Is it really a benefit that nobody controls the price? - page 5.

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legendary

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Quote from: SapphireSpire on February 18, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

I like crypto but, as a merchant and business owner, price volatility keeps me from accepting it. The price is heavily influenced by hype and FUD and I can't afford to lose half my wealth from a random crash. And what would it do to the global economy if everyone blindly jumped in without some sort of protection from a massive loss of wealth?

Solution- price limits!

If even one crypto exchange in the world adopted a policy to limit the prices of buy and sell orders to within a small percentage of the daily opening price, say +/- 1% for example, volatility would disappear. Bitcoin is currently priced around $50k, this would limit Bitcoin volatility to no more or less than $500 a day.

Here's how the market would react.
1. If the price of a coin is lower on other exchanges, traders will buy from them and sell on this, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to rise.

2. If the price is higher on other exchanges, traders will buy from this exchange to sell on those, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to fall.

This means the market will keep correcting itself until all prices are closely pegged to the prices on this exchange.

Nobody controlling the price means decentralization which is what everyone desires in the crypto sphere. It provides an opportunity for all. Your problem can easily be solved if you will just accept stablecoin, it's nothing but just pegged to a dollar.

But since you have the desire to accept BTC, that means you are also looking for an opportunity to profit when prices are running up. So why complain?

so98nn

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Quote from: SapphireSpire on February 18, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

[...]
Here's how the market would react.
1. If the price of a coin is lower on other exchanges, traders will buy from them and sell on this, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to rise.

2. If the price is higher on other exchanges, traders will buy from this exchange to sell on those, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to fall.

This means the market will keep correcting itself until all prices are closely pegged to the prices on this exchange.

This is not the way bitcoin works! Not just the exchangers! Bitcoin's circulating supply is not completely on the exchangers around the world. Imagine more than 3% bitcoins are in holdings of crypto institutions, more than 6% is with Mr. Satoshi and billions of worth in the wallet of Elon and also PayPal, and more than this are with common people like you and me which could make huge % of holdings. If do the math then exchanger do not drive the prices of bitcoin at all. These go directly into locked bitcoin. In addition to this, you can't buy from one exchanger and sell to other high priced exchanger because you loose 0.2 to 1% in the process due to the exchanger fees as well as withdrawal fees. So investors don't do that! Market correction happens with the liquidity and daily volume of fiat that's being matched with the current price.

bitgolden

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Quote from: doomloop on February 20, 2021, 03:51:04 AM

Actually right but he was trying to think of a way which can make fluctuations smaller like limiting the maximum drop/rise a day to $500 but obviously we cannot do it because you can't stop buyers from buying and you cannot force sellers into holding. But to solve the same problem stable-coins were made to eliminate these risks and if you are a merchant you might actually want to accept altcoins like TRX because BTC payments will take hours and transaction fees also hurts. I am only suggesting TRX because it has free of cost transactions and quick confirmations and the price for TRX never dropped or jumped too much either.

By the way there are merchants like bitrefill who accept bitcoins payment but how they manage price fluctuations is by constantly updating price of the cart items every 10 mins when you are on the payment page. Like if you had $10 amazon gift card and move to checkout then the price will be fixed for 10-15 mins and then update according to the market price.

Unfortunately TRX is not a good choice for merchants considering it is fast and cheap but at the same time lacks development. This means if you want to accept crypto so that you could have more crypto and profit later on, that would be a bad choice, since it may not go up like the other ones, look at the current situation where everything goes up but Tron fails to go up, whereas if you pick something else you could live with that.

For example if you use Tron blockchain but Tron itself, that would be a lot better for you, such as using USDT but on TRC20 blockchain, that way you will be getting usdt and the price of it will not change and you will still get it fast and cheap, or you could accept something like BNB for example which would be cheap and fast as well and it is not a bad coin (increased as high as third place) so you could always find an alternative.

tygeade

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Quote from: SapphireSpire on February 18, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

I like crypto but, as a merchant and business owner, price volatility keeps me from accepting it. The price is heavily influenced by hype and FUD and I can't afford to lose half my wealth from a random crash. And what would it do to the global economy if everyone blindly jumped in without some sort of protection from a massive loss of wealth?

Indeed as a merchant you face tough times accepting bitcoins because the volatile nature of Bitcoin means you are not just accepting bitcoins but also gambling as the price might swing in any direction. But when you accept bitcoin as a payment, you have to keep in mind that overall the price only rises if you compare in long term.

If you hate volatility then you can just accept bitcoin and convert them automatically into stable coins so I don't see what the problem really is.

Quote from: SapphireSpire on February 18, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

If even one crypto exchange in the world adopted a policy to limit the prices of buy and sell orders to within a small percentage of the daily opening price, say +/- 1% for example, volatility would disappear. Bitcoin is currently priced around $50k, this would limit Bitcoin volatility to no more or less than $500 a day.

No one can control the price of bitcoins my man that's the catch and even Satoshi cannot control it who eventually created Bitcoins, such is the nature of a decentralized asset that even the creators cannot control the price and transactions once its public.

Janation

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Quote from: franco123 on February 20, 2021, 03:57:03 PM

First thing they will teach you in Economics class is the Supply and Demand. And this mainly affects the price of Bitcoin. What is amazing about it is that it is being 'controlled' by the consumers unlike the other currencies which is being controlled by the government. Yes it is volatile and a lot of other factors may affect the price. However, what's good about it is that it is universal and no country has the power to manipulate it's price.

That is so true.

As these countries can limit the use of Bitcoin in their country, they can't stop it completely as no one can actually stop Bitcoin from functioning. Right now with a lot of big names/companies that wanted to invest in Bitcoin, this could be a threat to that decentralization. Nothing may change or everything will completely change in the future.

MCobian

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It is great for me that no one can control the price of Bitcoin, so the volatile Bitcoin price can be used to generate profit. If you are a merchant owner
and want to accept Bitcoin payments, then use an application that can convert Bitcoin directly to stablecoins or fiat. That way you can overcome
the volatile Bitcoin price, because if the solution limits the price. Bitcoin is not decentralized anymore, because someone controls the price of Bitcoin.
Let the Bitcoin price move according to demand and supply is much better.

Edsemen

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Quote from: franco123 on February 20, 2021, 03:57:03 PM

First thing they will teach you in Economics class is the Supply and Demand. And this mainly affects the price of Bitcoin. What is amazing about it is that it is being 'controlled' by the consumers unlike the other currencies which is being controlled by the government. Yes it is volatile and a lot of other factors may affect the price. However, what's good about it is that it is universal and no country has the power to manipulate it's price.

Indeed, every country government has a separation between crypto and fiat and they won't intervene with how people create their own perspective towards investments. Bigger whales could control this trend if they wanted to, that's why every situation depends in what type if trading you'll apply each time you approach with every plans you have in the future.

Questat

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Quote from: Rengga Jati on February 19, 2021, 06:54:29 PM

Sure, with no one controls the price, there will be high volatility in crypto prices. You shouldn't consider volatility as a negative thing, it is one of the reasons why many people come to the crypto world. With high volatility, there will be big price gaps, which creates a chance for all people to buy at a small price and sell at a very high price. If the price is limited and controlled, there will be no chance to take significant profits.

Some worried about the volatility but they don't understand how it gives more benefits to the traders and so with the investors.

I did appreciate being an uncontrollable market but somehow we can't neglect to experience manipulation. That is why some people could think that we are in control, can't imagine how JP Morgan and Elon Musk did, they easily change the market trend, but the result is pretty amazing and we all have huge gains.

MWesterweele

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on February 19, 2021, 04:59:09 PM

Actually, the price in the market are inflected by the market itself, the supply and demand in the market will really give big influence. However, sometimes, whales or certain people also give influence and may control the market if they really have the big amount of the coin itself. However, I don't think that they can control the whole of the market. This is so complex if they are able to control all the market. This is not like a centralized system, this is decentralized or semi-decentralized where everybody can give influence to the market. It may distinguish on how big the control or influence.

Well i guess knowing no one had any control with the price of bitcoin was somewhat beneficial but the only concern of traders and investors of bitcoin was its volatility that make it i guess makes bitcoin as what it was, a trendy and in demand investment asset today. It is true that the only thing that could make the bitcoin market inflected was the supply and the demand of bitcoin and also the rising member of the society that are really into investment of bitcoin, some were a big personality in terms of business.

ReiMomo

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Quote from: franco123 on February 20, 2021, 03:57:03 PM

First thing they will teach you in Economics class is the Supply and Demand. And this mainly affects the price of Bitcoin. What is amazing about it is that it is being 'controlled' by the consumers unlike the other currencies which is being controlled by the government. Yes it is volatile and a lot of other factors may affect the price. However, what's good about it is that it is universal and no country has the power to manipulate it's price.

Because not all bitcoin holders are the same financial status, there are some investors that can afford a big amount to put as an investment in bitcoin and the most powerful are those who had a lot of money that they can even do play the market in investing a lot of bitcoin and then waiting to sell when the price goes up.

We can avoid this thing, there are always who want to control even in different aspects of investment. I will not surprise if bitcoin also has, a fixed amount that easy for them to control, why not. The demand and supply will always vary on the price movement.

franco123

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First thing they will teach you in Economics class is the Supply and Demand. And this mainly affects the price of Bitcoin. What is amazing about it is that it is being 'controlled' by the consumers unlike the other currencies which is being controlled by the government. Yes it is volatile and a lot of other factors may affect the price. However, what's good about it is that it is universal and no country has the power to manipulate it's price.

ven7net

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Quote from: SapphireSpire on February 18, 2021, 03:07:53 PM

I like crypto but, as a merchant and business owner, price volatility keeps me from accepting it. The price is heavily influenced by hype and FUD and I can't afford to lose half my wealth from a random crash. And what would it do to the global economy if everyone blindly jumped in without some sort of protection from a massive loss of wealth?

Solution- price limits!

If even one crypto exchange in the world adopted a policy to limit the prices of buy and sell orders to within a small percentage of the daily opening price, say +/- 1% for example, volatility would disappear. Bitcoin is currently priced around $50k, this would limit Bitcoin volatility to no more or less than $500 a day.

Here's how the market would react.
1. If the price of a coin is lower on other exchanges, traders will buy from them and sell on this, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to rise.

2. If the price is higher on other exchanges, traders will buy from this exchange to sell on those, right? That will cause the price on those exchanges to fall.

This means the market will keep correcting itself until all prices are closely pegged to the prices on this exchange.

I believe that BTC is attractive at the moment precisely because its price can change. It so happened that the high volatility of the price of BTC attracts a lot of players and ordinary investors, I would say, everyone who wants to make money quickly. Based on this, for a number of companies that would like to invest in BTC, this causes caution, since you yourself wrote that you would not want to spend your funds in case of something. BTC is probably for those who can take risks or see and know more than others. In any case, all investments always carry risks of loss, but vice versa, as with BTC, they can bring great profits.

doomloop

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Quote from: DoublerHunter on February 18, 2021, 03:16:39 PM

BTC has a fixed amount and the price varied on the demand and supply in the market cap. Once the demand will increase, it means the supply becomes less which in turn to BTC becomes expensive and the price was pegged into a dollar-based value. Nevertheless, it is impossible that you mean BTC will become stable in price, the price will always be fluctuated due to massive traders of altcoins in BTC pairs.

Actually right but he was trying to think of a way which can make fluctuations smaller like limiting the maximum drop/rise a day to $500 but obviously we cannot do it because you can't stop buyers from buying and you cannot force sellers into holding. But to solve the same problem stable-coins were made to eliminate these risks and if you are a merchant you might actually want to accept altcoins like TRX because BTC payments will take hours and transaction fees also hurts. I am only suggesting TRX because it has free of cost transactions and quick confirmations and the price for TRX never dropped or jumped too much either.

By the way there are merchants like bitrefill who accept bitcoins payment but how they manage price fluctuations is by constantly updating price of the cart items every 10 mins when you are on the payment page. Like if you had $10 amazon gift card and move to checkout then the price will be fixed for 10-15 mins and then update according to the market price.

justdimin

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I have to say it is cool that we have no centralization, even with the bad sides of it, you have to take the bad sides because at the end of the day we are going to have regulations and those will help us a lot but control is something different.

If you put regulations on something that nobody can control, you are going to have dark market price changes that is not available in the regular exchanges, I am not even saying it is impossible because governments could talk with exchanges and put on some limits, probably not 1% and a lot bigger (like 50% daily) which would be the limit, for going up or down, but even when you accept that all nations all around the world could do this (which is impossible) we are still left with dark market exchanges doing whatever they want and people making a profit from the difference between the two exchanges.

Rengga Jati

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Sure, with no one controls the price, there will be high volatility in crypto prices. You shouldn't consider volatility as a negative thing, it is one of the reasons why many people come to the crypto world. With high volatility, there will be big price gaps, which creates a chance for all people to buy at a small price and sell at a very high price. If the price is limited and controlled, there will be no chance to take significant profits.

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Quote from: kawetsriyanto on February 19, 2021, 04:59:09 PM

Actually, the price in the market are inflected by the market itself, the supply and demand in the market will really give big influence.

Well, in theoretical analysis and the basics of determining the price, --it is always the demand and supply.
But we can't deny that there are some greedy people who wanted to earn more in investing in bitcoin and we are not all the same status in lifestyle. So, there are people who can't afford to spend more on investing in bitcoin. We have different kinds of investors in bitcoin and we are all aiming to accumulate as much as we can. For the whales and institutional investors are for sure a wide bag to put bitcoin which has an effect on the market price since we are at the concept of demand and supply.

kawetsriyanto

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Actually, the price in the market are inflected by the market itself, the supply and demand in the market will really give big influence. However, sometimes, whales or certain people also give influence and may control the market if they really have the big amount of the coin itself. However, I don't think that they can control the whole of the market. This is so complex if they are able to control all the market. This is not like a centralized system, this is decentralized or semi-decentralized where everybody can give influence to the market. It may distinguish on how big the control or influence.

JooBra

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It's not that nobody controls the price we all control it or better to say demand controls it. It's such a good concept since nobody can take profit for controlling the market. Now we are not at that point yet since we have people with big bags who can influence the price. Getting the marketcap bigger will help that for sure.

dimonstration

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Quote from: uneng on February 18, 2021, 08:29:40 PM

It would go totally against decentralized nature of this universe. I think there is no reason to reproduce the stocks market model in crypto currency. Each market has its own characteristics, advantages and disadvantages. If you aren't satisfied with a centralized market you have the option to move your funds to the decentralized one and vice-versa. Makes no sense to have two markets working under the same traditional guidelines.
If crypto worked the way you said probably it wouldn't be the phenom it is today. So better to keep it working this way.

Many finds crypto more profitable and easier to use now that the stock or any other platform since the Pandemic hinders many economic transactions and issues, it's good if we can be able to adopt in any way possible if we knew how stock work and how crypto do. We can choose what works best in us and finds way to learn and earn on it.

dothebeats

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Accept bitcoin through a payment processor and you're good to go. If the volatility bothers you too much that's why you can't accept bitcoin on the dot, perhaps integrating bitcoin into your business is not the correct idea atm and you're better off buying your own bitcoin rather than accept it as a form of payment. This way, you still have a stable business on the side, while on the other you are investing on bitcoin and not getting worried about the volatility eating up your sales in a day.

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