Is Trading Costing Us More Than We Think?

lixer

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 17, 2024, 10:19:44 AM

Quote from: Wakate on December 16, 2024, 01:22:35 PM

One thing about trading is the ability for us to leverage trades so that when we are making loses, it will be less compared to the winnings we are getting. You can have 5 times loses and 2 wins and the winnings are 10X bigger than all the losses. This is how trading supposed to reflex so that we don't get too exhausted about trading. There are still traders that do think how often you do get winning trades is what determines your success as traders. Things do not work in this proportion. It is better we have much loses and few winnings but the amounts involved is bigger than our entire loses. Many traders are very wise and go trades that have high winning ratio compared to the loses.

I agree with you on this 100% because it's an experience I have had as a trader, there were weeks I made losses after a quite number of trades and then just one won trade on the next day get to cover all the number of lost trades made. Making profits from trading is in different dimensions but many traders thinks that it's when your number of won trade exceeds your number of loss trades that's when you're making progress but it ain't so. Been able to take advantage of one single trade by making huge profits from it is what makes the difference.

Usually when we are on board for the trading we have things which can happen suddenly, so mostly peoples never check fees or costs about trades but while they have profit things turn automatically because usually if we have early loses we are learning and things are going favourable for us to have more maturity and understanding of things and success give us pleasure and also all recovery I personally never check cost or fees I try to manage things.

In early days of trading, I was having frustration but as I have experience and I learn from my mistakes now I go through without checking things like these which give me better results and good results usually we have all recoveries while we are in plus and if we are ending in loses then many things calculated.

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Quote from: Sebas.tian on December 17, 2024, 11:15:41 PM

There are lot of things you will experience from trading as a new trader, it will look as if you are not going to make it from decentralized trading, because it's very difficult for you to know the amount of income you are going to receive when you begin trading your coins in the market. Despite trading is not easy to make a huge amount of income as a new trader but don't give up, because the more you have the experience of trading the more you begin to see some challenges that is causing you not to make progress.

Decentralized trading and that of centralized aren't different but you'll be using two different types of trading platforms and that's the major difference. I don't want people to do what isn't giving them profits hence if trading is because hard for you, it means you don't know what you're doing and you have to quit for sometime. Use that time that you stopped trading to be learning again because trading without being well taught isn't going to favour you. Your victories will only be temporary and it depends on luck for you to win. Here's what can happen in this situation, you can decide to keep trying and finally you can get lucky but you would have lost some money during this period that you aren't making good trades hence just pausing for a while is best.

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Quote from: Strongkored on December 17, 2024, 02:10:47 AM

Not really paying attention to trading fees because in my opinion if it's already profitable it means profit, so I don't want to be bothered with things like that, what's actually annoying is when I see high withdrawal fees because it's clear that this reduces the profit obtained, sometimes exchanges set unreasonable withdrawal fees, like the local exchange that I usually use applies 20k satoshi for BTC withdrawal fees, they should start adjusting with the current BTC price because only whales can accept withdrawal fees that big.

You should know better that centralized exchanges are business center, their motive is to make money, so when you see situations like that, you should know why you sign up and accepted their terms and conditions in the first place. Binance exchange for example charge more transactions fees when the blockchain is busy and they quickly reduce the fee once the network is having low transactions, I haven't see other exchanges practices, they just extort there customers the way they like.

You're even lucky, I remember in 2019 I didn't verify my account on Binance since it was the best exchange back then for my local deposit. I had to settle for Luno where you can do your but and sell directly to your local bank before they later implement their kyc. That exchange was extorting me even when I make deposits, like the exchanges takes a % from you anytime you deposited Bitcoin, I was using them for a while before I finally left them for goo, now they don't even have customers again.

Sebas.tian

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There are lot of things you will experience from trading as a new trader, it will look as if you are not going to make it from decentralized trading, because it's very difficult for you to know the amount of income you are going to receive when you begin trading your coins in the market. Despite trading is not easy to make a huge amount of income as a new trader but don't give up, because the more you have the experience of trading the more you begin to see some challenges that is causing you not to make progress. Every traders wish to be making income whenever they are trading in the general market but there is no how some traders will not experience losses, because the traders are not trading the same coins in the market.

Lida93

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Quote from: Wakate on December 16, 2024, 01:22:35 PM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 12, 2024, 08:21:12 AM

But even if as a trader I had to trade very veryyy often, and it happens that am winning more trades 3x more than an making losses in my total number of trading times it still won't be anything to go by in crossing my mind about the fees that goes with each trade. I can only make a big deal about that when the losses becomes to numerous to bear.

One thing about trading is the ability for us to leverage trades so that when we are making loses, it will be less compared to the winnings we are getting. You can have 5 times loses and 2 wins and the winnings are 10X bigger than all the losses. This is how trading supposed to reflex so that we don't get too exhausted about trading. There are still traders that do think how often you do get winning trades is what determines your success as traders. Things do not work in this proportion. It is better we have much loses and few winnings but the amounts involved is bigger than our entire loses. Many traders are very wise and go trades that have high winning ratio compared to the loses.

I agree with you on this 100% because it's an experience I have had as a trader, there were weeks I made losses after a quite number of trades and then just one won trade on the next day get to cover all the number of lost trades made. Making profits from trading is in different dimensions but many traders thinks that it's when your number of won trade exceeds your number of loss trades that's when you're making progress but it ain't so. Been able to take advantage of one single trade by making huge profits from it is what makes the difference.

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Quote from: MarvieJ on November 28, 2024, 05:08:04 AM

A while back, I took a hard look at how much I was spending on trading fees. Futures, spot, perpetuals, it didn’t matter. The total hit me like a punch to the gut. For every trade I carefully planned, a chunk of my profit was quietly eaten away. And the more I traded, the worse it got.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve had my wins. There’s nothing like the thrill of catching a perfect market move. But when I looked closer, I realized the fees were taking a bigger piece of the pie than I’d like to admit. It got me wondering, why don’t more platforms offer something meaningful to offset these costs?

An insightful reader can't get you wrong, you've already stated the view of winning and losing in the first paragraph and I am happy to tell you that you are getting closer to success if you can rather be patient and work more on your discipline and money/risk management. However, the excuse for the fees is baseless, I trade daily, even with traditional brokers despite their insane spreads, trading commissions and swaps that look like extortion. But exchanges are contrarily offering ridiculously low fees, except you use a high leverage.

knowngunman

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Quote from: Ziskinberg on November 28, 2024, 05:30:00 AM

I don't use a lot of sites when it comes to trading, I use Binance,.. one thing I could recommend is this.

https://www.bitdegree.org/crypto/tutorials/binance-fees

Quote

For example, by holding a specific amount of BNB, you can unlock up to a 25% discount on Binance maker-taker fees—a handy perk for frequent traders.

You'll get discount when using BNB for your trading pairs, that's already big. However, if you really want to enjoy no trading fees, you'll need to find the right timing and wait for promos like zero trading fees although very rate... I think this is also available on other exchanges, just try to explore.

If you pay attention to your quote you will see "by holding a specific amount of BNB" that specific amount might not be amount that upcoming traders can easily hold because it'll probably worth a reasonable amount.

The reality is that most promos offer by this exchanges are meant to favour bigger traders who trade with larger amounts. The criteria attached to unlock some of the promo benefits are way too much to meet by people like Op that complain about the cent trading fees. Unless one is advocating for free trading which is not possible, the trading fee is too meager to be noticed unless you are using a very smaller amount to trade. We have to understand that exchanges are business organisations and they are after profits.

Strongkored

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Not really paying attention to trading fees because in my opinion if it's already profitable it means profit, so I don't want to be bothered with things like that, what's actually annoying is when I see high withdrawal fees because it's clear that this reduces the profit obtained, sometimes exchanges set unreasonable withdrawal fees, like the local exchange that I usually use applies 20k satoshi for BTC withdrawal fees, they should start adjusting with the current BTC price because only whales can accept withdrawal fees that big.

tygeade

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Quote from: Wakate on December 16, 2024, 01:22:35 PM

One thing about trading is the ability for us to leverage trades so that when we are making loses, it will be less compared to the winnings we are getting. You can have 5 times loses and 2 wins and the winnings are 10X bigger than all the losses. This is how trading supposed to reflex so that we don't get too exhausted about trading. There are still traders that do think how often you do get winning trades is what determines your success as traders. Things do not work in this proportion. It is better we have much loses and few winnings but the amounts involved is bigger than our entire loses. Many traders are very wise and go trades that have high winning ratio compared to the loses.

Yeah, if you make 10 trades, lose 8 of them and win 2 of them, the 8 losses could be 800 dollars, whereas 2 wins could be 1500 dollars, suddenly you are in a profit. That's the most important part and we could consider that winning big when you win, or overall making a profit is more important than having just how many wins you have.

As long as we have something like this, then we could consider this to be the most important part and if we do that then we are going to end up with a much better approach to this, don't really consider this to be that much of a big deal, how many we win is not the issue and that's the deal, we need to just check how to make money from amount of profit and not amount of trades that are in profit at all.

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 12, 2024, 08:21:12 AM

Quote from: betswift on December 12, 2024, 07:56:03 AM

Quote from: Lida93 on December 12, 2024, 07:51:33 AM

The exchanges we use for trading do use those fees in running their day to day services of the platform and also to the welfare of their employees and paying of taxes to the authority. With all of these considered I don't find it as anything to worry about. What should be of immense concern to a trader is how he can maximise his trading skills and strategies to making huge profits than losses because what those trading platforms take as fees is nothing compared to what most of us loss on a bad trade.

You may be right - it's only a concern if the depo is such a big pile of funds or a trader does trades very, veryyyy often.
Otherwise - it may not be such a big problem.

But even if as a trader I had to trade very veryyy often, and it happens that am winning more trades 3x more than an making losses in my total number of trading times it still won't be anything to go by in crossing my mind about the fees that goes with each trade. I can only make a big deal about that when the losses becomes to numerous to bear.

One thing about trading is the ability for us to leverage trades so that when we are making loses, it will be less compared to the winnings we are getting. You can have 5 times loses and 2 wins and the winnings are 10X bigger than all the losses. This is how trading supposed to reflex so that we don't get too exhausted about trading. There are still traders that do think how often you do get winning trades is what determines your success as traders. Things do not work in this proportion. It is better we have much loses and few winnings but the amounts involved is bigger than our entire loses. Many traders are very wise and go trades that have high winning ratio compared to the loses.

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Quote from: el kaka22 on December 13, 2024, 03:33:00 PM

We haven't seen an exact number or figure from OP so we do not know what they think is a lot.

Maybe we can just assume that he is among those budget traders? Because if not, then a fee will only be nothing for him no matter how much is it. I mean it is also impossible for us to have a hundred dollar or a thousand dollar of fees right? And we are talking about trading here where a lot of coins can also get involved and some cryptos has a cheaper fee than in Bitcoin. Even BTC fees can also subside as long as we will only wait for the storm or the demand/traffic to calm down.

Quote from: el kaka22 on December 13, 2024, 03:33:00 PM

and if you end up using BNB to pay, that means you are going to end up with even less,.

Yeah, it's one of those cheap coins that I'm talking about earlier and we can even save more fees if we are using it inside its own team's exchange which was Binance. For other exchanges, they also have their own tokens and we might also get the same deal if we use them there.

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Quote from: Familian on December 12, 2024, 05:05:52 PM

These exchanges are out for business and they all will want to set competitive trading fees for users and that's what makes it's a choice for users to choose which platform with favourable fees for them but I'm doing so they ought to remember not choosing an exchange because it's with a very low fees without considering it's reputation and longtime standing in the industry to avoid losing our funds to scam exchanges.

The fees are all similar with only a few being different, I have looked at most exchange charges and the new ones aren't making theirs any cheaper but almost similar to those of already existing exchange. What newer exchange work on is their marketing through partnership because they believe that when they do their marketing right, that they'll be able to get their own customers and too, steal from their counterparts. Having zero withdrawal charges are some other ways they use to bring customers to their own exchanges. More traders are getting recruited on some of the popular exchanges and leaving no room for the newly launched ones. The reputation of an exchange is always important before anything else so we don't get scammed trying to look for a cheaper exchange to trade on.

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Quote from: Cookdata on December 14, 2024, 10:48:32 AM

Quote from: Familian on December 12, 2024, 05:05:52 PM

These exchanges are out for business and they all will want to set competitive trading fees for users and that's what makes it's a choice for users to choose which platform with favourable fees for them but I'm doing so they ought to remember not choosing an exchange because it's with a very low fees without considering it's reputation and longtime standing in the industry to avoid losing our funds to scam exchanges.

I will choose reputation before any other things an exchange offer, most of the problems that we have from exchanges are result of bad reputations from the team. Look at Mt gox, FTX and Hotbit, the team carelessness lead the exchange to where it is today, things that are cheap can be very dangerous, it's better you look out for reputation before any other things. If this exchanges that collapse were able to refund the affect customers, crypto space will be stronger than the way it's right now.

Mt gox recently distributed their Bitcoin to the affected customers, catastrophe event that happens more than 10 years ago, only lord knows when FTX will give back to their customers. I don't like centralized exchanges but some of them are better than each other regardless of their trading fees.

Reputation is a factor that should be prioritized over any other factor to ensure our safety, but their reputation will not bring us absolute safety. Before its collapse, Mt.gox was the largest exchange at the time while FTX was the 3rd exchange on the chart and considered Binance's biggest competitor. But both collapsed, causing severe damage to investors and markets. So, it's not wrong to prioritize reputation when choosing an exchange, but don't be subjective because it doesn't guarantee anything .

Centralized exchanges are not trustworthy but the problem is that for traders we have almost no other choice, only centralized exchanges provide trading services.

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Quote from: Rruchi man on November 28, 2024, 09:10:02 AM

Focus more on increasing the profit you make, so you don't have to worry about the fees these platforms are getting.

Fees are important because from a little experience, they are different from one trading platform to another. As a trader just on the exchange, your goal is to make the most profit and minimize any loss that can be avoided. The knowledge of different trading fees on each of the platforms will decide whether to move there or remain where you are.

Quote from: Oshosondy on November 28, 2024, 01:47:37 PM

MEXC has just increased their spot trading fee to 0.05% for market makers and takers. But their future trading fee still remains as 0.02% for takers while 0% for makers. I prefer the exchange if I want to trade futures. You can even set the close position order TP with limit order so that no fee would be deducted if the order is filled.

Do you know how these maker and taker fees on these cryptocurrency trading platforms are calculated? My observation is that whenever I don't use any leverage and I try to trade $100 in futures market, the fee I get charged is above $50 which is high.

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Quote from: iBaba on December 14, 2024, 03:06:15 PM

Trading is all about money and one's ability to nuture his/her psychology. It matters a lot in gaining a stronger chances of making more profit when trading. Trading is not easy to be honest, it requires mental maturity and stamina. Ultimately, it requires one's ability to be consistent. Losses happen in trading, it's a normal thing however, it also gives birth to winning and immediately you get an edge over the market, it gives the trader a balance, giving you the capacity to trade more and more.

It is really related to psychology and if not handled properly it will actually give birth to extraordinary panic and can be even more biased.
Trading must be carried out if someone is ready to face the risk because even though we have knowledge, if we are not able to control the risk it will end up worse.
Losses are a natural thing but steps need to be taken to minimize them because it is impossible to be involved in trading by experiencing losses all the time.
I believe that knowledge and experience will provide an overview for people involved in trading and in that way people will be much easier to recognize the impact of the risks generated and we also cannot guarantee that trading can provide consistent profits.

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Trading could only be costly if you ain’t making a significant profit of it.
Think about it: why is it that most people want to be traders?
That’s simply because, it’s a profitable space where you have the opportunity to make a lot of money or the commodity for which you trade on. If you’re actually winning in your trades and making a lot of money from it, then you would see it to be worth whatever effort you put into trading. When it’s otherwise, you might want to rest it but, rest it and then you’ve truly lost.

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 12, 2024, 08:21:12 AM

But even if as a trader I had to trade very veryyy often, and it happens that am winning more trades 3x more than an making losses in my total number of trading times it still won't be anything to go by in crossing my mind about the fees that goes with each trade. I can only make a big deal about that when the losses becomes to numerous to bear.

Trading is all about money and one's ability to nuture his/her psychology. It matters a lot in gaining a stronger chances of making more profit when trading. Trading is not easy to be honest, it requires mental maturity and stamina. Ultimately, it requires one's ability to be consistent. Losses happen in trading, it's a normal thing however, it also gives birth to winning and immediately you get an edge over the market, it gives the trader a balance, giving you the capacity to trade more and more.

Cookdata

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Quote from: Familian on December 12, 2024, 05:05:52 PM

These exchanges are out for business and they all will want to set competitive trading fees for users and that's what makes it's a choice for users to choose which platform with favourable fees for them but I'm doing so they ought to remember not choosing an exchange because it's with a very low fees without considering it's reputation and longtime standing in the industry to avoid losing our funds to scam exchanges.

I will choose reputation before any other things an exchange offer, most of the problems that we have from exchanges are result of bad reputations from the team. Look at Mt gox, FTX and Hotbit, the team carelessness lead the exchange to where it is today, things that are cheap can be very dangerous, it's better you look out for reputation before any other things. If this exchanges that collapse were able to refund the affect customers, crypto space will be stronger than the way it's right now.

Mt gox recently distributed their Bitcoin to the affected customers, catastrophe event that happens more than 10 years ago, only lord knows when FTX will give back to their customers. I don't like centralized exchanges but some of them are better than each other regardless of their trading fees.

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Quote from: Lida93 on December 12, 2024, 08:21:12 AM

But even if as a trader I had to trade very veryyy often, and it happens that am winning more trades 3x more than an making losses in my total number of trading times it still won't be anything to go by in crossing my mind about the fees that goes with each trade. I can only make a big deal about that when the losses becomes to numerous to bear.

the only time where the fee might seem painful is when we're so unsure of the market, always doing a massive buy by market price and then trying to rotate to other coin quite often just for the sake of fitting in into the narrative.

I can see the exchange getting 2-3 USD everytime i rotate for each grand that I exchange LOL Grin

.

but yeah, it's actually nothing at all when we're making literal thousands of dollars from a good trade, after all, these exchanges got something to take care and their platform has been such a big help.

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We haven't seen an exact number or figure from OP so we do not know what they think is a lot. If you trade every single day, and I mean literally every single day, and then at the end of the year you just spent a thousand or two, then that's normal isn't it? I mean we are talking about tens of thousands even hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of trading going on from a single source, and paying a bit for that isn't really that big.

I mean we are talking about just 0.1 right? That's what they take, 0.1% from maker and taker, that means if you are trading 100k dollars, that's literally hundred thousand dollars, that is just 100 dollars for the action. I am not sure if that's a lot, and if you end up using BNB to pay, that means you are going to end up with even less, like 75 bucks. That's nothing.

Topic: Is Trading Costing Us More Than We Think? (Read 1081 times)