Topic: Issue with bitaddress.org 20BTC reward for assistance (Read 1474 times)

I am about to start messing with some physical coin wallets (paper wallets but qr on coin with seal) and I am already playing with the tech before I start adding funds and about to practice with some seals and paper types for the QR code (making custom coins and using custom seals). I am thankful for this thread to remind me to slow down when handling money and especially on these offline paper wallet generators.

There could definitely be an option for it to hold the private keys until you close the offline page and a warning that it will delete them when it is closed (with multiple confirmation boxes and a type YES box), when you're offline I don't see how this could be a security issue. There could be a warning to this when you open the program that you need to close it all the way out to secure everything.

Be sure to test the addresses before making the coins. The addresses don't always work. Saves you making a coin that was a waste of material.

Oh Ok, I misread the OP's opening post completely. My apologies to the OP for commenting and not reading throughly his opening post. It sucks to lose so much money. I hope you will manage to recover somehow and that you will stay with us, as a part of Bitcoin community.

Good luck!

I created paper wallets as relative newbie. You can bet your arse I tested them inside out with multiple dust sweeps before committing any real funds to one. Once that was done I backed them up about ten times over.

It didn't take any research to realise that the potential to send it all up in smoke was there. As with everything else in this space, you have to make your own conclusions rather than blindly following others. There's good info to be found out there but ultimately it has to be your call.

That's not how the majority operate but there are more hand holding options than ever before. The ease with which your money can disappear is very unfortunate but this is still a rather raw technology and it shouldn't be passed off as anything else right now.

I actually don't think it was too strong.  I think it was appropriate.  This board is filled with flaming know-it-alls that run their yaps without thinking of the consequences.  And people get hurt.  When I myself got into bitcoin I came here seeking knowledge and guidance.  Many people sounded wise and thoughtful, seemed to have some technical savy, had been with a while so seemed to have experience.  And no matter what scenario I pitched - it was all FUD when it came to "securing your bitcoins".  Cue the dramatic scary music.

And I honestly believe that if I had been gullible and stupid enough to listen to the vast majority of people on this board - I too would probably have a story about how I accidentally wiped out my investment.

And in regards to the stupid comment - I think you are being unfair.  Most people are, literally, stupid.  They act like sheep, and they follow whatever voice seems to be leading the most people without too much thought to it.  And I think there is a pleasant, peaceful aspect to being a sheep - but in today's world, acting like that is akin to a sheep mindlessly munching grass at the door of the slaughterhouse.  Yes - there really are wolves, and they really are trying to eat you. (The whole - sometimes you are paranoid and sometimes they really are out to get you thing really is applicable more and more in today's world.)  

So my harshness wasn't really towards the stupid sheep.... it was towards those in the "Shepherd" position in the bitcoin world - those people that are supposed to be looking out for the sheep..... aka the "experts and contributors" on this board.

also....


No they shouldn't.  And the direct correlation here is to blithely tell people without skill/experience in bitcoin to go play around with their bitcoin investment.  I can tell you now - that people that have never done this before - should NEVER be instructed to have paper wallets / private keys etc as a first go at this.  Like learning to swim, they should play in the Bitcoin Exchange Baby Pool, until they can go into deeper water.  

And the "harshness" here is in the hopes that someone just getting into bitcoin will actually pay attention, and instead of A) Doing something stupid and losing everything, or B) turning away from Bitcoin alltogether and missing an opportunity to be on the cutting edge (slowly) - that they will actually carefully dabble their toe into Bitcoin, and grab a few, through an Exchange - using an Exchange Wallet, slowly exploring hte possibilities, and educating themselves.

Because currently, I can say from 100% experience that - a novice listening to some of the "security strategy" advice given on this board is about in as much financial peril as a person who refuses to sell his stocks at the clear beginning of a market crash because his broker told him its all good, and part of a "cost averaging strategy".

But with all of that said.... if you are giving good advice, then this doesn't apply to you.

Exaggeration, but I get the point and the warning of the dangers are true. The past has shown that an exchange might run into problems and your coins will be gone. This is very simple with bitcoin, you either control the private keys or you dont. Only if you personally are in control the coins are yours, otherwise you should consider them someone elses and you have to trust them.


My personal guess is that OP either did not listen to any advice or bad advice. Whether or not there ist an ideology behind the advice is your speculation.


Most wallets do a very good job at hiding the underlying things hard to handle, e.g. the raw private keys from the user. OP decided to go out of their way to download a piece of software that removes all layers of protection other wallets offer. The software used has proper warnings in place that OP either did not read or ignore.


and




Yes, for some people it makes sense to trust someone else instead of their own ability. It is however not the communites duty to judge which kind of person someone is nor has anyone here the capacity to do so. The people that constantly give good advice like e.g. DannyHamilton tend to advice in such a way that the user has a wide varity of options and can choose what is best for them. In the end, no one here can do the decision for you we can only show you possible ways.


You sound like you have an agenda which has next to nothing to do with the issue at hand.


No. Any time someone freely makes a light and rushed decision that involves a significant amount of value (regardless whether its BTC, FIAT or another crypto currency) it is their own fault. Bitcoin teaches harsh lessons in that regard as your transaction can rarley be undone.


Mabye thats not where bitcoin is heading?


50 BTC was the mining reward when bitcoin started. I also dont think that anyone can tell how many wallets satoshis has or had, but you are probably refering to addresses. The point still stands though, test with small amounts until you feel you understand what you are doing well enough.

He was taking care of them by using a paper wallet. He just pressed the wrong button at the fatal moment. I've done it plenty of times with vital things myself but thankfully there wasn't any wealth involved.

Clipboard recovery won't help. He didn't copy the private address. He only copied the public address.

I'm sorry for your loss, but one thing is certain, you won't do that again.

Next time print out a backup before sending any coins to an address.

if what OP wants is at all possible, wouldn't it be a huge flaw in bitaddress.org coding?

i mean technically i would expect the code not to leave any sort of trade on my RAM, as OP asks, java

Children shouldn't play with knives.  They are sharp.  Should we get rid of knives?  Are knives 'broken'?

A bit strong. You make some points in between the vitriol and they are valid but its hard not to look past the vehemence.

I stand with those that submit that users can be their own bank and that it is a very desirable aspect to be in control of your own destiny. I also agree with you, that it is irresponsible to say that everyone needs to be in charge of their own money when they are not technically competent enough to use the tools to achieve it.

What I don't agree with is that people are stupid just because they can't use technical tools any more than my wife is stupid for not knowing how to ride a motorbike like me. The issue is we, as a community, are supplying the tools that enable us to use the system easily and not for others to use the system safely. From that point of view Bitcoin it is not ready for general consumption IMO, because the very bright, tech savvy people are engaged in defining what bitcoin is rather than thinking about how bitcoin is used. Until you get experienced developers who write applications - rather than programs -  engaged en-mass, this is the way it will stay.

There are signs, though. Signs that usability is being thought about. They are disparate and disjointed, but they are there and the website seems to be one of them along with USB drive keys, wallet clients and so on.

Damn man, that's a lot of coins and a lot of money. What I am not getting, is how this person got a hold of so many coins without knowing how to take care of them? Did some newbie just come and drop $30,000+ without knowing how to secure their investment? This is the only logical explanation.

If you have so many coins, storing them without paper wallets/Trezor or the both is just a suicide. I have much less coins and I have taken these precautions.

Oh well, people live and learn!

hmmm.. i think you lost a big amount of bitcoin there...
but.. did you try to recover it by the cache history or email?
im just thinking a possiblity to get it.
but maybe theres still a solution for it. dont lose hope yet...

And I would like to add, one that uses multi-signature wallets.
You can never be too sure.
We have seen "haircuts" lately by well established banks in their area.
So consider all third party the same way as a bank.
They sure operate the same way with KYC and so on.

What OS are you using? Have you rebooted since you created these addresses? I am now experimenting with the offline method to generate bitcoin addresses from a saved version of that webpage, to see if it cache

the addresses, but I am unsuccessfull sofar.

I am also looking for something to do a RAM dump, if that might be possible. If you have not rebooted... don't. There might be someone out there, that can help you retrieve something from cache memory.

About 99% sure it leaves no trace or log, and just display addresses after it's generated.   

That's not a flaw in "bitcoin", that's a flaw in the human race.

There will always be people in the world that give bad advice on any topic.  There will also always be people in the world that are foolish enough to take bad advice without considering the consequences.

In reality, maintaining control of your private keys is a perfectly valid choice for many people, and trusting someone else with control of the private keys can occasionally be the better choice for others.

However, I'd suggest that if you need to trust someone else with your private keys, then you'll want to make sure that you choose a business that is well regulated, audited, and insured.

Around 138 coins according to the OP.
(check the reddit post)

Is it a true story? Sending maybe more than 100BTC without saving the private key? 

I do feel for the OP.  But this points out a MAJOR flaw in bitcoin..... the fact that it's leading supporters / proponents / educators are currently a merry band of inbred idiots.  Here's why I say this....

All over this site, I see people screaming in fear about the dangers of not using exchanges to hold your Bitcoin.  If you don't hold your private keys, you don't really have your bitcoin.  So here you have this schmuck that goes out and dumps a bunch of bitcoin into a situation that he really has no discipline / technological maturity, or understanding, of what he is doing - and he loses his money/bitcoin.  The reason this happened is because he probably listened to the advice of a bunch of idealistic morons on here - and ultimately he got over his technological head.

Which is SO DARN IRONICALLY AMUSING - because everyone here crows about how Bitcoin is a global currency, and yet they don't have the brains or wisdom to understand that the global population is NOT technologically savy to the degree that they can be trusted not to screw up their bitcoin.

This thread really is the best advertisement in the world for why people should put their money into a "Professional Fiat Bitcoin" style Exchange (Circle, Coinbase, etc).  Because your money is not only protected better from thieves (they have much better security than the average citizen), but more importantly, loss of an individuals money is best protected from THEMSELVES - their own stupidity.

And yeah, the big money running the exchanges.... they are greedy, evil, part of the system, basically the same people that are migrating over from running the fiat banks etc etc yatta yatta yatta.

But lets be perfectly clear.... ANY TIME that a person on this board makes reccomendations to people (who they have no idea what their technological maturity level is) that they need to be in charge of their digital money..... is basically just as evil as the banksters..... because ultimately you cause innocent people to lose their hard earned money.

Ohh, and PS.... I hate bankers more than any of you, and at least I have put a few in prison, more than I guess any of you posting here can say.....  But reality and wisdom trumps paranoid teenage-minded anarchistic views any day.  Bitcoin needs to grow up if it is to enter the mainstream, become a global currency etc.

I am sorry to tell you brother, but your coins are lost forever.
I feel for you.
I too lost some coins before but it was only a small amount.