Is New York Going too far? | Bitcointalksearch.org

samson

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Quote from: TippingPoint on August 13, 2013, 02:42:04 PM

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation. The Supreme Court upheld all seizures as constitutional, with only one justice dissenting.

(You probably like that too)

The rest of the world probably carried on as normal. Remember there's a lot more to this world than the 'land of the free'.

paraipan

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Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 10:06:11 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: paraipan on August 17, 2013, 01:58:20 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 01:09:57 PM

...

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

I guess you underestimate the hashing power of Bitcoin as a whole. Read on...

http://qz.com/84056/the-bitcoin-network-is-now-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined/

The NSA doesn't need to hash at all to attack the pools. Wink

True enough!

That's why we have p2pool. https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/P2Pool

Please guys remove your tinfoils, this is getting ridiculous Undecided

TippingPoint

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Thank you.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Vampire Squids are the massive to big to fail banking entities (originally referred to Goldman Sach's specifically but now more generally) which exist to suck lifeblood out of the economy. Not innovating, no creating, not improving the economy rather acting like a tax, a friction, a siphoning off a % of the overall wealth to the detriment of the overall system. If you are the vampire squid you don't want ANYTHING to ever change. The only two risks you face are actually killing the economy (sucked too much wealth out of the system) or true innovation allowing wealth to bypass you.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jakezamansky/2013/08/08/the-great-vampire-squid-keeps-on-sucking/

TippingPoint

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Quote from: solex on August 17, 2013, 11:34:01 PM

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 17, 2013, 01:56:38 PM

That assumes governments are informed, rational, and make logical decisions. Take a look at online poker. A nearly useless series of laws simply drove the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation overseas. The key word in your conjecture is "learn" and historically regulators haven't been very interested in learning. It is entirely possible they won't learn, and will stiffle/cripple innovation in the US and the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation will simply flow overseas. The good news is Bitcoin is global and it will adapt around a broken US regulatory structure. The bad news for entrepreneurs in the US (myself included) is that Bitcoin surviving doesn't necessarily mean they will survive.

I hope they learn, and do in this case think they will because Bitcoin is as global as the internet itself. I take the point that they still might not.

Quote from: tclo on August 17, 2013, 10:09:22 PM

Why do you think regulators care about the US economy and jobs and tax revenue and anything else like that? They only care about grandstanding and making themselves look good and hassling bitcoin companies and individuals is the way for them to do that.

Sorry. But that is just too cynical. The situation with regulators is that these people genuinely believe that most business would screw over their customers at every opportunity without regulation, and that ever more regulation makes companies behave ever better towards their customers, the defenseless public.

This mind-set stems from a systemic failing of society. Most regulators have never worked in mainstream business or owned their own companies. They come out of academia, or other government sector departments, or places like the Vampire Squid, who really do want to screw over their customers at every opportunity.

A city-run regulatory hit-squad in Detroit is still closing businesses because of infringements with the kaleidoscope of regulations there. No wonder that city is bankrupt. They just don't understand that businesses create wealth, and all government ever does is redistribute wealth.

Very nice post, and true. But what is a Vampire Squid (in this context)?

solex

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100 satoshis -> ISO code

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 17, 2013, 01:56:38 PM

That assumes governments are informed, rational, and make logical decisions. Take a look at online poker. A nearly useless series of laws simply drove the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation overseas. The key word in your conjecture is "learn" and historically regulators haven't been very interested in learning. It is entirely possible they won't learn, and will stiffle/cripple innovation in the US and the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation will simply flow overseas. The good news is Bitcoin is global and it will adapt around a broken US regulatory structure. The bad news for entrepreneurs in the US (myself included) is that Bitcoin surviving doesn't necessarily mean they will survive.

I hope they learn, and do in this case think they will because Bitcoin is as global as the internet itself. I take the point that they still might not.

Quote from: tclo on August 17, 2013, 10:09:22 PM

Why do you think regulators care about the US economy and jobs and tax revenue and anything else like that? They only care about grandstanding and making themselves look good and hassling bitcoin companies and individuals is the way for them to do that.

Sorry. But that is just too cynical. The situation with regulators is that these people genuinely believe that most business would screw over their customers at every opportunity without regulation, and that ever more regulation makes companies behave ever better towards their customers, the defenseless public.

This mind-set stems from a systemic failing of society. Most regulators have never worked in mainstream business or owned their own companies. They come out of academia, or other government sector departments, or places like the Vampire Squid, who really do want to screw over their customers at every opportunity.

A city-run regulatory hit-squad in Detroit is still closing businesses because of infringements with the kaleidoscope of regulations there. No wonder that city is bankrupt. They just don't understand that businesses create wealth, and all government ever does is redistribute wealth.

tclo

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Activity: 518

Merit: 500

Quote from: DeathAndTaxes on August 17, 2013, 01:56:38 PM

That assumes governments are informed, rational, and make logical decisions. Take a look at online poker. A nearly useless series of laws simply drove the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation overseas. The key word in your conjecture is "learn" and historically regulators haven't been very interested in learning. It is entirely possible they won't learn, and will stiffle/cripple innovation in the US and the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation will simply flow overseas. The good news is Bitcoin is global and it will adapt around a broken US regulatory structure. The bad news for entrepreneurs in the US (myself included) is that Bitcoin surviving doesn't necessarily mean they will survive.

Why do you think regulators care about the US economy and jobs and tax revenue and anything else like that? They only care about grandstanding and making themselves look good and hassling bitcoin companies and individuals is the way for them to do that.

LostDutchman

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Activity: 476

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: paraipan on August 17, 2013, 01:58:20 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 01:09:57 PM

...

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

I guess you underestimate the hashing power of Bitcoin as a whole. Read on...

http://qz.com/84056/the-bitcoin-network-is-now-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined/

The NSA doesn't need to hash at all to attack the pools. Wink

True enough!

LostDutchman

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Quote from: paraipan on August 17, 2013, 01:58:20 PM

Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 01:09:57 PM

...

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

I guess you underestimate the hashing power of Bitcoin as a whole. Read on...

http://qz.com/84056/the-bitcoin-network-is-now-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined/

You think the NSA couldn't have a sh*tload of ASICs in a bout two days if the wanted them?

paraipan

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Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 01:09:57 PM

...

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

I guess you underestimate the hashing power of Bitcoin as a whole. Read on...

http://qz.com/84056/the-bitcoin-network-is-now-more-powerful-than-the-top-500-supercomputers-combined/

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: solex on August 16, 2013, 11:58:45 PM

China and Russia are the key to US regulation being pitched at a reasonable level, after the NY and Senate investigations are finished.

Once the regulators learn how much is being done in the bitcoin space in these countries, and that crippling US-based Bitcoin (and all crypto) businesses, will leave an empty highway for the foreign domination of this internet-based revolution in finance. The only way to have influence in the direction of this technology is to allow local companies to compete worldwide.

That assumes governments are informed, rational, and make logical decisions. Take a look at online poker. A nearly useless series of laws simply drove the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation overseas. The key word in your conjecture is "learn" and historically regulators haven't been very interested in learning. It is entirely possible they won't learn, and will stiffle/cripple innovation in the US and the money, jobs, tax revenue, and innovation will simply flow overseas. The good news is Bitcoin is global and it will adapt around a broken US regulatory structure. The bad news for entrepreneurs in the US (myself included) is that Bitcoin surviving doesn't necessarily mean they will survive.

DeathAndTaxes

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Gerald Davis

Quote from: LostDutchman on August 17, 2013, 01:09:57 PM

Quote from: faiza1990 on August 17, 2013, 09:45:26 AM

The important thing to understand is that the bitcoin economy can be regulated but the core protocol and currency itself cannot be controlled. It will be impossible for governments to manipulate the currency

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

While that would make the life of miners more difficult, solo mining is still possible, as in private pools, and decentralized pools like p2pool. The nice thing about Bitcoin is that one can put a lot of relay nodes between the pool server and the rest of the bitcoin network. Instead of pool server broadcasting blocks to any peer it only broadcasts them to a handful of "relay peers" which are essentially disposable VPS in a bunch of US unfriendly countries.

Decentralized systems will always adapt to centralized threats. Look at bittorrent and tor, they aren't silver bullets and it is a never ending struggle, but they have proven very difficult to attack effectively.

JungleBook

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Quote from: solex on August 16, 2013, 11:58:45 PM

China and Russia are the key to US regulation being pitched at a reasonable level, after the NY and Senate investigations are finished.

Once the regulators learn how much is being done in the bitcoin space in these countries, and that crippling US-based Bitcoin (and all crypto) businesses, will leave an empty highway for the foreign domination of this internet-based revolution in finance. The only way to have influence in the direction of this technology is to allow local companies to compete worldwide.

DAMN Perfection. Your logic is undeniable

LostDutchman

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Quote from: faiza1990 on August 17, 2013, 09:45:26 AM

The important thing to understand is that the bitcoin economy can be regulated but the core protocol and currency itself cannot be controlled. It will be impossible for governments to manipulate the currency

Right up to the point at which NSA turns its servers against mining pools.

My $.02.

faiza1990

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★☆★777Coin★☆★

The important thing to understand is that the bitcoin economy can be regulated but the core protocol and currency itself cannot be controlled. It will be impossible for governments to manipulate the currency

wachtwoord

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Quote from: Carlton Banks on August 17, 2013, 06:31:50 AM

Quote from: CrazyBit on August 16, 2013, 09:52:56 PM

Things are just crazy. What's next, a turn-key democracy?

Yes, please. Why am I voting for people to represent my views, when I'm the best person to represent my views?

I vote for me to represent my rights and I'm the only one that's eligible to vote.

Carlton Banks

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Quote from: CrazyBit on August 16, 2013, 09:52:56 PM

Things are just crazy. What's next, a turn-key democracy?

Yes, please. Why am I voting for people to represent my views, when I'm the best person to represent my views?

WinVery.com

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Bloomberg is definitely too liberal in the retard department.

tclo

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Yeah bitcoin could easily be made illegal in the USA...just like other victimless crimes llike marijuana and prostitution. They could make it a crime to buy or sell bitcoin...hope this doesn't happen for awhile.

RChevalier

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Not sure if it's going "too far", maybe just far enough. I don't think they are out to hunt down bitcoin/bitcoiners and drone them, but I also don't think they will be pre-ordering asics either. Might be appropriate to say that they are now more "interested" in the whole bitcoin thing, whatever their reasons may be. Ultimately, they will probably look to figure out a way where they can take advantage of it somehow while allowing it to continue.

Topic: Is New York Going too far? (Read 5453 times)