Topic: IS THE LIGHTNING NETWORK UP AND RUNNING (Read 370 times)

the "payment channels" doomad refers to are ~3 years out of date


he refers to an old concept that had flaws where an early version of lightning was described with concepts that used segwit (before segwit was even activated),

which after testing had flaws and functional problems.
(these were the olden days of 'revoke codes and penalties and such)
(these were the olden days before msats)

this is why latest lightning 'payment channels' dont use the actual CLTV as the active iou(payments), but are now using HTLC as the active IOU payment channels and just use CLTV as the setup/close session ramps in and out.
even these setup/close sesion ramps in and out of LN are being phased out with new concepts of factories. where by individual users never hold a CLTV. instead a factory(main node) manages a CLTV (from a blockchain funded collateral) to then pass out a HTLC to users(lite wallets). or simply hands out  HTLC to users if collateral comes from other sources like coinbase balance

Or, rather than trying in vain to make it sound worse than it really is, you could just concede and admit you might have actually learned something for once and that spreading FUD doesn't work.

If you had deposited funds on-chain to a dice site and your balance was in credit, they would have 100% control over those funds.  If they don't want to acknowledge your withdrawal for the funds that are rightfully yours, you would get nothing, because there is nothing you can do to make them release the payment to you, other than perhaps involving law enforcement which probably wouldn't work anyway.   You are wholly reliant on them being honest.  The Bitcoin protocol is trustless, but any services you deposit funds to on-chain absolutely rely on a healthy (or possibly unhealthy) dose of trust on your part.

In a payment channel, powered by smart contracts, any funds left in your portion of the channel could be reclaimed even if the Dice site choose to be uncooperative or dishonest.  Having to wait for a timelock is preferable to not getting your funds at all.

Next load of FUD for me to obliterate, plz?  

Then the problem is isolated in how the dice site is running its business, not the user's problem with the Lightning Network. Dice sites can also hold on-chain withdrawals if they wanted to.



What? That's paying $50 for an incoming channel capacity of 1 Bitcoin for someone. That means the "channel opening service" is staking 1 Bitcoin in Lightning.

Are you saying that that $50 created 1 BTC worth of "IOU pegged promises to pay tokens"?

I'll refer you to the Bitcoin Wiki, specifically Poon-Dryja payment channels.  There's a distinction between a payment channel that is closed unilaterally versus a payment channel that is closed with both parties in agreement.  If the Dice site have acknowledged your withdrawal (and it would be bad for any desire they might have for repeat-business if they didn't allow their customers to withdraw) you shouldn't face any issues.  The on-chain timelock is to prevent cheating and for when there is a dispute.

Well even though the Lightning network is in operations there are many things it needs to ponder to be called perfectly operational and mighty have a technical issue regarding transactions, But in my opinion, I guess even though there is no Lightning network Bitcoin Transaction works perfectly Fin for me and even though there are issue's involved in its core speed I guess patience is the only key it needs, I guess transaction fee may still occur even though you still apply Lightning Network.

You can download a mainnet (not testnet) desktop lightning wallet here (LND lightning labs) :

https://blog.lightning.engineering/announcement/2019/04/23/mainnet-app.html


Deposit a small amount of BTC you are comfortable with by pressing the small QR code on top left of main screen. (Note: You may have to wait longer than 6 confirmations initially as all the blocks and filters of the wallet  sync, so be patient.)

After the funds show up in the wallet, you should be aware that the default condition of the wallet is that a lightning channel will automatically be opened for you (small fee is taken). In other words, you don't have to do anything, just wait until the BTC has confirmed in the channel.

After that, you are ready to send lightning payments (it's more complicated to receive at first, but it can be done). YOU DON'T NEED A BITCOIN NODE RUNNING OR ANY TECHNICAL KNOWLEDGE.

Go to https://yalls.org/ and pay for an article to read there, or maybe Satoshi's place and add pixels to a picture there.  (Note: When you copy the invoice you want to pay, paste it into the wallet using the "edit" function at top left of wallet)

Seeing is believing!

Lighting Network is up and running but it is just not for all at the moment, there is a couple of services available that is using Lighting Network at the moment but it requires good money and high tech knowledge that is normal as LN is still in its early phase but with time things will be much easier and better.

That, or you aren't understanding the timelock part correctly.  You seem to be of the impression (or possibly just attempting to mislead less experienced users and give them the false impression) that you have to wait for the timelock to end before you can settle to the blockchain.  The idea is that you settle to the blockchain BEFORE the timelock expires.  It's a bad idea to wait for the timelock to run out.

going with YOUR premiss that Msats are simple a measure of real bitcoins.

when people pay for a channel using fiat/altcoin/coinbase balance/unconfirm(unlocked)btc. a service using the eltoo/factory concept creates a channel(HTLC) that contains msats

this means say someone paid using $50 coinbase FIAT balance. they can have opened a channel by a service where the user agree's to accept 1000000000msats(~$50) which they are happy to agree as the value is ~$50. yet although Msats are supposed to be
100000000000msat:1btc.. even though the fact that no btc was locked on btc blockchain, this means there is more pegged btc balance(msats) than actual locked BTC

the 'hope' / aim of fractional reserve services are to not let those handling these extra amounts from doing a bank run and claiming the real asset they are pegged/tethered/represent as that would cause big issues as there is not enough vaulted up asset to cover it all.
this is why you CANNOT broadcast a HTLC of Msats

this is why its important to not conceive Msats as real btc. but as a pegged token
this is why its important to not conceive a HTLC as the same thing as a bitcoin CLTV
this is why understanding the 'factory' concept is totally different from the broadcast concept.
this is why its important to understand there is no big community agreement/consensus. and any 2 parties can privately do as they like agreeing to a balance and then publishing available msats to the route system of litenodes that cant/wont check a blockchain for validity

Maybe you're right. But my point remains, for single payment, do on-chain, for small, multiple, repeating, continous payments, there's Lightning payments.


Explain in full detail how LN is a fractional reserve. I want to learn.

Both examples are wrong.

Companies paying employees would have to time lock their entire payroll for months to years.
No business is going to unnecessary lose access to their capital for such a long period of time,
especially considering LN own developers still promotes itself as beta and not ready for large funds.

Dice sites can take your initial deposit and you can choose your withdrawal at any point, (without time locks).
Until LN has many direct fiat to LN markets where people can bypass the ridiculous time locking , it is of no real value.  
When direct Fiat to LN conversions are the norm, makes you realize they never needed bitcoin at all.
Just a financial asset pegged so the LN fractional reserve would be accepted to the clueless masses.

I believe Lightning is also better suited for multiple payments to a participant than a single payment. A good example might be a company that pays it employees in Bitcoin, or a dice site that "streams" the coins back to you if you win, as you "stream" coins to it as you lose. Hahaha.

Network lightning will be a game changer after a mass adoption, but for now it is still in a development phase.

However, last results confirm that this technology is absolutely essential for crypto daily usage.

Also have had a tough time using LN the first time, and to tell you the truth, even up to now I'm still trying to grasp the basics of several clients that are suggested due to their user-friendliness. LN surely is up and running, and a lot of people have already tried it including myself, though not without painstaking processes and a lot of head scratching involved.

yes. Lightning network are worked for all user have a node of them wallet to send and received fast. when you don't have node you can use custodial wallet to easy received and send payment as LN, but you have to high fee as usuall chain when send to on chain wallet legacy or segwit.

I've used a lighting network wallet and you're correct that it is not a user-friendly wallet. But, it may not be user-friendly as we think still there's a progress that we can see. The fee is considerably low and the speed is quick. LN is for small payments and I'm looking forward to see large transactions that will go through LN. Give time to the development of LN and we're likely to see on how great such technology can make our problems solved in a decent manner.

LN is up. but technically and analogically, its hopping

LN is still on the process of development and improvement.
For you to be able to use it, you are required to reach a certain level of technical skills. You have to focus on setting up a Litecoin LN node. Once you're done with it, you can use the command line program to check out the comprehension tutorial. LN has a lot of improve yet it would provide us the convenience that we want.

I read a blog post of the Atomic Swap wallet confirming they are going to implement the lightening network, I wonder if this will be for all users. The lightening network currently have some technical set back in which case of transactions, the sender and the receiver need to be online.

Tough to understand initially due to the technicalities involved, but it is not the fully developed product since it is in its experimental phase currently. With time, it will become newbie friendly thanks to a plethora of tutorials to guide you and the node setup fees will continue to drop.

Also, Neutrino protocol will help by removing the necessity to download the entire blockchain.