold by Gavin & Mike the idea that "bitcoin doesn't scale" and that their business will suffer because of it. They are somehow under the impression that current block size impedes their growth and is a danger to the future growth they themselves sold to their investors.

Growth projection is a very tricky thing but if we are to believe the current trend we are still quite below the current limit and should stay so for awhile. There was no reasonable basis for those so-called industry "leaders" to precipitate the issue and stand behind one "solution" when it was clear the model had considerable opposition from various actors in the ecosystem. Especially seeing as the Scaling Bitcoin workshops had shown encouraging signs that a legitimate resolution process was starting to take place that could hopefully reconcile everyone and re-establish consensus.

This is simply a hack job of lobbying by the XT developers to force the issue by pulling strings using their industry influence.



Yup but the cold reality is that at the end of the day, money talks.

yea, our money. not them parasites VCs straight from the printers BS money.

decentralized consensus: not gonna happen. Cheesy

You can laugh all you want but it won't change the fact that these company with their BS money have more influence than you and me. You'd better accept this sooner than later.

lol never..

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