Isn't trading almost like gambling? - page 7.

khiholangkang

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

Today I visited a friend who is a forex trader, according to him he trades on the USD, gold and BTC and I normally don't fancy the idea of trading because it appears a bit complex for my understanding and from my little knowledge, it seems as though trading is almost same as gambling because at the end of your analysis you're not sure of the outcome of the trade since it's basically a short term adventure and the volatile nature of most traded items depict it to be uncertain with time.

He has lost almost $5000 dollar in course of his trade and he is still positive that he is going to recover all is lost money back in his next trade. I don't really know how trading works that much cause what I have learnt and I have been used to is to Buy a certain asset like the BTC or any valuable asset that will appreciate with time and HODL it. I know that this strategy isn't for someone of his kind that's basically looking for any immediate means of doubling his income and so long term investment won't necessarily seem a good idea for him.

My question is, isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

I used to think like this before, and after I reviewed again there were so many different views from everyone, and looked at various elements of why trading can be considered gambling and how trading is not considered gambling.
I read someone's review on the forum and I received statements outside the forum from various experts and speculators, but I was quite forgetful not to save the links and posts, after I thought and considered why the trading that was done was considered gambling was 1 because it did not have a calculation method which meant just guessing the price and the second most important thing was that what was traded was not the original item or what we used to call derivative products or forex, I conclude that, and why trading is not considered gambling, it is as simple as the trader knows what he is buying at his risk and also what is being traded is a real item or what we call a spot asset (you receive the goods into your pocket). Both of these traits take away from the equation the nature of gambling.

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

it seems as though trading is almost same as gambling because at the end of your analysis you're not sure of the outcome of the trade since it's basically a short term adventure and the volatile nature of most traded items depict it to be uncertain with time.

I don't know if it was Warran Buffet or Elon Musk that called trading gambling. If you don't understand how trading works it might seem as if it is gambling because both has same nature and even same rule of "Don't invest what you are not able to lose". "Don't gamble with what you cannot afford to lose."

Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

He has lost almost $5000 dollar in course of his trade and he is still positive that he is going to recover all is lost money back in his next trade.

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

We cannot just determine if he will make his 5k back because we do not know the type of trading he did. If he traded futures the 5k is gone. If he is on spot, the coin could possibly reverse and I doubt that spot will sink his money in that nature.

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Well we here this almost every day that trading is more like gambling, which is most likely to be short term trading. why it's refered to as likely trading is because of the issues of loses that even expert in analysis of the market still lose money while trading such as gamblers who are even experienced over the years of gambling yet loss because the market isn't predictable as games aren't predictable because it solely a game of luck.

in making this kind of reference one should be aware that there are some traders who are likely to loss less because of the mastering skills they have but although they loss, in the context of gambling one is even running a more risky game because you could get addicted which makes gambling more risky.

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I think this difference of opinion has existed for a long time. Many people think that trading is the same as gambling, but most other people think that it is very different from gambling. In trading itself, we choose assets to buy and sell based on research and analysis. It is true that sometimes we do the analysis wrong, but that is a normal thing in business and investment. However, in trading itself, we do not lose the assets we own, but the value of the assets we own decreases. Meanwhile, in gambling itself, when we make a wrong prediction, all the assets we bet on are lost.

Apart from that, sometimes people who trade are quite confident in their analysis and research, so when they enter the world of trading, they can be optimistic about getting their losses back. However, it all depends on what strategy he carries out, and there is no guarantee of returning the value of the assets he owns. Yes, there are many differences between gambling and trading, but it all comes back to each person's perspective.

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

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My question is, isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

Different people have different answers to this one.
For me, trading is only considered as gambling "ONLY" if the trader doesn't know anything about it, or at least he is consistently losing money because he has little to no knowledge about it.

Trading and gambling have different ways of winning. In trading, you need knowledge and skills, and you don't need luck whereas in gambling, you need a bit of knowledge about the game (or even no knowledge will sometimes do), a little bit of skills (depending on the game you're playing), and a huge amount of luck for you to win. Trading might be considered as gambling under some factors, but gambling can't be considered as trading.

Recovering $5,000? It's possible that he will use a huge capital to recover it. He can if he's lucky enough. I mean if he wins on a lotto then he can recover it in an instant.

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on February 26, 2024, 07:52:28 AM

This is also happening in your daily life. When you apply for a job, are you sure that the company will hire you? Or when you study and work hard, are you sure that you will have a rich life in the future? Basically, our lives are a gamble because no one can be sure and know what will happen in the future. Furthermore, as you said, you do not understand anything about trading, financial markets, bitcoin... nor do you have any knowledge about it, so on what basis do you think it is similar to gambling? You should not jump to conclusions about anything if you know nothing about it.

This is the point of it, taking a risk doesn't equal to gambling because gambling is guaranteed to lose since the house edge guarantees that whereas life is full of taking risks. Trading is not "almost" like gambling, it has nothing to do with it, if you are a good trader then you will earn, there is no downside to it at all, you can be the greatest gambler in the world and you will still not make a living out of it because house edge prevents that.

So all in all, unless we are talking about something different, some variations of it, some detailed parts of it, the general concept of gambling and general concept of trading has nothing to do with each other. Gambling is not risk taking, those are two different things, not all risk taking would be considered a gamble.

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

Today I visited a friend who is a forex trader, according to him he trades on the USD, gold and BTC and I normally don't fancy the idea of trading because it appears a bit complex for my understanding and from my little knowledge, it seems as though trading is almost same as gambling because at the end of your analysis you're not sure of the outcome of the trade since it's basically a short term adventure and the volatile nature of most traded items depict it to be uncertain with time.

He has lost almost $5000 dollar in course of his trade and he is still positive that he is going to recover all is lost money back in his next trade. I don't really know how trading works that much cause what I have learnt and I have been used to is to Buy a certain asset like the BTC or any valuable asset that will appreciate with time and HODL it. I know that this strategy isn't for someone of his kind that's basically looking for any immediate means of doubling his income and so long term investment won't necessarily seem a good idea for him.

My question is, isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

Depending on the trader in question this could be either true or false, there are many persons out there that think about themselves as traders, but in fact they are gamblers as they are not using a strategy they verified against the markets and they are simply following their gut feeling.

If your friend is like that then he is gambling without a doubt and there is not much of a chance for him to recover the money he has lost, but if instead he has prepared himself appropriately and understands that earning profits by trading does not bring immediate success, and he is willing to wait until the market comes to him and offers him a favorable trade, I would think he will eventually recover the money he has lost.

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Quote from: Sanitough on February 26, 2024, 06:59:39 PM

Quote from: the rise on February 26, 2024, 03:25:02 PM

(...)

Some gambling games also require skills more than luck. But since the casino has always an edge over its players and the casino house should always be on the winning side, the chances to gain profits is still low. Although some are winning exceptional amount of profits, but eventually when the gamblers stay betting, the casino will also get it back gradually until those profits have turned into zero.

However, in trading, skills and right strategies will always dominate a positive outcome. If you are a well-experienced and an expert trader, the chances to stay profitable is certainly high, but also since the trading market is quite uncertain and you have no idea how the prices of those coins move in the market, at least you still need quite of luck to stay successful on your trades.

This means, in trading, you can be a successful trader and profitable than become a gambler where most of the time you are relying on the luck here.
For me, with proper education, you can't say trading is gambling. Because if you learn everything that will help you to become good trader like risk management, technical analysis and fundamental analysis, you have high chance to become profitable.

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Quote from: freedomgo on February 26, 2024, 06:20:05 PM

Gambling and trading are alike, yet different from each other. While trading and gambling can both endure quick and consistent losses, if you execute them with greed. However, if you are just following the basics in trading and you do it with patience and consistency to learn and develop your skills, your trades will be done with full of efforts, most likely you will gain a successful trading outcome. Once you succeed and become profitable with your trades, you are not doing it like gambling anymore, but you do trading because you have the potentials to succeed on your craft.

By following the basics of trading and also developing skills in trading, we will certainly be able to become experts in trading and we will be able to minimize the possibility of losses that we will incur from the trades we make so that we will be able to gain profits from these trades, but very different from gambling, no matter how often we gamble and if we don't have luck in gambling of course we won't be able to win the gambling because we will lose in gambling if we don't have luck and if we gamble and also trade greedily of course we will experience losses because we has been forceful in doing so and is unable to make the right decision in the matter.

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Quote from: the rise on February 26, 2024, 03:25:02 PM

in terms of risk between short term trading and gambling is almost the same, but you equate gambling and trading is wrong, because trading requires skill, different from gambling such as dice, slots which do not require anything to play just in one click you can see the results with fast, if your trading prioritizes skill over luck

Some gambling games also require skills more than luck. But since the casino has always an edge over its players and the casino house should always be on the winning side, the chances to gain profits is still low. Although some are winning exceptional amount of profits, but eventually when the gamblers stay betting, the casino will also get it back gradually until those profits have turned into zero.

However, in trading, skills and right strategies will always dominate a positive outcome. If you are a well-experienced and an expert trader, the chances to stay profitable is certainly high, but also since the trading market is quite uncertain and you have no idea how the prices of those coins move in the market, at least you still need quite of luck to stay successful on your trades.

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Quote from: Assface16678 on February 26, 2024, 05:55:50 PM

No, gambling and trading are totally different in terms of their aspects. In trading, you can increase your chances of earning through analysis or doing technical analysis or things that could help you predict the movement of the market. Indicators and signals are some of the tools that can be used, and of course, you will use your mind and skills that you could develop in trading over time. At least in trading, you are not doing that thing aimlessly.

While gambling, although some games require skills and mind, the thing is that your winnings could be based on luck, and there is no guarantee that you could win. Yes, gambling and trading are the same in terms of losing money. If you do them without caution, you might lose more than you earn. And lastly, gambling cannot be considered a source of income, while trading can be at some point if done correctly.

Gambling and trading are alike, yet different from each other. While trading and gambling can both endure quick and consistent losses, if you execute them with greed. However, if you are just following the basics in trading and you do it with patience and consistency to learn and develop your skills, your trades will be done with full of efforts, most likely you will gain a successful trading outcome. Once you succeed and become profitable with your trades, you are not doing it like gambling anymore, but you do trading because you have the potentials to succeed on your craft.

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No, gambling and trading are totally different in terms of their aspects. In trading, you can increase your chances of earning through analysis or doing technical analysis or things that could help you predict the movement of the market. Indicators and signals are some of the tools that can be used, and of course, you will use your mind and skills that you could develop in trading over time. At least in trading, you are not doing that thing aimlessly.

While gambling, although some games require skills and mind, the thing is that your winnings could be based on luck, and there is no guarantee that you could win. Yes, gambling and trading are the same in terms of losing money. If you do them without caution, you might lose more than you earn. And lastly, gambling cannot be considered a source of income, while trading can be at some point if done correctly.

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Quote from: Franctoshi on February 26, 2024, 02:36:37 PM

Your approach towards the market determines the results you would get, there are traders who gamble in the market thinking they are trading, when you don't have a rule base strategy that you follow, simply you are gambling and not trading, plenty of traders don't have trading plans, and when they lose money they will come back and say that trading is gambling, but if you enter the market with the right approach, usually you will be in the winning side.

Trading without understanding how it can be done rightly and successfully is a complete gambling. Yes you are trading, but when you trade with uncertainty and you keep on losing for a quick period of time, it’s clear that you are trading like a gambler. You are trading not because of mere profits but you are trading because you are knowledgeable and skillful about it, and you have varied strategies that you have been working just to create your trades more successful and profitable. Otherwise, if you don’t see trading this way, most likely you are gambling.

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

Isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

Basically, trading is different than gambling. Sure, there is no guarantee for profits but we can increase the chance for taking profits if we have good knowledge. When we have good knowledge, we understand which strategy/tactics will be effective for our trading. We also can choose the most potential coins for trading and we know when the right time for entry-exit. In gambling, whatever the tactic and how good your knowledge may have no impact on the result of gambling. It is because most of gambling games only rely on the luck.

Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

It depends on how he trade. If he got a lesson and he improves his trading strategy, he may return the money in few months. But if he only trade in the same way, I doubt he can recover the losses. Grin

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

My question is, isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

It is gambling for a trader who doesn't know about trading and just relies on luck not on their knowledge and skills.
It is gambling for a person who never knows what are the things needed. And this somewhat happens in real life as most traders enter the market with no idea.

Quote

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

Uncertain, maybe he could if he changed his strategy and improved his skills. But if not, instead of getting back his money, he even loses more. There is nothing wrong with chasing those losses in trading but if we make no changes, we only fail. In this case, it is better to quit trading and find other ways to earn money rather than hoping for this as it never works exactly to what we wanted.

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Quote from: the rise on February 26, 2024, 03:25:02 PM

in terms of risk between short term trading and gambling is almost the same, but you equate gambling and trading is wrong, because trading requires skill, different from gambling such as dice, slots which do not require anything to play just in one click you can see the results with fast, if your trading prioritizes skill over luck

Trading can be considered gambling when you just buy without knowing what you are doing. Assets move in all directions influenced by fundamentals, both positive and negative news. Without analysis - a trader only relies on price volatility and luck to make a profit, it can be considered gambling, but trading and gambling are so close that only your approach will differentiate.

Even though gamblers have a risk tolerance - but they tend to fail to manage their risks well. Gamblers also do analysis - especially in games such as sports betting, but gambling and trading are really different, especially when looking at the goals and motives of each enthusiast.

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in terms of risk between short term trading and gambling is almost the same, but you equate gambling and trading is wrong, because trading requires skill, different from gambling such as dice, slots which do not require anything to play just in one click you can see the results with fast, if your trading prioritizes skill over luck

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Quote from: Franctoshi on February 26, 2024, 02:36:37 PM

Your approach towards the market determines the results you would get, there are traders who gamble in the market thinking they are trading, when you don't have a rule base strategy that you follow, simply you are gambling and not trading, plenty of traders don't have trading plans, and when they lose money they will come back and say that trading is gambling, but if you enter the market with the right approach, usually you will be in the winning side.

Thats exactly the reason why we have more losers in trading than winner as they are unable to distinguish between trading and gambling as they assume they are trading but any trade without a proper strategy is plain gambling. I think nowadays people have finally started taking technical indicators and charts seriously compared to past. But, we miss out an important aspect what made them think they can trade without strategy? I think they think if a coin dips it will pump and vice versa hence we are zeroing it down on lack of knowledge for this blunder.

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Your approach towards the market determines the results you would get, there are traders who gamble in the market thinking they are trading, when you don't have a rule base strategy that you follow, simply you are gambling and not trading, plenty of traders don't have trading plans, and when they lose money they will come back and say that trading is gambling, but if you enter the market with the right approach, usually you will be in the winning side.

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Quote from: Marvelockg on February 26, 2024, 04:57:30 AM

Today I visited a friend who is a forex trader, according to him he trades on the USD, gold and BTC and I normally don't fancy the idea of trading because it appears a bit complex for my understanding and from my little knowledge, it seems as though trading is almost same as gambling because at the end of your analysis you're not sure of the outcome of the trade since it's basically a short term adventure and the volatile nature of most traded items depict it to be uncertain with time.

My question is, isn't trading almost like gambling considering it uncertainty and also looking from the fact that he has lost a fortune out of trading within a short space of time?

Is it possible for him to easily recover his money back or is losses like that very much a part of the trading experience?

As you've mentioned you found trading a bit complex and if you are finding it complex means you don't acknowledge everything that's the reason you are saying that isn't trading like gambling to remove this a small difference between the trading and gambling borderline you need to learn about what trading is and how works, you need to learn about market, trading terminologies, and other skills related to trading.

First of all trading without knowledge is gambling and on the ending node I would like to say we've already discussed such gambling vs trading topics many may times and there's no room to discuss the entire topic against for that OP you should consider searching those topics and making efforts to learn about your queries from those topics and discussions.

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