It doesn't increase purchasing power - page 3.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: shinratensei_ on October 11, 2023, 09:05:09 PM

the reason there should be interest because if loan have no interest then why giving loan in the first place, thats quite literally the motiviation as to why there are people that willing to deposit their money in the first place, because they want to grow their money out of their money, thats just how it is.
because otherwise the economy will not be as fast as it is these days, personally i dont have problem with this.
so long this economy works its fine in my perspective.

Most of the case when someone is willing to give a loan without interest is they help their close relative which is related to social terms.

But in this thread we're talking about money terms, so I have to agree with you it's impossible a stranger e.g. centralized entity want to give a loan to other people when they can use that money for the other thing which give an opportunity to earn more money.

Cookdata

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

Decreasing the volume of dollars or other fiat currencies does not increase purchasing power

Cryptocurrencies, especially memes, have a much larger supply than dollar and other fiat currencies, If a person's purchasing power is to increase, more and more dollars and other fiat currencies need to be printed, The gold supply theory and the petrodollar theory in printing dollars must be completely eliminated, Because economically, these ideas of making the society prosperous are baseless, Similarly, increasing productivity to lead to economic prosperity is also a baseless theory, Because you need capital to increase production, And to get capital you need loans, And you need more production to pay off the debt, While the population of the world and the needs of the people are not increasing in the proportion in which the production is increasing, Moreover, even if production is increased, people are not prosperous, people do not have money, In all this, banks are only in profit and people are in loss, Because we have completely ignored the fundamental theory of necessity, Which is in addition to gold and production and this is labor, While AI is going to end this too, dollars and fiat currencies should be completely independent, There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

Basically in a perfect system and ideal situation, there is difference between demand and supply, inflation and deflation and purchasing power.

To increase the purchasing power of a currency, you must make sure inflation is reduced to nearly minimum and how do you do that, you make sure that the dollar in circulation is not in excess, the supply should be slightly lower than demand, that's how you make the economy better. On the other hand, what the central banks do is the opposite of what the economy says. They inject and pump the dollar into the economy, as a result increase inflation which later reduce the purchasing power of their currencies.

Meme on the other hand are just different concept entirely, they make people believe that making a coin deflationary through burning in smart contract will reduce the supply and will increase the demand which will consequently increase the price but that's all lies and lies. It doesn't work, what more can expect from people that have 40% of the total circulation to a single entity, it will never work that way because it seems we are only deceiving each other every day with shitcoins concepts of pump and dumps.

avp2306

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Quote from: bitterguy28 on October 11, 2023, 10:39:54 PM

Quote from: Sayeds56 on October 10, 2023, 05:49:31 AM

Quote from: Ucy on October 10, 2023, 05:04:31 AM

Increasing the volume of fiat currencies for consumption of scarce goods and services would make the prices of the goods and services to go up and reduce purchasing power especially for previous holders of the Fiat currencies.

Increasing purchasing power by printing more will only end up debasing a fiat currency, asssuming it's printed for just the consumption of scarce goods and services.

Well said. Your statement is 100% correct that increasing the money supply by printing more currency can indeed lead to devaluation and reduced purchasing power. of fiat currency, and unfortunately this is what is happening globally. The best way to create wealth is based on something real like hard work or something valuable you own. It is crucial to increase agricultural and industrial production to create new job opportunities and enhance the prosperity of the population.

it has been proven in African Country and even in latin America that so much printing of Money made their country in so much dumping now , why need to increase the Paper money when the value will subside in lowest form?
it will devaluate the Fiat and what comes next? the economy will fall badly and in the end?people will suffer and not the government .

They underestimate the devaluation that might happen to their currency and think about that they can escape this that's why maybe they proceed to do that actions. If they continue to print more money and increase the volume in circulation then maybe what happen to Venezuela might gonna happen to this countries. They should learn from this country since they suffer from hyperinflation and that creates big trouble to their country if this they will not think wisely on their decision making.

Instead of think that way maybe they should find ways to increase their products yield and start to export it since maybe this could help their economy to rise up and the value of their fiat will be sustainable. Although its really hard to make this plan happen but if the leaders of that country have political will or a visionary for sure it can possibly happen. But to bad at the moment since the common scene we see is rampant corruption that's why its hard for a country to get up on worse situation it facing on.

bitterguy28

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on October 10, 2023, 05:49:31 AM

Quote from: Ucy on October 10, 2023, 05:04:31 AM

Increasing the volume of fiat currencies for consumption of scarce goods and services would make the prices of the goods and services to go up and reduce purchasing power especially for previous holders of the Fiat currencies.

Increasing purchasing power by printing more will only end up debasing a fiat currency, asssuming it's printed for just the consumption of scarce goods and services.

Well said. Your statement is 100% correct that increasing the money supply by printing more currency can indeed lead to devaluation and reduced purchasing power. of fiat currency, and unfortunately this is what is happening globally. The best way to create wealth is based on something real like hard work or something valuable you own. It is crucial to increase agricultural and industrial production to create new job opportunities and enhance the prosperity of the population.

it has been proven in African Country and even in latin America that so much printing of Money made their country in so much dumping now , why need to increase the Paper money when the value will subside in lowest form?
it will devaluate the Fiat and what comes next? the economy will fall badly and in the end?people will suffer and not the government .

shinratensei_

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Quote from: hugeblack on October 11, 2023, 03:56:31 AM

There are many economic theories that believe that interest rates, no matter how low, are harmful to the economy, and therefore loans should be 1:1, and that there is no safe and secure way to generate money from money except through risk, such as trading, trading, and other methods, but given the world we are in and its nature. In the global economic system, this does not happen. We have a system based on interest and on creating money from money and printing more for prosperity, and the person who collects the assets remains the biggest winner.

the reason there should be interest because if loan have no interest then why giving loan in the first place, thats quite literally the motiviation as to why there are people that willing to deposit their money in the first place, because they want to grow their money out of their money, thats just how it is.
because otherwise the economy will not be as fast as it is these days, personally i dont have problem with this.
so long this economy works its fine in my perspective.

taufik123

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Quote from: serjent05 on October 11, 2023, 06:52:09 PM

-snip-
No one will give a free loan even even the government charges taxes when they don't make any effort to deserve such money.

If you want to get a loan, of course, there will be commensurate collateral.
Of course, there will be no one who wants to lend money for free without any collateral that can give them trust.
The point is that a guarantee will be a benchmark for how much can be borrowed.

Quote from: serjent05 on October 11, 2023, 06:52:09 PM

I also don't know where @OP gets the theory of increasing the purchasing power by printing more money. We all know that printing more paper money will saturate the market which makes the value of the paper money plummet. This is one of the problems of the US government today, if all the dollars held by other countries is to return to the US government stash, inflation is inevitable, and the dollar devaluation will happen making the purchasing power of the US dollar weaker.

The theory of printing more and more money is a theory thought up by children who still do not understand how the financial system in this country works.
Inflation would be a cruel catastrophe if it happened, America is making it its own problem to always print dollars.

Look at Zimbabwe, they print too much money.
Zimbabwe has experienced hyperinflation of up to 231 million percent due to the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe (RBZ)
printing money regularly to fund the country's budget deficit.

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

Decreasing the volume of dollars or other fiat currencies does not increase purchasing power

Yes, you're right because what will increase the purchasing power of the dollar or other fiat coin has to do with the country's economy (inflation level), monetary policies, price of goods, and services, and of course the decrease in the fiat currency.

Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

Cryptocurrencies, especially memes, have a much larger supply than dollar and other fiat currencies, If a person's purchasing power is to increase, more and more dollars and other fiat currencies need to be printed.

No. First, you can't compare crypto with fiat currency.
The meme coin unreasonable is one of the things that affected the token price in the market.
The government printing more fiat without proper planning and control will only lead to inflation because it's not the solution or what impact people's increase in purchasing power.
The government printing of more money is a way to steal from us. They printed new fiat based on the loan requested by the trillionaire, billionaire, etc. That's why the provide the rich people tax free loan and is the reason why the government never taxed the rich people the way they ought to tax them.

panganib999

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

Decreasing the volume of dollars or other fiat currencies does not increase purchasing power

Cryptocurrencies, especially memes, have a much larger supply than dollar and other fiat currencies, If a person's purchasing power is to increase, more and more dollars and other fiat currencies need to be printed, The gold supply theory and the petrodollar theory in printing dollars must be completely eliminated, Because economically, these ideas of making the society prosperous are baseless, Similarly, increasing productivity to lead to economic prosperity is also a baseless theory, Because you need capital to increase production, And to get capital you need loans, And you need more production to pay off the debt, While the population of the world and the needs of the people are not increasing in the proportion in which the production is increasing, Moreover, even if production is increased, people are not prosperous, people do not have money, In all this, banks are only in profit and people are in loss, Because we have completely ignored the fundamental theory of necessity, Which is in addition to gold and production and this is labor, While AI is going to end this too, dollars and fiat currencies should be completely independent, There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

This is idk, borderline stupid?

You think of purchasing power as the capability of an average functioning member of the society to use money and finance himself until he dies, while in economics purchasing power is the real value of the money that you have. Having banks relinquish their requirements for accepting loan applications, as well as having the government forgive all loans and interests are going to do more harm than good. Just imagine how much inflation would skyrocket if the government just printed money for people to use and allowed every loan on everyone's name to be forgiven, might as well ditch currencies by that point and give out goods for free cause it's not going to be of much use anyway.

serjent05

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As much as I love to witness banks and centralized financing company give away money I believe @OP's thought is flawed. No one will give a free loan even even the government charges taxes when they don't make any effort to deserve such money.

I also don't know where @OP gets the theory of increasing the purchasing power by printing more money. We all know that printing more paper money will saturate the market which makes the value of the paper money plummet. This is one of the problems of the US government today, if all the dollars held by other countries is to return to the US government stash, inflation is inevitable, and the dollar devaluation will happen making the purchasing power of the US dollar weaker.

Dr.Bitcoin_Strange

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Firstly, the devaluation of dollar or fiat money is known to have been caused by excessive printed money, because if there is no excessive money in circulation, there will always be an increase in value. Scarcity of something can cause the thing to gain more value, and that's to say that excessive printed money also has a part to play in reducing the purchasing power of the money, again, inflation has its part to play.

Even if money is not excessively printed, there would still be an increase in production because the government would always have a solution to combat scarcity rather than printing more money as the best solution. Well, while considering the production process, with the current situation of how the value of some local currency has dropped, do you also consider that there are staff or employees in that company who receive salaries, and the salary they receive would still not be worth any good amount of items in the market? As such, it also becomes difficult to cope in such an economic situation. If the money gained some value, everyone would always be at an advantage.

Unbunplease

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Quote from: DVlog on October 11, 2023, 02:25:39 PM

The problem with paper cash is that there is no maximum cap on printing money. What government does is offer interest to their people so that they deposit their savings in the bank which keeps those funds out of circulation. This should increase the value but what happens is the opposite the government prints more money to pay interest when the interest should be paid from the profits government made from the loan they took from the bank.

Paper cash based monetary system can keep an economy stable by manually increasing or decreasing the money supply but government has only interest in increasing it so money gradually loses its value over time.

No one knows how much gold is actually in the vault. Maybe the real gold is only on top and the rest is fake? There is no way to verify that. It is also impossible to check how much paper money is in circulation. Therefore, it is difficult to draw conclusions about the money supply in circulation

DVlog

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Quote from: hugeblack on October 11, 2023, 03:56:31 AM

There are many economic theories that believe that interest rates, no matter how low, are harmful to the economy, and therefore loans should be 1:1, and that there is no safe and secure way to generate money from money except through risk, such as trading, trading, and other methods, but given the world we are in and its nature. In the global economic system, this does not happen. We have a system based on interest and on creating money from money and printing more for prosperity, and the person who collects the assets remains the biggest winner.

The problem with paper cash is that there is no maximum cap on printing money. What government does is offer interest to their people so that they deposit their savings in the bank which keeps those funds out of circulation. This should increase the value but what happens is the opposite the government prints more money to pay interest when the interest should be paid from the profits government made from the loan they took from the bank.

Paper cash based monetary system can keep an economy stable by manually increasing or decreasing the money supply but government has only interest in increasing it so money gradually loses its value over time.

summonerrk

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

Decreasing the volume of dollars or other fiat currencies does not increase purchasing power

Cryptocurrencies, especially memes, have a much larger supply than dollar and other fiat currencies, If a person's purchasing power is to increase, more and more dollars and other fiat currencies need to be printed, The gold supply theory and the petrodollar theory in printing dollars must be completely eliminated, Because economically, these ideas of making the society prosperous are baseless, Similarly, increasing productivity to lead to economic prosperity is also a baseless theory, Because you need capital to increase production, And to get capital you need loans, And you need more production to pay off the debt, While the population of the world and the needs of the people are not increasing in the proportion in which the production is increasing, Moreover, even if production is increased, people are not prosperous, people do not have money, In all this, banks are only in profit and people are in loss, Because we have completely ignored the fundamental theory of necessity, Which is in addition to gold and production and this is labor, While AI is going to end this too, dollars and fiat currencies should be completely independent, There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

This is a very strong side of bitcoin, its limited amount. For example, the dollar used to be backed by gold, like all serious currencies, but after it was untied from gold, and it is now not secured by anything, the value of the dollar is overestimated. The head of the US Federal Reserve, Bernanke, does not turn off the printing press and now America's strength is in dollars, although in fact it is no different from other currencies. It's just that somehow the US managed to convince the whole world that the dollar is valuable.

Therefore, I believe that every person on earth should have some percentage of bitcoin, because sooner or later at some point the dollar will depreciate bitcoin has been and always will be a valuable cryptocurrency.

so98nn

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The issuance of money without interest rate? Wow, that is going to create a hell lot of problems with the economy. The entire system runs on the interest since if we keep printing more money (out of thin air) then its gonna cripple the entire ecosystem and how the money revolves around the market. If that happens then how banks will operate? To keep the businesses running flawlessly every country has their own reserve bank for the country and they would only step in when some bank isn't operating in their norms and not generating enough revenue for the system. Plus this is also helpful in running international trades because if the value of money becomes equal everywhere then it will loose the purpose of it's existence. We would be better off with the traditional methods of exchanging the value like food for clothes, stone for cereals. I don't know from where you got that idea, but its misleading.

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Quote from: Queentoshi on October 11, 2023, 09:04:12 AM

Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

It does not make sense, because it is totally against the order of things and will ruin a lot of things if things are done that way. Issuing free money to people will not make people more prosperous or put them in a better financial position. Money given freely without conditions has a high chance to be squandered, and if people know that taking loans come without conditions and no responsibility to pay back, people will keep taking loans and using this money on unimportant things that do not have the potential to make them financially independent. Such an act will promote financial irresponsibility and a sense of entitlement.

Issuing money without payback terms may result in misuse, but what if we focus on giving education and counseling alongside this system? Governments may invest in financial literacy programs that teach individuals how to successfully manage their finances and make good investment decisions. People would be able to create enterprises and explore ideas that they are enthusiastic about.

Alpha Marine

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

It's no more a loan when it won't be repaired, is it?
Banks can't give out loans if they don't make a profit from the loan because the money they use to give out the loans are other customer's money. So how do you expect that to give out other people's money just like that?
This is not feasible at all. The banks would cease to exist.

Now if the government starts giving out money, it would only increase inflation, thereby reducing the purchasing power of people.
Don't forget that interest rate is one of the tools the government uses to fight inflation.

Decreasing the volume of dollars printed will reduce inflation thereby making the money have more value and being able to afford more stuff. This has increased the purchasing power.
Doing the opposite leads to inflation and reduces purchasing power.

Davian144

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Quote from: wajik-tempe on October 10, 2023, 11:21:05 AM

The concept of a decentralized and fixed supply, such in the case of Bitcoin, tries to alleviate difficulties such as inflation and loss of buying value. The concept of decreasing the need for loans and interest payments while also holding banks more responsible to governments is undoubtedly intriguing. The emergence of cryptocurrency has compelled us to reconsider existing banking structures.

Banks really have to use more consideration in the present and the future if they don't want to see more customers fleeing elsewhere. Because the emergence of cryptocurrency has changed the forms and ways of thinking of many people in terms of saving and using money, any bank must be able to improve and develop according to today's technology. So that their services can continue to be relied on by customers even though cryptocurrency users will continue to increase over time.

Quote from: NewRanger on October 10, 2023, 11:51:22 AM

Yes. Currently there are billions of people who can access the internet, but not everyone has access to a bank or money exchange system, but with digital keys, access to our own currency becomes very easy so that over time our dependence on banks will decrease.

If banks in the world do not keep up with developments in today's modern era, it is clear that all banks will be left behind because there will be fewer users of bank services. So the reduction in bank service users will also result in banks closing slowly, so the bank must be able to change everything by trying to keep up with technological developments that are more advanced and easier, such as those in Blockchain so that bank users can survive even though we all have also used other services besides banks.

Quote

The market continues to run, the use of cryptocurrency cannot be frozen or restricted by any entity and Blockchain makes it difficult to be cheated, it's just that currently the price drama is too much if we pay attention.

Price is not a drama, but it is a reality that can be seen through demand and supply in the market so we cannot deny it other than continuing to follow the market flow correctly and wisely and not panicking when there is a downturn. So the price issue is a very absolute issue and is not worthy of being considered a drama because it is not regulated by someone.

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Quote from: Sayeds56 on October 10, 2023, 05:49:31 AM

Quote from: Ucy on October 10, 2023, 05:04:31 AM

Increasing the volume of fiat currencies for consumption of scarce goods and services would make the prices of the goods and services to go up and reduce purchasing power especially for previous holders of the Fiat currencies.

Bitcoin has a maximum supply of 21million, and it started from less than a dollar. How many supplies of dollars has ever been printed? Billions, trillions, quadrillion etc? And note it doesn't have maximum supply and seems to depreciate in value/price.

Increasing purchasing power by printing more will only end up debasing a fiat currency, asssuming it's printed for just the consumption of scarce goods and services.

Money is not necessary for increasing production. You can use seed or products you need to run the business. Besides, the money should be printed in exchange for collateral, work or something. That's what backs it up rather than printing it out of thin air without anything backing it up. It's a gamble to lend out money to people without gurantee of repayment. Collateral is some sort of gurantee, a worker who's proven to be very productive/profitable could use that as gurantee, otherwise potential workers first learn the business well before seeking for loan, or start with a seed or male & female chickens and learn from multiplying them.

You prosper when your business/production succeeds and flourish so that you have enough for your/others needs.. Everyone needs to succeed in business to be able to exchange what they have amongst other people for what they need. It's not necessarily about money If you produce corn but need meat then give some to a meat producer in exchange for some meat. If he says "sorry, I don't need corn" or "I already have enough corn" then a service could match you with other meat producers who need corn.

Well said. Your statement is 100% correct that increasing the money supply by printing more currency can indeed lead to devaluation and reduced purchasing power. of fiat currency, and unfortunately this is what is happening globally. The best way to create wealth is based on something real like hard work or something valuable you own. It is crucial to increase agricultural and industrial production to create new job opportunities and enhance the prosperity of the population.

when the government prints money excessively and without calculation, the fiat currency of that country will become worthless and the countries of Zimbabwe and Venezuela have become clear evidence of the government's failure to control the circulation of their own country's currency, but they are countries that have strong economies and influence. Large companies are able to control the value of their currency even though they print new money continuously, for example the US and China. Developing countries will not be able to follow in the footsteps of these two countries, so what developing countries need to do to increase the purchasing power of their people is to increase employment opportunities and also provide decent education.

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Quote from: DashingAgent on October 10, 2023, 03:48:07 AM

There should be no need to repay loans or pay interest, Banks should be fully at the disposal of governments to issue loans to the people without any hindrance, Along with this, there should be no need to pledge any capital to get the loan

It does not make sense, because it is totally against the order of things and will ruin a lot of things if things are done that way. Issuing free money to people will not make people more prosperous or put them in a better financial position. Money given freely without conditions has a high chance to be squandered, and if people know that taking loans come without conditions and no responsibility to pay back, people will keep taking loans and using this money on unimportant things that do not have the potential to make them financially independent. Such an act will promote financial irresponsibility and a sense of entitlement.

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Reducing dollar volumes doesn't boost purchasing power. That's expected. The supply of cryptocurrencies, especially meme coins, regularly exceeds currency. However, printing more money doesn't necessarily improve purchasing power. That's confusing?

The gold supply and petrodollar theories have opponents, and I agree they may not solve economic success. You remarked that increasing productivity without considering necessity is troublesome. Labor underpins our economy, but AI's rise threatens it

Banking at the expense of the public? Many feel that way. Does comprehensive government control of banks solve the problem? Wouldn't that provide challenges? Interest-free loans sound enticing, but are they sustainable?

Topic: It doesn't increase purchasing power - page 3. (Read 676 times)