China and Russia are the key to US regulation being pitched at a reasonable level, after the NY and Senate investigations are finished.
Once the regulators learn how much is being done in the bitcoin space in these countries, and that crippling US-based Bitcoin (and all crypto) businesses, will leave an empty highway for the foreign domination of this internet-based revolution in finance. The only way to have influence in the direction of this technology is to allow local companies to compete worldwide.
Topic: Is New York Going too far? - page 2. (Read 5453 times)
Its interesting to see the difference in opinion, on this thread.
I think regulation is fine and dandy, but it will change absolutely nothing for me.
I think you'll be disappointed by their ability to "bring it"
I think regulation is fine and dandy, but it will change absolutely nothing for me.
All I have to say: "Bring it!"
I think you'll be disappointed by their ability to "bring it"
Nothing to worry about. Bitcoin can take a hit.
It's laughable from a non-american standpoint how a single city can have it's own regulatory system. The whole states thing in America is probably the issue, needs merging.
Well not to condone NY reaction but
a) this is from the STATE not CITY of NY.
b) States in the United States at one time were considered sovereign (they still are on paper but not as a practical matter) and the early US government was more like European Union. Your comment would be like an American saying "I find the idea that France passes its own laws laughable, all power and authority should simply sit with the EU".
Things are just crazy. What's next, a turn-key democracy?
All I have to say: "Bring it!"
I think that working with so-called "regulators" is a short road to a quick death for the security and privacy of crypto currency, if not the death of crypto currency itself.
The would-be "regulators" should be told to go pound sand, as it were!
My $.02.
What is really needed to tell them to go pound sand is for some business to be willing to stand up to them and make them go to court. Hard to find businesses willing to do that, but clearly they exist, e.g. Lavabit.
Yep!
My $.02.
I think that working with so-called "regulators" is a short road to a quick death for the security and privacy of crypto currency, if not the death of crypto currency itself.
The would-be "regulators" should be told to go pound sand, as it were!
My $.02.
What is really needed to tell them to go pound sand is for some business to be willing to stand up to them and make them go to court. Hard to find businesses willing to do that, but clearly they exist, e.g. Lavabit.
Wormbog, by all means, consume and propagate the US-centric propagandist viewpoint, but at least try to acquaint yourself with the alternative propaganda, it'll give the impression that you're not living in a cave. Allow me:
Perception of reality problem: you're assuming that US based businesses and venture funding actually matter to the rest of the world. Not the case. Plenty of loud mouthed, well funded propagandists will disagree, but it's still not the case. The world's dependence on the US economy is reaching/reached a tipping point, check out the events of the last 5 years for evidence
More assumptions... so many countries have reduced their dependence on US aid now, trade embargoes are going to matter less and less as the US exports less and less real world goods and services, under those circumstances, other countries are going to be doing less and less trade using dollars. When are people going to wake up to the fact that the US increasingly exports little else but debt and death? Why doesn't anyone understand why the US political will is so determined to ramp up their export of both debt and death? (the debt being significantly more successful than the death, of late)
If the Feds were able to brand bitcoin as a tool of terrorists and pornographers, and declare it illegal, all the US-based bitcoin businesses would shut down and venture funding would disappear overnight.
Perception of reality problem: you're assuming that US based businesses and venture funding actually matter to the rest of the world. Not the case. Plenty of loud mouthed, well funded propagandists will disagree, but it's still not the case. The world's dependence on the US economy is reaching/reached a tipping point, check out the events of the last 5 years for evidence
Now let's say the US declares that any nation that allows bitcoin transactions supports terrorism and loses all US aid money, loses access to US banks, and is put under trade embargo. Bitcoin would forever remain an underworld currency with a small, mostly criminal user base. The US gov't would then claim that making it illegal was justified, since only criminals use it.
More assumptions... so many countries have reduced their dependence on US aid now, trade embargoes are going to matter less and less as the US exports less and less real world goods and services, under those circumstances, other countries are going to be doing less and less trade using dollars. When are people going to wake up to the fact that the US increasingly exports little else but debt and death? Why doesn't anyone understand why the US political will is so determined to ramp up their export of both debt and death? (the debt being significantly more successful than the death, of late)
Do you like low value (max $100) currency?
I don't understand the question.
The U.S. government stopped printing $500 bills, $1000 bills, etc. so that transporting or possessing large amount of currency is cumbersome and impractical.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_denominations_of_United_States_currency
(You probably like that too)
But the good news is that you can now create whatever denomination you can afford and store it on one of these
these
or even print your own paper wallet.
Until they "regulate" it out of existence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
Executive Order 6102 is an Executive Order signed on April 5, 1933, by U.S. President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation. The Supreme Court upheld all seizures as constitutional, with only one justice dissenting.
(You probably like that too)
Which one do you prefer?
Do you like banks (and other "financial institutions") reporting your transactions to the government?
Do you like banks (and other "financial institutions") reporting your transactions to the government?
Yes.
Do you like IRS rules and regulations?
Yes.
Do you like mandatory payroll reporting and withholding?
Yes.
Do you like low value (max $100) currency?
I don't understand the question.
Do you like TSA searches that result in confiscation of "undeclared" currency?
Yes.
They've asked for information, that's all. Regulators are still trying to learn and understand about bitcoin.
This. It's not a part of a grand conspiracy. The regulators have jobs to do and need to learn about bitcoin in order to justify their existence. If they didn't, there are new regulators lined up ready to take their jobs.
Regulators gonna regulate.
If you base your company in North Korea then you really can't whine when all your rights are stripped away by a bunch of demagogues.
This.
I think the idea of people operating their bitcoin business from New York, California, Massachusetts, Chicago, or anywhere near D.C. is a very unwise move, and this is the main reason why. Honestly, inside the U.S. is probably to be avoided if possible, but at the very least I would have thought that avoiding the worst control zones would be a top priority for more bitcoiners.
Then again, I'm also disturbed at the number of bitcoiners who believe in preemptively meeting with and working with "the authorities."
+1
Must quote this again.
Those preemptively meeting with "the authorities" will find out some unpleasant truths about respect of fundamental rights by U.S. government. It's pure naivety doing this.
But even our lead developer doesn't stay anonymous, meets with the CIA, and is pro-regulation.
This is bad news for Bitcoin. But it isn't surprising.
Anonymity in financial transactions is fundamentally incompatible with government taxation and currency controls.
Which one do you prefer?
Do you like banks (and other "financial institutions") reporting your transactions to the government?
Do you like IRS rules and regulations?
Do you like mandatory payroll reporting and withholding?
Do you like low value (max $100) currency?
Do you like TSA searches that result in confiscation of "undeclared" currency?
Which one do you prefer?
Do you like banks (and other "financial institutions") reporting your transactions to the government?
Do you like IRS rules and regulations?
Do you like mandatory payroll reporting and withholding?
Do you like low value (max $100) currency?
Do you like TSA searches that result in confiscation of "undeclared" currency?
Interesting to see where this is going.
I believe this is a good thing.
Issues like this are inevitable towards the further accepting of Bitcoin in the US and the rest of the world.
I believe this is a good thing.
Issues like this are inevitable towards the further accepting of Bitcoin in the US and the rest of the world.
Their announcement just re-hashed the usual set of excuses about why it is necessary to regulate BTC. I wouldn't interpret it as just information gathering. You can do that in much cheaper and less intrusive ways. They clearly want to figure out who they can possibly pursue legally.
This. I still haven't heard how the policy makers and regulation enforcers plan to regulate something that in all practical terms simply cannot be done. They still have no tactics except intimidation.
- They can shut exchanges, in one country
- They can ban IRL business use, in one country
- They can ban outright use (in one country) and have no real hope of being able to enforce the ban
- They can ban distribution of the client and see how that cat & mouse game works out
- They can try getting ISPs to throws as many networking hurdles in the way, and watch while that gets circumvented
Without a comprehensive worldwide authoritarian presence, and I'm talking CCTV in every room of every building and Skynet style total drone coverage of every square inch, there is no way of defeating this design. I suppose initiating armageddon is viable option, but then who would they lord themselves over, cockroaches?
If the Feds were able to brand bitcoin as a tool of terrorists and pornographers, and declare it illegal, all the US-based bitcoin businesses would shut down and venture funding would disappear overnight. Now let's say the US declares that any nation that allows bitcoin transactions supports terrorism and loses all US aid money, loses access to US banks, and is put under trade embargo. Bitcoin would forever remain an underworld currency with a small, mostly criminal user base. The US gov't would then claim that making it illegal was justified, since only criminals use it.
US regulators can't kill bitcoin, but they can condemn it to obscurity easily enough.
Their announcement just re-hashed the usual set of excuses about why it is necessary to regulate BTC. I wouldn't interpret it as just information gathering. You can do that in much cheaper and less intrusive ways. They clearly want to figure out who they can possibly pursue legally.
This. I still haven't heard how the policy makers and regulation enforcers plan to regulate something that in all practical terms simply cannot be done. They still have no tactics except intimidation.
- They can shut exchanges, in one country
- They can ban IRL business use, in one country
- They can ban outright use (in one country) and have no real hope of being able to enforce the ban
- They can ban distribution of the client and see how that cat & mouse game works out
- They can try getting ISPs to throws as many networking hurdles in the way, and watch while that gets circumvented
Without a comprehensive worldwide authoritarian presence, and I'm talking CCTV in every room of every building and Skynet style total drone coverage of every square inch, there is no way of defeating this design. I suppose initiating armageddon is viable option, but then who would they lord themselves over, cockroaches?
Eventually Team America: World Police will make all Bitcoiners wear a yellow coin badge when they leave the house so the authorities can identify them on sight. This badge will be known as the Star of Satoshi.
You are 100% spot on!
Those who say that this will help BTC go "mainstream" are going to get what they are asking for but they won't like it!
My $.02.
I'm guessing Congress will hire some people on this msg board to start PatriotCoin, the digital p2p currency that is constantly inflating
If you base your company in North Korea then you really can't whine when all your rights are stripped away by a bunch of demagogues.
This.
I think the idea of people operating their bitcoin business from New York, California, Massachusetts, Chicago, or anywhere near D.C. is a very unwise move, and this is the main reason why. Honestly, inside the U.S. is probably to be avoided if possible, but at the very least I would have thought that avoiding the worst control zones would be a top priority for more bitcoiners.
Then again, I'm also disturbed at the number of bitcoiners who believe in preemptively meeting with and working with "the authorities."
+1
I think that working with so-called "regulators" is a short road to a quick death for the security and privacy of crypto currency, if not the death of crypto currency itself.
The would-be "regulators" should be told to go pound sand, as it were!
My $.02.
Many cities have semi autonomous status from the state they are in. Mexico City, Cairo, Singapore are all cities which are either a city-state or have a semi-autonomous status from the rest of the country they are in.
Your comments are laughable and show a certain ignorance about the world, history, the polis and in particular the nature of NYC.
NYC has a population greater than most countries. Even if London is still considered the world's most important banking city, NYC is a close second and a great financial trading capital. NYC has an economy greater than most countries. Court cases brought into courts in NYC affect the whole of the US and also the economy of the world.
NYC, like London before it, and Rome long before, are cities which have certain aspects of being states of their own.
The way the US is set up politically, having individual states has certain benefits politically. Read some Machiavelli and Sun Tsu. A country with weak internal states and a strong central government tends to be repressive. It tends to be hard to conquer but easy to rule once conquered.
As far as your comment that it is laughable from a non-american standpoint how a single city can have it's own regulatory system, since you speak for all non-US citizens, I will merely point out, Singapore, Macao, Mexico City, Vatican City, The Hague, as examples of the stupidity of your comment.
Peace!
Your comments are laughable and show a certain ignorance about the world, history, the polis and in particular the nature of NYC.
NYC has a population greater than most countries. Even if London is still considered the world's most important banking city, NYC is a close second and a great financial trading capital. NYC has an economy greater than most countries. Court cases brought into courts in NYC affect the whole of the US and also the economy of the world.
NYC, like London before it, and Rome long before, are cities which have certain aspects of being states of their own.
The way the US is set up politically, having individual states has certain benefits politically. Read some Machiavelli and Sun Tsu. A country with weak internal states and a strong central government tends to be repressive. It tends to be hard to conquer but easy to rule once conquered.
As far as your comment that it is laughable from a non-american standpoint how a single city can have it's own regulatory system, since you speak for all non-US citizens, I will merely point out, Singapore, Macao, Mexico City, Vatican City, The Hague, as examples of the stupidity of your comment.
Peace!
It's laughable from a non-american standpoint how a single city can have it's own regulatory system. The whole states thing in America is probably the issue, needs merging.
I'd like to point out, before this argument escalates, that the subpeona actually came from the STATE of New York.... as far as merging goes... that is a slippery slope issue... and merging into a one-world govt is probably not a good idea...
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