Topic: Is this a punishable offence? (Read 623 times)

You're still not remorseful for what you've done, and you're talking about someone acting like they don't need cash that comes from signature campaigns? So, because we need cash we should sell our conscience to the devil for cash right? You don't even have dignity of labour? What a shame! Whatever happens to the mantra "There's dignity in labour?" You don't even put yourself for once in the shoes of those who've been scammed by the company whose logo you wear shamelessly like a slave and then know what it feels like losing your hard earned cash to a bunch of online fraudsters? All you care for is the pittance that comes from rogues? Dude, can't you just be empathetic to others who got scammed by those you advertise, even if it's just this once?

Don't come here to act like a safe heaven as if you are not after the money. You'll see everyone in 1×bit campaign as a money monger that is capable of being a scammer which is wrong. You guys red trust my account for joining the campaign and you still want me to leave, on what basis? Do the needful then I'll do my own part.
I believe in change that 1×bit would resolve all there accusations...so let's wait till then rather than judging me!

You asked this hilarious but obviously immoral question because you haven't been scammed before. If you had been scammed before, I'm sure you wouldn't be asking this type of question. How do you feel if a man who stole your wallet or other belongings walks pass your street freely every day? Pretty sad, right? That's the same way those who got scammed by the shady company you're promoting feel seeing the fraudulent company run advert on a noble forum like BTT. You guys were warned to take off the signature logo or risk getting red tags but all refused to heed to that warning.

So, you are also aware that what you are promoting is scam as of now? What makes you think that the DT members will reverse the feedback they left on your profile?
Just enjoy your scam money instead of coming here to make the whole situation look normal.

If you still have hope that 1xbit will resolve all the unresolved scam accusations, then you are putting your hope on a wrong company.

To answer your question yes it is something that you may be punished for.

Then again presenting independently verifiable truth is also something the warden of this forum supports so I wouldn't really worry about it.

It's in the discretion of the DT, if they deem that there's something wrong with and yes I think it should be punishable because you are enabling this group from their scamming behavior so you are basically an accomplice to whatever their doing.

Ops we all joined the campaign after our due diligence and come with terms of the risk involved in promoting a company that many views as a scam past accusations, but I will advise you to wait and hope that the 1xbit team continues with its consistent efforts in resolving the issues, that is the only way the red trust will get reviewed and reversed.

Is like some of them lacks the knowledge that promoting a scammer platform it assumed that you are also a scammer such wisdom escape from all the participants Brain, all those working with them are aware that the platform is a scam site, so any one giving excuses here base on the red trust given that their not aware of the campaign before they joined, so i stand to say it's a fallacy because the notification is everywhere, in summary everyone participating there is scammers because they are promoting scam site.

You are comparing 1xbit with Bestchange? I don't think they are equal each other. What happened with the Bestchange? When they come with a signature campaign without a Escrow. That time many of our reputed members warns for only non escrowed campaign. But after finishing one week when they paid people start to calm down.

Few days later someone come with 21k$ issue. This was also solved by them. And now who were against Bestchange and also did fight against them are wearing their signature.

But for 1xbit has a lot of issue in past. Still people are complaining/ creating scam accusation against them.

If they would have wanted to resolve all scam accusations, they would have done it by now. But paying back the amount they scammed would cost them serious money. It's much cheaper to hire red-trusted scammers like yourself to do their dirty work and pretend they're going legit.

As a general rule, for laws to take effect, they must be published in order for the people to know what the law is. It does not matter if they do not actually read the law, what matters is the constructive publication of it and its existence known to the people. In addition, there is no crime if there is no law punishing someone for it.

Just like what ETFbitcoin mentioned, it will be an arbitrary use of power to punish someone without even knowing what law/rule he violated. If the casino cannot disclose such rule but they use this against a person, this is just a denial of due process. At no instance that this must be allowed at any cost.

The issue of 1xbit is that they claim to have a series of rules that people violated but they fail to publish on what specific rule was violated.

It seems this isn't happening anytime soon, when it was best_change been questioned, they stepped up and that's the reason many users were ok promoting them because they actually showed concerned and resolved the accusations against them in the best way possible, it even resulted in them stopping any other promotion that could have given room to spammers and cheater polluting the forum with their alts as we can see with 1xBit.

After resolving their accusations, they increased their standard of accepting promoters & even their payrate and today they're among the best campaigns on the forum and among the top payers. On the other hands 1xBit seems to not care and keep giving opportunity to alts to spam the forum and you expect us to believe they're working towards resolving anything?.

To the OP, you chooses the wrong part hope you can get a second chance though. Assuming you weren't in a hurry to get paid for posting on the forum then maybe you would have seen the community has some unwritten guidelines of theirs something like this, [Infographic]: Guide on possible reasons to leave a -ve/+ve trust feedbacks, not perfect though but it'll give you an idea.

Sorry to say this, but trying to compare the 1xBit situation to what happened to BestChange is a lame attempt to make 1xbit look legit, yet it's not.

If I may ask, can you list at least 3 accusations in this forum were BestChange scammed or kept someone's money that were never resolved. I am waiting.

I could easily list over 15 genuine accusations against 1xbit that were never resolved.

I know scam accusations made against almost every casino that available in the gambling section. But as I said above, the reputed casino should address the problem and should solve it as well. A few days back there was an accusation against Sportsbet, and I was active on that accusation. But there was an explanation from Sportsbet and they settled it with the victim. In this situation, I can't call the Sportsbet scam. Here is the problem with 1xbit, they don't have any intention to resolve the accusation and they just sing an old song. If gamblers lost funds they don't have an issue with their terms and conditions, but once gamblers win then they start terms and conditions drama. This isn't a good sign for a casino.

It's pretty simple that wearing the signature of any company means we support their activities. Doesn't matter you are getting paid or not. You may voluntarily wear a signature, but the matter is you supporting them and their activities on the forum. If you feel 1xbit is doing well then up to you, we can't prevent you. We also can't prevent if any of the DT members tag in this situation. Because a major part of the community does not like to see 1xbit signature on the forum.

Tagging should be removed.

Flags alone should remain and they need to be based on objective reliable standards.

Tagging is apart of a wider scam and facilitates scamming in numerous undeniable ways.

Many are of the opinion those supporting or promoting scams are scammers.
Unless its them.

If you were tagged for promoting a proven scam that is different from promoting a tagged project.
Also intention should be evaluated if possible. This is for the currently flawed system.

Come on! I am aware of what is happening with 1xBit.
It is true that the situation with Best Change was settled friendly and fast, because in fact it was not as much problems as 1xBit has. Of course they need more time.
I watch them solve the issues and unfortunately there will always be situations that as you well know the casino cannot disclose. I don't like it either, but unfortunately that's how the law is constructed.
I see support talking to people submitting complaints almost every day.
With such a shattered opinion, it is difficult to defend yourself against any accusation and it is difficult to defend them in any way. What I am writing is just my opinion, which I try to be as objective as possible, although it probably won't be because they pay me.
I'm not saying that everything is great, but in my opinion it is going in the right direction and I keep my fingers crossed for it to keep going.

Yea, at the beginning BestChange has some issues. But do you know the difference between 1xbit and BestChange? The difference is BestChange enough friendly to resolve issues and they proved that. Whatever accusation was against BestChange has been solved. But on the other hand, 1xbit isn't friendly enough to solve user's issues. Rather than they stuck with their Terms & Conditions story. They just open the resolution thread, but no solution there. They denied all valid claims. You should know it better since you are wearing a 1xbit signature. Only running a signature campaign without solving user's issues would build a reputation here.

Maybe some do not know, and others probably forgot what was the situation with Best Change ?! They had to work to rebuild their reputation on Bitcointalk. Now many users wear their signature even in this thread.
It's true that 1xBit has a lot of issues, but from what I see, they try to fix it all the time.
In my opinion, they will bring things to order soon and many of you will change your mind about them, just as it happened with Best Change.
After all, this is what we all want.

If you try to promote anything after knowing that the site is scam or probably scam or there are a lot of scam accusation then it should be punishable for promoting a scam site. Promoting a scam site means you are try to scam funds by helping the scammer/scammers. Ethically you should avoid this types of promotions too.

Exactly, and wearing them besides advocating, you are blindly tolerating the deeds of the scam website which means that besides being a sort of an accomplice due to promoting the site through signature, you are also enabling and making sure that they will still operate because unsuspecting users will get curious and get scammed by this website.

Signatures are kind if advocating for the promoting site. If you are promoting something in the signature, you are giving the message to a lot of other people who may or may not know the status of your promoting site and after joining the casino and get scammed, your role here is also same as scammer because you helped scammer.

Actually a red trust is a penalty to anyone who is not doing what is not obtainable to the community, so the punishment is red trust, that's is the reason it doesn't been given any how or base on enemity or hatred to the community, it occurs base on the level of commitment,so therefore other users or people that's claiming to be newbies or novice have to learn or understand that what ever platform or community is kicking against is not supposed to be welcomed by anyone except a situation you are ready to face the consequences, so I'm using this time to let you know op, that the only person that have hundred percent (100%) right to remove your red tagged, is a user that red tagged you, but having it in mind that any other user your good with can free you from the red tag,i stand to let you know that its fallacy, and that is the reason it's good to follow the masses.

I'd say the Trust system should be used to protect others. So if OP's signature tries to scam users, negative feedback could warn those users.

Is it a punishable offense If a robber or murderer was identified by police, but then you go ahead and hide him away from the police in your house?

By consciously promoting a scam, it means you are no better than the scammer you are trying to promote, so you shouldn't be trusted.

One of the many uses of it.

But you also have a choice to know what's good and bad. That's why you have a brain in that thick skull of yours and not a watermelon.

Yes you were aware. There are warnings allover including the signature campaign application thread. The scam started years ago, and they are still scamming. It's not like they have stopped.

The money you are receiving to continue promoting them are probably winnings from someone's blocked account.

Good catch, most probably these are alt account although there is no strong evidence yet (hope it will discover once a day). They will not remove, because he thinks promoting scam isn't a crime since the forum hasn't been preventing them from posting on the forum. Simply OP doesn't know how a trust system works.

Because OP is a lair. He knows it is a scam and consciously he wore the signature. Now making a thread to remove negative tags. He doesn't have the intent to remove the signature. 

Pretty sure these accounts are controlled by the same person:

Desmong
Alisha-k
Ebede



Desmong had to wait to get some merits to apply.

They have all sent each other merit, all signed up for 1xbit, and all paste in relatively the same style in the same time zone.

All 3 accounts were given several chances to remove their signature and they didn't, so obviously they don't care. These are just 3 farmed accounts and he's gonna milk em for all they're worth.

What was done by: @logfiles & @robelneo, it's right, you get punished.

There are two factors here that cause you to get punished or not.

1. You know the site 1xbit scam / and you still promote them in this forum clearly, so it makes sense that other members warn other members who don't know about 1xbit on your profile, to prevent new victims.
If you are not in law with paint (Red) and put up sig constantly hanging around this forum, members who do not know about the site 1xbit, they think 1xbit is honest, it's not, in your case, @logfiles & @robelneo did the right thing to warn others, no new victims, if they check your (trust) they are written.

2. You already know the 1xbit site is a scam and you are not involved in promoting the 1xbit site and looking for another honest and responsible campaign, you are definitely not being punished.

Because deception is not moderated here, that's the function of punishment and trust is used, to warn other members.

Yes it's and I'll explain in the simplest way possible. If a project is believed to be a scam and has been tagged, anyone seen promoting it is seen as an accomplish to the scam. You're basically saying this project is worth the patronage, atleast that's what the signature ad reads to most users. Before you wear a company ad, you have to be ok with the operations of that company and if you're not then you're a hypocrite. Why promote what you don't agree to, just for the money? Nah that's low.

Since the project have been tagged a scam, all those promoting it are aiding in the scamming of community members and since the dt system was introduced to help tackle that anyone with the dt privilege is doing what is right doing to protect the community. Don't promoting scams, anybody doing so is no different than the scammers themselves.

It is not against the forum rules.

It is just a trust issue. You can promote anything you want. Even scamming is allowed. You just can't have people trust you anymore when you do that and trust is not moderated.

You can still make money by playing clean. Maybe less money, but you'll have some inner peace. Good luck.

Where were you when lots of discussions happen on the forum about the 1xbit campaign? It's surprising you hadn't noticed discussion but notice when you get the red tag. As I have seen last time there were no participants in 1xbit without a red tag. I can't imagine you haven't noticed the red tag of the campaign manager hence you are blaming you were unaware. Trust isn't moderated and all DT member's opinions aren't the same anyway. The community does not want to see 1xbit advertisements on the forum, either forum ads or signature ads. You are promoting a well-known scam means you are supporting them. Most likely that's why you got the tag. For me, I support this kind of tag, you should learn.

Trust is not moderated and the only one who can remove the negative feedback from your profile is the one who left it. Send a pm to robelneo and logfiles and try to convince them to remove their feedback.
Imo, users who promote scammy services deserve a second chance if they didn't know about the scam accusation or haven't been warned beforehand.

But on all cigarette packets you will see a warning label warning about the risks of smoking. A negative feedback serves the same purpose.

I assume you already know some of those issues but for some reason, you're still wearing their signature; Care to explain why?

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Exactly! @Desmong refer to #4 from the following list ^{[a bit outdated]}: Things not against forum rules but frowned upon by community!

Honestly, given the state of the trust system and even how it was structured from the start, I have no idea why it was created in the first place.  I've always been of the opinion that it's broken and prone to abuse and more often than not it does more harm than good.  As to the question of whether it was intended to deal with members who promote scams, I'd have to say probably not.  But in any case, whether you get tagged for being in a campaign for a company that's a scam or not is up to the member(s) who tagged you, not the forum itself.

Good question and one I've never been able to answer myself.  Theymos doesn't want bitcointalk to moderate scams or scammers, therefore both are allowed to exist here.  But (and this is a big but) that doesn't mean that the community at large has to support scams, scammers, or members who promote scams. 

You'll notice that you only got negged by two members for wearing the 1xbit.com signature, and only one of them is currently on the default trust list.  That should tell you that it's not a common practice to tag members who participate in campaigns run by companies known or suspected to be scammers--but members are allowed to give negative trust for that if they so choose.

TL;DR: Forum rules and community standards are two separate things and are sometimes in conflict with one another.  That's just the way it is on bitcointalk.

Punishments are only given to those who violate forum rules. Promoting scam services (proven) is not a violation and redtrust is not a form of punishment but just a warning tag to be more careful dealing with that person.

Anyone can reconsider feedback on redtrust(support or deny), no one including the tagger can get in the way if someone else wants to deal with you or vice versa.

There's a lot of additional rules on the application of trust system since theymos introduced it before. But the most important thing to consider was its decentralized so which means a DT can do which they think was right especially when other supports it. The original guidelines of the trust is too generalised that's why a DT can apply it base on there own perspective.

Simply, You are promoting campaign which means you allowing them to use you as a tool to scam. Simple logic can understand the point.

I am not totally sure about the tagging for only participating in scam campaign. But Personally I don't think it's a good criteria of a member here /looks shady to me.

Did you see 1xbit started a promotion officially in this forum by winning forum auction ? Later Theymos rejected them when can know about 1xbit reputation. That means forum don't allow such shady reputed project in this forum officially.

I can just say atleast you should follow what the community say and support.

Is it a punishable offence for one to promote a site that is tagged a scam?

Why is the red trust system created? Is it meant to be used against individuals that participate in campaigns of sites that are tagged scam? Why does the forum allows the operation of these sites when they Know that they'll evil?

Telling people not to smoke and still giving them cigarettes is evil which should not be condone. In as much as the forum give liberty for individual ads on this site without being penalized if anything goes wrong, i think I have the same liberty to join any campaign of my choice.

I was never aware of the scam issues of 1×bit from the start which occurred many years ago. Some persons used the avenue to red trust me just because I participated in it which is unfair. Why not they penalize the original site rather than the participants that has nothing to do with the original scene, misusing the main motive behind the creation of the Red Trusting System.

I come in peace!