Is SatoshiDice illegal? - page 2. | Bitcointalksearch.org

drakahn

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Quote from: 001sonkit on August 22, 2012, 01:27:21 AM

Bitcoin is nothing currency， but there is market for it.
Likewise, Crap credit in games, eg(NP in neopets,online games, blah blah) is not a currency, but there is not a big market for it. Not much ppl would buy it.

So, if playing a slot machine flash game with NP and potentially win/lose NP is not illegal (even for child, since Neopet is a site for children, and NP is earned upon game playing with limit 3 times/game/day (oh! is it proof of work!?))

Bitcoin is not illegal on Betting (unless new laws apply, specific on Bitcoin or these virtually 'generated' things), even under 18

you can sell your NP now can you?

001sonkit

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Casper - A failed entrepenuer who looks like Zhou

Bitcoin is nothing currency， but there is market for it.
Likewise, Crap credit in games, eg(NP in neopets,online games, blah blah) is not a currency, but there is not a big market for it. Not much ppl would buy it.

So, if playing a slot machine flash game with NP and potentially win/lose NP is not illegal (even for child, since Neopet is a site for children, and NP is earned upon game playing with limit 3 times/game/day (oh! is it proof of work!?))

Bitcoin is not illegal on Betting (unless new laws apply, specific on Bitcoin or these virtually 'generated' things), even under 18

OswaldZeid

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Quote from: dunand on August 21, 2012, 10:08:48 PM

Quote from: skinturtle on August 20, 2012, 10:32:52 PM

Quote

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point. But Zynga credits cannot be exchanged to a currency while Bitcoins can be exchanged to a currency.

It's not possible to exchange bitcoin to a currency on the satoshidice website. Because of this I think SD is similar to Zynga

The legal definition of gambling in the United States depends on wagering some item 'of value'. I don't believe that the fact SD doesn't do the exchange matters - for a similar situation, exceptions to the law such as what you're talking about exist elsewhere in the world - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pachinko. The fact that we don't have similar establishments in the United States would seem to indicate to me that something that can readily be exchanged for currency would count as having a value.

dunand

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Quote from: skinturtle on August 20, 2012, 10:32:52 PM

Quote

Bitcoins are not money.

Zynga also lets you gamble with internet credits, remember

Thats a very good point. But Zynga credits cannot be exchanged to a currency while Bitcoins can be exchanged to a currency.

It's not possible to exchange bitcoin to a currency on the satoshidice website. Because of this I think SD is similar to Zynga

drakahn

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Quote from: mem on August 21, 2012, 09:09:46 PM

I hope they are not illegal otherwise I'll Ive been wasting my time maintaining my list: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mems-list-of-gambling-sites-75883

Well online gambling is illegal in a few places, so your list is a list of illegal sites in said places

mem

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Herp Derp PTY LTD

I hope they are not illegal otherwise I'll Ive been wasting my time maintaining my list: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mems-list-of-gambling-sites-75883

aph382

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Quote from: OswaldZeid on August 21, 2012, 07:44:41 PM

I'm watching the IPO with great interest, but I'm not going anywhere near it personally - seems like a good way to get on the wrong list.

Is it an IPO in any formal capacity (shares issued by an investment bank, and regulated by some gov't body), or just by name and intent?

OswaldZeid

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I'm watching the IPO with great interest, but I'm not going anywhere near it personally - seems like a good way to get on the wrong list.

skinturtle

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Quote from: P4man on August 21, 2012, 04:46:13 AM

Quote from: JompinDox on August 21, 2012, 04:40:16 AM

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.

Frankly, I think governments monopolizing gambling is a terrible idea, in that sense I dont have a problem with SD. If anything its arguably more honest than any legal gambling.

But that doesnt change the fact it is indeed almost certainly illegal and evoorhees trying to IPO it for a fortune without even mentioning this or while pretending its not illegal, is rather troublesome.

I thought so too, there should be a disclaimer that any investor that wants to buy in the IPO is investing in a possible illegal entity and can be shut down in any time.

Gabi

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If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: P4man on August 21, 2012, 03:41:24 AM

I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

Quote

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

Bitcoins are just our little game, we have our software and we play with it with these things we created, bitcoins. How can it be real money? And have any value? That's impossible! Cheesy

P4man

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Quote from: JompinDox on August 21, 2012, 04:40:16 AM

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.

Frankly, I think governments monopolizing gambling is a terrible idea, in that sense I dont have a problem with SD. If anything its arguably more honest than any legal gambling.

But that doesnt change the fact it is indeed almost certainly illegal and evoorhees trying to IPO it for a fortune without even mentioning this or while pretending its not illegal, is rather troublesome.

JompinDox

member

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Quote from: P4man on August 21, 2012, 03:41:24 AM

I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

Quote

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

Yeah, SD is outright illegal in most countries and he totally knows it.
Plus that's profiting from the weaknesses and addictions of people.
But karma's a bitch.

Gabi

legendary

Activity: 1148

Merit: 1008

If you want to walk on water, get out of the boat

Quote from: skinturtle on August 21, 2012, 02:38:41 AM

Quote from: Kazimir on August 21, 2012, 01:31:02 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 21, 2012, 01:28:51 AM

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

I don't know what happen to him, but it seems like he is preparing to launch another file sharing service. He's actually seeking for another payment processor. Maybe we can ask him to try Bitcoin.

Already done Wink

JoelKatz

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Quote from: Stephen Gornick on August 21, 2012, 01:02:16 AM

Quote

Federal law prohibits sports betting, but experts are divided over whether it clearly prohibits online games like poker and blackjack.

That's because there's a legitimate question whether or not they're games of chance. You can have a chess tournament with cash prices. You can't have a lottery. Satoshi Dice is pure chance.

P4man

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I agree with the OP that this is a very serious concern. From wikipedia:

Quote

t. The Act defines a bet or wager to include risking something of value on the outcome of a contest, sports event, "or a game subject to chance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Internet_Gambling_Enforcement_Act_of_2006

evoorhees, would you claim bitcoins are nothing of value?

skinturtle

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Quote from: Kazimir on August 21, 2012, 01:31:02 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 21, 2012, 01:28:51 AM

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

I don't know what happen to him, but it seems like he is preparing to launch another file sharing service. He's actually seeking for another payment processor. Maybe we can ask him to try Bitcoin.

Kazimir

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on August 21, 2012, 01:28:51 AM

Kim Dotcom.

Good point

Sad but true. Then again, I still gotta see if he actually gets prosecuted. I mean they arrested him all right, made a ridiculous show out of it, but now what?

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: Kazimir on August 21, 2012, 01:24:49 AM

Who gives a flying fuck what is forbidden in the US.

I host several .com sites in Europe (registered with European registrars, of course) that are probabily forbidden in the US. I couldn't care less about their shitty laws.

There are some very oppressive dictatorial regimes in the world (like North Korea, United States, Iran, etc) and we should stay as far as possible from their ridiculous censorship policies.

Kim Dotcom.

Kazimir

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Who gives a flying fuck what is forbidden in the US.

I host several .com sites in Europe (registered with European registrars, of course) that are probabily forbidden in the US. I couldn't care less about their shitty laws.

There are some very oppressive dictatorial regimes in the world (like North Korea, United States, Iran, etc) and we should stay as far as possible from their ridiculous censorship policies.

Stephen Gornick

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Quote from: skinturtle on August 20, 2012, 10:24:45 PM

The owners of the gambling sites were brought to jail. If SatoshiDice wants an IPO, they need to start protecting their assets because if US cracks them down then we'll have nothing..

I don't believe the owners of the sites were actually arrested:

- http://www.pokerblackfriday.com/whos-who/

The payment processors who billed out for the really expensive golf balls, ya -- jail. The bank officer who allegedly accepted a bribe related to this, ... ya - jail.

Quote

Federal law prohibits sports betting, but experts are divided over whether it clearly prohibits online games like poker and blackjack.

- http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/16/technology/16poker.html

Further information:
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Scheinberg

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