Is institutional capital good or bad for Bitcoin?

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Quote from: TheUltraElite on September 10, 2020, 01:05:10 AM

Quote from: wanted sliter on September 09, 2020, 04:40:17 AM

Bitcoin is satisfying to be an instant liquid currency and also satisfying to be an asset like gold.

What is the meaning of "satisfying" here? Liquidity in bitcoin is still very difficult to attain. Many countries dont allow it to be transacted and some have been banning the use of it. Fiat is more liquid here.

Bitcoin should also not be compared to any precious metal. They are many difference between the two. Price is not a point is comparison of assets, rather the asset class is.

Quote

But currently, the bitcoin market capitalization is too small compared to other currencies or assets, so bitcoin is easier to manipulate,

Correct statement but wrong conclusion. Manipulation exists in every market, just that we dont see it clearly. It is a half-truth to sway on that motion but without volatility there would not be any interest in trading an asset.

Institutional capital helps manipulate bitcoin - it is possible but not confirmed and neither provable. This should not matter to retail investors though.

What is lacking is regulation but that is a topic for another discussion.

Quote

especially with bitcoin derivatives such as margin, future, ETF. is riskier in investment.

But those are niche products to trade on. Not every exchange allows those. Moreover, ETFs are not yet prominent in BTC yet.

Yes, before there are some of the countries don't like Bitcoin and they banned it as well, but as time goes by there are also some country who banned Bitcoin revoke it, were right they've adapted the concept system that bitcoin has. Meaning, We cannot deny that some of the institution capitalist are investing into bitcoin too because they something about it wherein some didn't see it.

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Quote from: deisik on August 05, 2020, 06:06:45 PM

Quote from: jaysabi on August 05, 2020, 03:03:10 PM

Quote from: erikoy on August 05, 2020, 10:01:44 AM

Quote from: bitbunnny on August 05, 2020, 03:13:19 AM

Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I agree that institutional capital is good for Bitcoin, especially in terms of adoption, however I don't think that will influence the Bitcoin's volatility. Bitcoin is not functioning as traditional currencies and volatility is part of it's functioning, Bitcoin is not stable but its nature. No amount of investment will make Bitcoin to become stable currency.

Bitcoin is like a product to which its value will depend on the demand of its consumers. Institutional investment is all about having money to purchase like real estate property to which it is more solid form of investment compared to bitcoin. However, it needs a huge capital which only few could afford to do it. Besides even if one can afford to invest in real estate property but still bitcoin has the edge of earning huge compared to institutional investment but it could be more risky than institutional investment.

That's not what institutional investment is. Institutional investors are simply people who manage large pools of assets on behalf of a group, like a sovereign wealth fund or pension managers. When seeking capital, companies like to target institutional investors because of the large pools of capital they have and are looking for investment. The amount of institutional investment happening in crypto is extremely small

And why is it so small?

Right, because all those sovereign wealth fund and pension managers cannot invest in cryptocurrencies as their investment declarations don't list crypto as a legitimate asset for investment. Aside from that, you wouldn't really want your pension money invested in a speculative asset with nearly zero real life use. From their point of view (and it is not very far from how things stand in practice), crypto is just one big casino. Would you play with your life savings in a casino? Even if you would, most people wouldn't

.

Couldn’t agree more. I would not my retirement assets invested in risky assets that are nothing better than a pure gamble. The problem with crypto is it doesn’t create cash flow and it never will, which means the only way you can ever make money on it is to sell it to someone else for more than you paid for it. Hard pass.

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So anyway, I applied as a merit source :)

Quote from: wanted sliter on September 09, 2020, 04:40:17 AM

Bitcoin is satisfying to be an instant liquid currency and also satisfying to be an asset like gold.

What is the meaning of "satisfying" here? Liquidity in bitcoin is still very difficult to attain. Many countries dont allow it to be transacted and some have been banning the use of it. Fiat is more liquid here.

Bitcoin should also not be compared to any precious metal. They are many difference between the two. Price is not a point is comparison of assets, rather the asset class is.

Quote

But currently, the bitcoin market capitalization is too small compared to other currencies or assets, so bitcoin is easier to manipulate,

Correct statement but wrong conclusion. Manipulation exists in every market, just that we dont see it clearly. It is a half-truth to sway on that motion but without volatility there would not be any interest in trading an asset.

Institutional capital helps manipulate bitcoin - it is possible but not confirmed and neither provable. This should not matter to retail investors though.

What is lacking is regulation but that is a topic for another discussion.

Quote

especially with bitcoin derivatives such as margin, future, ETF. is riskier in investment.

But those are niche products to trade on. Not every exchange allows those. Moreover ETFs are not yet prominent in BTC yet.

wanted sliter

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Bitcoin is satisfying to be an instant liquid currency and also satisfying to be an asset like gold.
But currently, the bitcoin market capitalization is too small compared to other currencies or assets, so bitcoin is easier to manipulate, especially with bitcoin derivatives such as margin, future, ETF. is riskier in investment.

0nline

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his is really why we need bitcoin to be more of a usable currency than just a speculative asset as that would give them more chance to take hold of the market strongly and be able to control it however they wish and like. These are guys who have been living their lives manipulating the fiat system, what makes us think the same will not happen in this scenario with bitcoin. I am still sure what we are experiencing right now is institutional played, so the answer to the OP's question is glaring from what we are seeing in the market presently.

iv4n

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Many times it was said here, bitcoin is here where it is (at current price and popularity) because of the people, but next wave that will push the price very high will be from money invested by institutions and corporations. Any capital that comes into bitcoin is good, it will boost entire market, institutional, from corporation, or anyone else is good. More money into crypto is good for all of us, as long as demand rising, there're more chances for price to sky rocket!

Shasha80

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For me, institutional capital is very good for Bitcoin, as we all know institutional firms have a large capital. Imagine they are going
to buy Bitcoin in large quantities, I believe the Bitcoin price will fly high. And there will be volatile prices, We must immediately use
this for taking profit. It's no longer a theory that they will dump Bitcoin after buying large amounts of Bitcoin. We as small fish must
be able to sell the Bitcoin we have before this happens. And it should be in the long run if more institutional firms enter the Bitcoin
market, it can have a good effect on Bitcoin. It's not even possible Bitcoin can truly be a global currency.

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Quote from: jaysabi on August 05, 2020, 03:03:10 PM

Quote from: erikoy on August 05, 2020, 10:01:44 AM

Quote from: bitbunnny on August 05, 2020, 03:13:19 AM

Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I agree that institutional capital is good for Bitcoin, especially in terms of adoption, however I don't think that will influence the Bitcoin's volatility. Bitcoin is not functioning as traditional currencies and volatility is part of it's functioning, Bitcoin is not stable but its nature. No amount of investment will make Bitcoin to become stable currency.

Bitcoin is like a product to which its value will depend on the demand of its consumers. Institutional investment is all about having money to purchase like real estate property to which it is more solid form of investment compared to bitcoin. However, it needs a huge capital which only few could afford to do it. Besides even if one can afford to invest in real estate property but still bitcoin has the edge of earning huge compared to institutional investment but it could be more risky than institutional investment.

That's not what institutional investment is. Institutional investors are simply people who manage large pools of assets on behalf of a group, like a sovereign wealth fund or pension managers. When seeking capital, companies like to target institutional investors because of the large pools of capital they have and are looking for investment. The amount of institutional investment happening in crypto is extremely small

And why is it so small?

Right, because all those sovereign wealth fund and pension managers cannot invest in cryptocurrencies as their investment declarations don't list crypto as a legitimate asset for investment. Aside from that, you wouldn't really want your pension money invested in a speculative asset with nearly zero real life use. From their point of view (and it is not very far from how things stand in practice), crypto is just one big casino. Would you play with your life savings in a casino? Even if you would, most people wouldn't

jaysabi

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Quote from: erikoy on August 05, 2020, 10:01:44 AM

Quote from: bitbunnny on August 05, 2020, 03:13:19 AM

Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I agree that institutional capital is good for Bitcoin, especially in terms of adoption, however I don't think that will influence the Bitcoin's volatility. Bitcoin is not functioning as traditional currencies and volatility is part of it's functioning, Bitcoin is not stable but its nature. No amount of investment will make Bitcoin to become stable currency.

Bitcoin is like a product to which its value will depend on the demand of its consumers. Institutional investment is all about having money to purchase like real estate property to which it is more solid form of investment compared to bitcoin. However, it needs a huge capital which only few could afford to do it. Besides even if one can afford to invest in real estate property but still bitcoin has the edge of earning huge compared to institutional investment but it could be more risky than institutional investment.

That's not what institutional investment is. Institutional investors are simply people who manage large pools of assets on behalf of a group, like a sovereign wealth fund or pension managers. When seeking capital, companies like to target institutional investors because of the large pools of capital they have and are looking for investment. The amount of institutional investment happening in crypto is extremely small.

Polo7

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I Think wall street will soon all invest in btc
Cryptocurrency is unregulated but Once the Wall street has the big chunk of cryptocurrency the regulations will be placed.

I think fiat and Not Only fiat but Even stock market Not survive, so cryptocurrency is new thing and btc as a sacred asset is Perfect hedge.

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Quote from: bitbunnny on August 05, 2020, 03:13:19 AM

Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I agree that institutional capital is good for Bitcoin, especially in terms of adoption, however I don't think that will influence the Bitcoin's volatility. Bitcoin is not functioning as traditional currencies and volatility is part of it's functioning, Bitcoin is not stable but its nature. No amount of investment will make Bitcoin to become stable currency.

Bitcoin is like a product to which its value will depend on the demand of its consumers. Institutional investment is all about having money to purchase like real estate property to which it is more solid form of investment compared to bitcoin. However, it needs a huge capital which only few could afford to do it. Besides even if one can afford to invest in real estate property but still bitcoin has the edge of earning huge compared to institutional investment but it could be more risky than institutional investment.

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Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I agree that institutional capital is good for Bitcoin, especially in terms of adoption, however I don't think that will influence the Bitcoin's volatility. Bitcoin is not functioning as traditional currencies and volatility is part of it's functioning, Bitcoin is not stable but its nature. No amount of investment will make Bitcoin to become stable currency.

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Quote from: Ridwan Fauzi on August 04, 2020, 11:22:01 AM

Yeah you need $90 M that can be able to just manipulate 1% in bitcoin price movement, meaning it would be hard to do unless there is a person or some billionare who join together to manipulate bitcoin's price movement and I think it is impossible. As for the volatility price of bitcoin, I don't know I really believe that the future market will make bitcoin price become stable

It is impossible to make Bitcoin stable through currency exchanges

As you notice correctly, some billionaire can easily manipulate the prices of the whole cryptocurrency market (in fact, manipulating Bitcoin alone will suffice for most practical purposes). So are we stuck in an endless self-enforcing and self-sustaining volatility and manipulation loop? A short answer is, there's no definitive answer. A longer one is, it depends of further developments

On the one hand, if Bitcoin remains only an asset for speculative gains (which it is at the moment), manipulation along with volatility is not going anywhere. On the other, however, if most bitcoins are used as a currency (like fiat), market manipulation will become prohibitively expensive as no one will be selling coins below their true value and no one buying above that value as determined by circulation and the entirety of goods and services which can be bought with it

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Quote from: Police Indo on August 04, 2020, 10:54:18 AM

if indeed the institution firms will join the BTC, then it is certain the price will be higher, and BTC will become a commodity of trading assets. because if only as a transaction tool, the price is too volatile. the potential for a dump and pump is suddenly too large

Well, that shouldn't be the right way to solve the problem of extreme price volatility.
There are safe and decentralized ways to minimize volatility that will not rely on centralized entities. Imagine a group of foreign cells regulating the human body from the outside. That's how cryptos hope to solve problems in their decentralized networks.

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Quote from: Darooghe on October 29, 2019, 12:43:11 PM

Definitely it's a good thing. there is no way to solve bitcoin volatility unless somebody wanted to invest a lot of money to stabilize the price, buying bitcoin when the price relative to a particular fiat currency goes below the target, and selling bitcoin when the price goes above the target. Without such a stabilizing force, bitcoin will remain volatile while it is in the early stages of adoption and demand is fluctuating and ultimately unknown. when more institutional investors come to the Bitcoin market, we should see volatility decrease, and this problem will be solved soon. Hence, institutional investors help a greater adoption with their funds.

I don't know if there is a person who can be able to manipulate bitcoin's price movement. There is a thread who discuss how much money that you can increase/decrease bitcoin price just 1% you can read here https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/how-much-btc-would-you-need-to-buy-to-increase-the-price-by-1-percent-5265030

Yeah you need $90 M that can be able to just manipulate 1% in bitcoin price movement, meaning it would be hard to do unless there is a person or some billionare who join together to manipulate bitcoin's price movement and I think it is impossible. As for the volatility price of bitcoin, I don't know I really believe that the future market will make bitcoin price become stable.

Police Indo

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if indeed the institution firms will join the BTC, then it is certain the price will be higher, and BTC will become a commodity of trading assets. because if only as a transaction tool, the price is too volatile. the potential for a dump and pump is suddenly too large

Arkann

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Generally, institutional capital in the cryptocurrency market is a big investment in cryptocurrency. In any case, this has a very positive effect on Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, because investors are investing their funds, even despite the great volatility of cryptocurrencies. It is noted that a significant part of the institutional capital directed to cryptocurrency comes precisely from the European Union, since there are more loyal laws for investing in cryptocurrency and, apparently, a situation is created that other assets bring less income and therefore investors are interested in the cryptocurrency market. In addition, one should take into account the fact that large investments in Bitcoin will increase capitalization, which will lead to a significant rise in the price of Bitcoin.

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Institutional capital is good and bad for Bitcoin, in my sense. It may increase Bitcoin's value, opportunities, area of work, and also can decrease the stability of Bitcoin. It can volatile it's the price as many ups and downs. Although this is a massive change to Bitcoin itself, this change can be brought about under certain conditions so that Bitcoin's losses can be minimized and in this age of globalization, Bitcoin will take on a new form.

coinfinger

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I have seen a lot being said about these institutions and their plans with bitcoin. Some have said that with institutions the price of bitcoin will turn stable and will no longer stagger from one side to another, we all know for sure that bitcoin is highly volatile. And from what I have observed, there are people who want the institution to start investing in Bitcoin because they know it for sure that the price will go to the moon and will make lots of profit, that's why a lot of people wanted Bakkt, but they were disappointed (though I have seen news that Bakkt will gain lots of investment soon).

If institutions start to invest in bitcoin there is going to be an increase, and I don't think any of these institutions are ready to invest for the long term, they will even be the worst competition, none of them would leave their investment in bitcoin seeing that the price is falling.

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Quote from: Serco on October 29, 2019, 12:14:49 PM

Quote from: Suslived on October 29, 2019, 11:24:09 AM

While I'm happy and optimistic that the price will just go to the moon, I don't agree with the statement that institutional money will bring in more volatility. In fact, I believe the opposite will happen and bitcoin and crypto will become more stable the more institutions invest in it. The thing is, institutional money means it's harder for crypto to get manipulated because malicious actors will need more money just to make the price move, it's a safety net of it's own.

institutional didnt bring negative impact only.they just try to add market capitalization although sometime they ofte use their resources to make market crash and takw their own advantages.but in other sight, when institutional coming to crypto market, its means they judge crypto market was worthed to invest.and hype will coming after their review.

If institutional can bring positive effect for bitcoin maybe better for for bitcoin at the future, but if institutional give bad thing for bitcoin we do not need them. Many institutional want to make bitcoin become down and lower price where investor left asset assets from bitcoin to other investment way, if can bring light for bitcoin at the future will positive way for bitcoin and altcoin.

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