Is it possible to recognize that someone is using 2nd hand account? - page 3.

Heutenamos

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Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:32:53 AM

No I just showed you how waste is your thought process.

You are stating your opinions and i don't expect anything else from a judgmental guy who can do nothing other than labeling/abusing people.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:32:53 AM

You don't want scammers to be banned.

No, because ban is a complete different issue and they deserve it when they go against forum rules (not yours or mine)

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:32:53 AM

You don't want any actions to be taken against them.

The actions against them are pretty solid and consensus already.I don't have a habit to force people to accept my brand of logic (particularly when it is full of bullshit)

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:32:53 AM

You want people to get scammed by the same person again & again.

If they are lacking common sense and have no motivation towards their own safety then YES. Such people can only learn from punishments/scams/losses and not from advises,bans or anything else.

sardasa

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Activity: 1064

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Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 06:28:35 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:19:49 AM

You were the one who brought this topic forward & mixed real life incidents with scams happening on this forum.
Get your concepts/thoughts clear 1st Sir, then comment!

I didn't compared it to real life ,i explained you how they are unstoppable. Though what was the question for ? You need legal lawsuit to identify alt's ?

No I just showed you how flawed is your thought process.
You don't want scammers to be banned. You don't want any actions to be taken against them. You want people to get scammed by the same person again & again.

sardasa

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Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

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Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 06:24:10 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:59:19 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

You failed as you cant explain why it should be less likely for a Jr. to scam than it would be for a Newbie to scam. The ranks vary obviously. From what I see in the scam accusation thread, the largest chunks are newbies. When newbie are no longer allowed to post in the marketplace section it is my assumption that they would either result to PMs (you might want to restrict that as well?) or just wait until they are Jr. Again having waiting 30 days so not make anyone trustworthy.

Yes, why not? Instead of showing the Red warning just ban the feature of allowing Newbies to send PMs.
If they want to say something to someone, let it be in open. Anyways, they would not be allowed to trade so they won't be leaking out their payment processor information.

"Leaking out their payment processor information?" What does that mean?

It means they don't have to fear about someone trying to access their payment processor a/c as it would be in open on the forum. (Its advised not to give this information in open instead give in via PM)

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 06:24:10 AM

I dont see how it will result in less scams. If anything it will result in no scams by newbies and more scams by Jr. members.

At least we'll make scammers work hard before they scam here by working on their account & posting something useful on some topics (if its not useful & is spam then its deleted by mod's anyways)

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 06:24:10 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:59:19 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

No, some to the largest scams have been pulled by established members. E.g. see tradefortress, the user once on default trust, now banned (not for the scam) and with the lowest possible trust score (-9999).

Read that wrong.

What makes you think that is true?

What makes you think that's wrong?

I see high ranked members getting scammed with the easiest schemes.

Did I say that implementing rules would stop scams?
Scams would continue to happen even after we implement these restrictions. No matter what you do scams would happen!
Least we can do is try to prevent them.

Implementing these measures does not means that anyone should trust anyone blindly. You still would have to use your head before dealing with anyone & you would still be dealing at your own risk on this forum.
It will just add one extra layer of security & there would less of exit scammers.

Heutenamos

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 06:19:49 AM

You were the one who brought this topic forward & mixed real life incidents with scams happening on this forum.
Get your concepts/thoughts clear 1st Sir, then comment!

I didn't compared it to real life ,i explained you how they are unstoppable. Though what was the question for ? You need legal lawsuit to identify alt's ?

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:59:19 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

You failed as you cant explain why it should be less likely for a Jr. to scam than it would be for a Newbie to scam. The ranks vary obviously. From what I see in the scam accusation thread, the largest chunks are newbies. When newbie are no longer allowed to post in the marketplace section it is my assumption that they would either result to PMs (you might want to restrict that as well?) or just wait until they are Jr. Again having waiting 30 days so not make anyone trustworthy.

Yes, why not? Instead of showing the Red warning just ban the feature of allowing Newbies to send PMs.
If they want to say something to someone, let it be in open. Anyways, they would not be allowed to trade so they won't be leaking out their payment processor information.

"Leaking out their payment processor information?" What does that mean?

I dont see how it will result in less scams. If anything it will result in no scams by newbies and more scams by Jr. members.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:59:19 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

No, some to the largest scams have been pulled by established members. E.g. see tradefortress, the user once on default trust, now banned (not for the scam) and with the lowest possible trust score (-9999).

Read that wrong.

What makes you think that is true?

What makes you think that's wrong?

I see high ranked members getting scammed with the easiest schemes.

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 06:17:31 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:10:13 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Yes but what if the guy himself scams after building all the reputation required to do one ?
what after making a scam accusation against him ? does it solves the issue ? No, the scam has already taken place and there is no fruit in banning the scammer/user except the useless satisfaction of the victim.

You added it later, that's why could not reply to it.
Lets say your family member is murdered brutally by someone. Now tell what would you do?

I cannot do anything unless i have some valid evidence bout it. Generally i contact the police and sort that out ,it's possible that the member was not a good guy and his murder was a good thing ?

Now, do you think that the local forum scams can/should be compared to life and death situations or even to legal issues ? Get things right Kid.

You were the one who brought this topic forward & mixed real life incidents with scams happening on this forum.
Get your concepts/thoughts clear 1st Sir, then comment!

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Most of the forum agrees to it because what you say is utter foolishness with no achievements by doing it.People should have the common sense to understand the consequences of their trade/deal whatever.

Now,if we put your question out of the forum then what are governments doing for the ton load of scams ,crimes increasing day by day ? It never ends and the best solution is that the people should take the required precautionary measures.

Heutenamos

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:10:13 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Yes but what if the guy himself scams after building all the reputation required to do one ?
what after making a scam accusation against him ? does it solves the issue ? No, the scam has already taken place and there is no fruit in banning the scammer/user except the useless satisfaction of the victim.

You added it later, that's why could not reply to it.
Lets say your family member is murdered brutally by someone. Now tell what would you do?

I cannot do anything unless i have some valid evidence bout it. Generally i contact the police and sort that out ,it's possible that the member was not a good guy and his murder was a good thing ?

Now, do you think that the local forum scams can/should be compared to life and death situations or even to legal issues ? Get things right Kid.

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

You failed as you cant explain why it should be less likely for a Jr. to scam than it would be for a Newbie to scam. The ranks vary obviously. From what I see in the scam accusation thread, the largest chunks are newbies. When newbie are no longer allowed to post in the marketplace section it is my assumption that they would either result to PMs (you might want to restrict that as well?) or just wait until they are Jr. Again having waiting 30 days so not make anyone trustworthy.

Yes, why not? Instead of showing the Red warning just ban the feature of allowing Newbies to send PMs.
If they want to say something to someone, let it be in open. Anyways, they would not be allowed to trade so they won't be leaking out their payment processor information.

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:49:53 AM

No, some to the largest scams have been pulled by established members. E.g. see tradefortress, the user once on default trust, now banned (not for the scam) and with the lowest possible trust score (-9999).

Read that wrong.

What makes you think that is true?

What makes you think that's wrong?

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:20:42 AM

-snip-
I have not studied law. So, can not think of better arguments to convince you.

What?

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:20:42 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:16:03 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:12:10 AM

-snip-
None of the admin/mod is supposed to spend 24 hours on this forum.
If you read my earlier replies, I am asking for rules/policies to be implemented by coding these features not manual intervention.
Once they're coded then its all automated, there is no moderation required.

Your only suggestion in that regard was to prevent newbies from using the marketplace section. You failed to establish how that would reduce the number of scams.

How did I fail? Can you tell me whats the account statuses of users involved in scams?

You failed as you cant explain why it should be less likely for a Jr. to scam than it would be for a Newbie to scam. The ranks vary obviously. From what I see in the scam accusation thread, the largest chunks are newbies. When newbie are no longer allowed to post in the marketplace section it is my assumption that they would either result to PMs (you might want to restrict that as well?) or just wait until they are Jr. Again having waiting 30 days so not make anyone trustworthy.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:20:42 AM

If you are on this forum for lets say 2-3 months then the likeliness/probability of this user being completely unaware of how scammers work reduces to some extent.

No, some to the largest scams have been pulled by established members. E.g. see tradefortress, the user once on default trust, now banned (not for the scam) and with the lowest possible trust score (-9999).

Read that wrong.

What makes you think that is true?

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:16:03 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:13:35 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:03:52 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:50:45 AM

Quote from: sho_road_warrior on December 24, 2015, 03:48:54 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 23, 2015, 06:48:26 PM

If you go by my 1st logic: Selling accounts SHOULD NOT be permitted. If you sell your account even on other site then also you are held responsible for anything that happens with this account. Lets say if your account is hacked then forum admin can drop an e-mail to your registered e-mail id & inform you to login ASAP and see what's wrong with the account. Similarly if hacker did any scam using your a/c then you should repay for the losses.

So I get a mail, how does that hold me responsible for a scam with the account I just sold off-site?

You will have scam accusation thread against YOU.
In any case, if you have sold the account then you won't care about what's happening with your account BUT if we had this POLICY that accounts can not be sold then YOU would have been held responsible for this & YOUR account should have been banned.

How? You just have my mail address.

If you'll have some self-respect then you would get guilty conscious.
In any case it'll prevent others from being scammed by adopting the same technique.

So your only actualy defense against scammer is the hopes that they will have a guily conscious? Im not convinced.

I have not studied law. So, can not think of better arguments to convince you.

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:16:03 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:12:10 AM

-snip-
None of the admin/mod is supposed to spend 24 hours on this forum.
If you read my earlier replies, I am asking for rules/policies to be implemented by coding these features not manual intervention.
Once they're coded then its all automated, there is no moderation required.

Your only suggestion in that regard was to prevent newbies from using the marketplace section. You failed to establish how that would reduce the number of scams.

How did I fail? Can you tell me whats the account statuses of users involved in scams?
If you are on this forum for lets say 2-3 months then the likeliness/probability of this user being completely unaware of how scammers work reduces to some extent.

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:13:35 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:03:52 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:50:45 AM

Quote from: sho_road_warrior on December 24, 2015, 03:48:54 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 23, 2015, 06:48:26 PM

If you go by my 1st logic: Selling accounts SHOULD NOT be permitted. If you sell your account even on other site then also you are held responsible for anything that happens with this account. Lets say if your account is hacked then forum admin can drop an e-mail to your registered e-mail id & inform you to login ASAP and see what's wrong with the account. Similarly if hacker did any scam using your a/c then you should repay for the losses.

So I get a mail, how does that hold me responsible for a scam with the account I just sold off-site?

You will have scam accusation thread against YOU.
In any case, if you have sold the account then you won't care about what's happening with your account BUT if we had this POLICY that accounts can not be sold then YOU would have been held responsible for this & YOUR account should have been banned.

How? You just have my mail address.

If you'll have some self-respect then you would get guilty conscious.
In any case it'll prevent others from being scammed by adopting the same technique.

So your only actualy defense against scammer is the hopes that they will have a guily conscious? Im not convinced.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 05:12:10 AM

-snip-
None of the admin/mod is supposed to spend 24 hours on this forum.
If you read my earlier replies, I am asking for rules/policies to be implemented by coding these features not manual intervention.
Once they're coded then its all automated, there is no moderation required.

Your only suggestion in that regard was to prevent newbies from using the marketplace section. You failed to establish how that would reduce the number of scams.

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: shorena on December 24, 2015, 05:03:52 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:50:45 AM

Quote from: sho_road_warrior on December 24, 2015, 03:48:54 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 23, 2015, 06:48:26 PM

If you go by my 1st logic: Selling accounts SHOULD NOT be permitted. If you sell your account even on other site then also you are held responsible for anything that happens with this account. Lets say if your account is hacked then forum admin can drop an e-mail to your registered e-mail id & inform you to login ASAP and see what's wrong with the account. Similarly if hacker did any scam using your a/c then you should repay for the losses.

So I get a mail, how does that hold me responsible for a scam with the account I just sold off-site?

You will have scam accusation thread against YOU.
In any case, if you have sold the account then you won't care about what's happening with your account BUT if we had this POLICY that accounts can not be sold then YOU would have been held responsible for this & YOUR account should have been banned.

How? You just have my mail address.

If you'll have some self-respect then you would get guilty conscious.
In any case it'll prevent others from being scammed by adopting the same technique.

EDIT: If you are so against my idea of banning account sales then tell me the benefits that you can get by selling it & not making it public?

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: Joel_Jantsen on December 24, 2015, 04:14:11 AM

Okay first off all,instead of criticizing whats been put up for the rest of us by the forum, tell me how much effort have you taken to control the spam? Why should you care right ? "You're not being paid to do so".Sames goes to admins/staffs, they do have a life outside this forum and they can't waste their 24 hours monitoring the scams around here and obviously they're "not paid" .Why don't you start paying couple of people monthly for reducing the spam? Would you ? No one has personally invited you to join the forum or the internet,its your choice .Since you're here,you must know all the possible trends in the market including scams.For your information,in every thread there is a detailed post glued on "how to be safe" and still if you fall a victim of scam, the admins/staffs are not to be blamed but your stupidity and lack of awareness.As far as the account sales are concerned,we have sell here for Netflix,spotify,Brazzers,etc which cannot be controlled by any of this companies .Similarly,taking off account sales is not going to help anyway .

None of the admin/mod is supposed to spend 24 hours on this forum.
If you read my earlier replies, I am asking for rules/policies to be implemented by coding these features not manual intervention.
Once they're coded then its all automated, there is no moderation required.

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Yes but what if the guy himself scams after building all the reputation required to do one ?
what after making a scam accusation against him ? does it solves the issue ? No, the scam has already taken place and there is no fruit in banning the scammer/user except the useless satisfaction of the victim.

You added it later, that's why could not reply to it.
Lets say your family member is murdered brutally by someone. Now tell what would you do?

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Yes, in some case it's possible to recognize that someone is using a second account (alt-account) ... see the quickseller story.

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1528

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:50:45 AM

Quote from: sho_road_warrior on December 24, 2015, 03:48:54 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 23, 2015, 06:48:26 PM

If you go by my 1st logic: Selling accounts SHOULD NOT be permitted. If you sell your account even on other site then also you are held responsible for anything that happens with this account. Lets say if your account is hacked then forum admin can drop an e-mail to your registered e-mail id & inform you to login ASAP and see what's wrong with the account. Similarly if hacker did any scam using your a/c then you should repay for the losses.

So I get a mail, how does that hold me responsible for a scam with the account I just sold off-site?

You will have scam accusation thread against YOU.
In any case, if you have sold the account then you won't care about what's happening with your account BUT if we had this POLICY that accounts can not be sold then YOU would have been held responsible for this & YOUR account should have been banned.

How? You just have my mail address.

Heutenamos

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 04:07:38 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:59:41 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Most of the forum agrees to it because what you say is utter foolishness with no achievements by doing it.People should have the common sense to understand the consequences of their trade/deal whatever.

Now,if we put your question out of the forum then what are governments doing for the ton load of scams ,crimes increasing day by day ? It never ends and the best solution is that the people should take the required precautionary measures.

So you think there are no agencies established that are trying to control scams/money laundering in real world ?
Please read this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

what is the outcome after having several agencies for that ? some people need to taste the fire in order to know the consequences and avoid it in the future.You can't help everyone. Undecided

Wikipedia is not reliable.

Look at your logic Sir: Wikipedia is not reliable. We should not try to do anything to control scams.
We should read to your comments & wait for people to get scammed here or in real world.

Implementing controls would reduce scams. I never said that implementing controls/rules/policies would stop scams.
Implementing controls is in our hands but preventing scammers from scamming is not. Still, if the controls are implemented then scams would reduce.

what makes you think there is no prevention over scams ? many DT members are active most of the time for such reasons.People who ignore the negative rating's and require more help then they should ask for it.
I remember asking sebastianju about a lot things i never understand or which seemed fishy to me while i was a newbie.

Joel_Jantsen

legendary

Activity: 1988

Merit: 1317

Get your game girl

Okay first off all,instead of criticizing whats been put up for the rest of us by the forum, tell me how much effort have you taken to control the spam? Why should you care right ? "You're not being paid to do so".Sames goes to admins/staffs, they do have a life outside this forum and they can't waste their 24 hours monitoring the scams around here and obviously they're "not paid" .Why don't you start paying couple of people monthly for reducing the spam? Would you ? No one has personally invited you to join the forum or the internet,its your choice .Since you're here,you must know all the possible trends in the market including scams.For your information,in every thread there is a detailed post glued on "how to be safe" and still if you fall a victim of scam, the admins/staffs are not to be blamed but your stupidity and lack of awareness.As far as the account sales are concerned,we have sell here for Netflix,spotify,Brazzers,etc which cannot be controlled by any of this companies .Similarly,taking off account sales is not going to help anyway .

sardasa

hero member

Activity: 1064

Merit: 502

* Buying Bitcoin *

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 04:03:14 AM

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:59:41 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Most of the forum agrees to it because what you say is utter foolishness with no achievements by doing it.People should have the common sense to understand the consequences of their trade/deal whatever.

Now,if we put your question out of the forum then what are governments doing for the ton load of scams ,crimes increasing day by day ? It never ends and the best solution is that the people should take the required precautionary measures.

So you think there are no agencies established that are trying to control scams/money laundering in real world ?
Please read this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

what is the outcome after having several agencies for that ? some people need to taste the fire in order to know the consequences and avoid it in the future.You can't help everyone. Undecided

Wikipedia is not reliable.

Look at your logic Sir: Wikipedia is not reliable. We should not try to do anything to control scams.
We should read to your comments & wait for people to get scammed here or in real world.

Implementing controls would reduce scams. I never said that implementing controls/rules/policies would stop scams.
Implementing controls is in our hands but preventing scammers from scamming is not. Still, if the controls are implemented then scams would reduce.

Heutenamos

hero member

Activity: 812

Merit: 1000

Act #Neutral,Think y'self as a citizen of Universe

Quote from: sardasa on December 24, 2015, 03:59:41 AM

Quote from: Heutenamos on December 24, 2015, 03:56:37 AM

Most of the forum agrees to it because what you say is utter foolishness with no achievements by doing it.People should have the common sense to understand the consequences of their trade/deal whatever.

Now,if we put your question out of the forum then what are governments doing for the ton load of scams ,crimes increasing day by day ? It never ends and the best solution is that the people should take the required precautionary measures.

So you think there are no agencies established that are trying to control scams/money laundering in real world ?
Please read this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_laundering

what is the outcome after having several agencies for that ? some people need to taste the fire in order to know the consequences and avoid it in the future.You can't help everyone. Undecided

Wikipedia is not reliable.

Topic: Is it possible to recognize that someone is using 2nd hand account? - page 3. (Read 2686 times)