Topic: It is only Bitcoin and nothing else - page 5. (Read 1571 times)

I think that it is a good idea to make blanket judgements in regards to that mother of all scams, ethereum that facilitates other coins to also scam through the various easy of the creation of more and more scams on top of the already existing scam.

And, sure I don't claim to know everything that is going on with that piece of crap, but it surely is also a kind of affinity scam too. .in terms of the various rhetoric to make it appear as if POS is actually contributing to the world and saving the planet as compared to bitcoin's use of energy for POW. .which is purely nonsense and promoted in a lot of circles.. so good to call a spade a spade, and in this case good to make sure to continue to reiterate the various ways that people should not be fucking around with ethereum, even if it might pump at various points..

...and that ethereum has various other scams built upon it, including BIG companies included in dumb efforts to build upon misleading kinds of systems that are being suggested to be adding value that is competitive and/or better than bitcoin, which truly those are lies even if rich people, institutions and/or governments might be getting involved in supporting such phony baloney.. but lots of institutions and governments are used to promoting phony balloney when they are propping up various fiat systems that ongoingly involve lying to people in regards to value creation that does not really exist in the ways that it is claimed to exist...


You and everyone else would still be better off to presume any other project that includes a coin or a token (that is not bitcoin) as being a shitoin, a scam and/or something that is really not adding any value unless they can prove themselves otherwise rather than trying to give any of them any kind of benefit of the doubt in regards to their not being a shitcoin, as scam or something that is not adding any value....

Another waste of time, engergies and money  to be engaging in efforts to figure out which shit coin happens to be less shitty than the other shitcoin... a pretty dumb investment thesis to be attempting to figure out which coin is the less of the shitty coins, especially when we have bitcoin staring us in the face and a better way to go would be with a positive investment thesis in terms of investing in bitcoin and figuring out bitcoin and also putting at least 90% of your crypto value investment into bitcoin before even screwing around with other dumb shit things that have pump and dump coins that are likely not really worth wasting your time, money and/or energy with.

Hi man. I like the way you approach this subject, but I agree with JayJuanGee. I have posted some very specific arguments here (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.62891410) in regards to why I believe Ethereum to be a scam. I 'd be glad to hear your thoughts, I may learn something. Just like everyone else's too.

If someone has had a negative experience with Ethereum or if it doesn't align with their specific goals or may not fall under the required criteria, it doesn't necessarily mean they should categorically dismiss it. Just as you mentioned, Ethereum is a scam. Ethereum remains a crucial part of the cryptocurrency ecosystem and is widely used for various purposes, including investment, etc.
Categorizing Ethereum as a scam would indeed be inaccurate, given its substantial role and established reputation in the world of cryptocurrencies. It's important to assess each cryptocurrency individually, considering its unique features, use cases, and potential, rather than making blanket judgments.

I agree that not all Altcoins can be labeled as just "shitcoins" because there are Altcoins that meet the standard of profitability. So, it is common knowledge that not all Altcoins are "buckcoins" and not all "shitcoins" are Altcoins.

That is the jargon they use in luring people into their scam. If you read the whitepaper of most of them, you might likely be deceive into thinking they are building something workable. They spend so much money hiring supposed experts and contracting celebrities most times to improve the marketing. At the end of getting the funding they needed, it is usually from one excuse to  another. I remember projects claiming to be building an ecosystem for global waste collection. They packaged this so well that people actually thought they were serious. As usual, they collected the money and rolled out series of excuses before people counted their losses and moved on.

Have you noticed that most of those shitcoins promoters that claim to have a product usually list their token in exchanges even before the product is ready? If they actually planned to build a real product, they would have waited until the product is ready and in use before they list their token.


There is no better way to put it than this. Being able to make profits from altcoins is a great achievement and most times, the profit can evaporate if wisdom is not applied.

Yep.  Those are the kinds of calculations that shitcoiners do, instead of staying focused.. .but yeah, to stick to the 80/20 rule, if they had a $10k budget and choose to invest $500 into each of their chosen shitcoins, then they would ONLY be able to invest into 4 shitcoins without going over their 20% cap. .. so then they will conclude that they have to pick more coins, and then they end up having difficulties staying focused on bitcoin..

Of course another thing is that there should be some kind of conscientious due diligence in trying to figure out which shitcoins to research into and then to invest and then to watch them and to figure out various strategies in regards to each coin, including what kinds of events might trigger needs to take action, such as selling some or all of their coin.  Sure, we can suppose that it could be fun to learn about some of the various shitcoin projects and to watch them... and maybe they will figure out some kind of a system that works for them.  Perhaps?


That is part of the reason that they are not going to be able to even stick with a 80/20 rule unless they flip it, and even then it can get so tempting to reduce bitcoin further because once they go down the diluting of their investment portfolio, there are always more and more new shitcoins demanding some of that allocation.

Those who have experienced huge losses from those altcoins or shitcoins, surely they will never invest in them again to avoid another losses. But for those who are still new in the market, I still think they will still be deceive with those too good to be true altcoins. They’re actually cheap compared to bitcoin so if you invest because of greed, you will chose to invest in them and expect maximum profits.

Unfortunately, I have not been involved in any of the meme coins that did well. In my days of Ignorance, I have invested into several of those meme coins,  even some with solid marketing and huge hype yet they all failed. My experience is enough to make me conclude that they are not worth it.

I am not disputing the fact that some would have made money from meme coins, I know few that did.... I guess luck played in their favour.


I think 20% to meme coins is way too high for me. Why will I commit 20% of my investment funds to something I don't believe in.... pure low probability gambling. Even though I will not even give it a thought, I think single digit percentage of investment funds should not be bad. After all, it is believed that meme coins can easily give x100 in profits. Assuming you have $10k to invest and you decide to use 5% of that, that will be $500 investment. If you split this into five meme coins and one of them achieves x100, that will be $10k representing a profit of $9,500. This is huge.

Even though I think that 20% is too much to allow to be invested into shitcoins (10% at most into shitcoins.. but hey we can agree to disagree), it is at least some kind of a recognition that an overwhelming majority should be in bitcoin.. ...

Over the years, I have surely seen so many shitcoiners who have no bitcoin or they might have only a 10% to 20% allocation to bitcoin.. which seems completely lacking in knowledge in regards to what bitcoin is....

By the way, don't get me wrong, it is helpful for anyone to think through what are there various allocations and to consider why they allocating the amounts that they are.. including considering their timeline for various investments, so there surely could be some reasonable justifications that would allow people to conclude to take more risks .. which does end up in decisions to ONLY have smaller amounts of the crypto-investments allocated to bitcoin.. but then of course, we have our broader investment portfolio too..

At the end of 2014, after I had already been in bitcoin for a year, I had considered that the amount that I invested in bitcoin would be 10% of my overall investment portfolio, but after March 2020, I started to recommend 1-25% to be allocated to bitcoin, and of course, my own investment in bitcoin ended up being around 13.5% in late 2015, but that grew to nearly 90% as compared with my other investments in 2017 and then shrunk back to 45%-ish and then is currently around 70%.. so I am not even necessarily suggesting the necessity for any reallocations of a winning asset.. so when we consider allocations within our overall investment portfolio versus allocations within crypto (bitcoin versus shitcoins), those are two separate questions, but they still may well have real world ramifications, including that there may be a large number of folks who do not hardly have any investments besides "crypto" which is potentially problematic, but also screwing up their own concepts of how diversification should be considered and put into practice in regards to their own financial/psychological circumstances and/or their investment(gambling) goals.

That is the trouble, if you buy an altcoin then there is a chance that you will lose all your money, and if not and it goes well, then there is a chance it could crash later on as well, so it is not really a smart move to keep trying your luck way too much, you should try to avoid that. With bitcoin you know you are going to do fine, and it is not going to be terrible. I know that it is not that smart for a while, but then it is going to get better and better.

I personally hope that people can see that eventually. I think with bitcoin you are investing into something that you can see the future of, not clearly, not exact numbers, not exact date, but you know that it will go up in the future and that is more than enough to most people.

Use case? So can you tell me if there are any cryptocurrency projects that have been put into practical use yet? Or is it all just empty theories or empty promises that they often say? In my opinion, investing in altcoins is speculation. If you have made profits, you should take profits and ignore them immediately. There are no projects with practical applications or any technologies that bring benefits to society. So far, only bitcoin can be used as a means of payment and store of value, the rest are just rubbish for speculation and gambling. If you want to invest in technology, it's best to learn about real growing technology companies out there, don't believe what crypto projects say.

There have been a few meme coins that did very well in the past, but you are right that the majority of these coins didn't do well at all. I am sorry you focused heavily on these coins and not bitcoins itself. So many different projects without a specific goal where doomed from the start. During a boom period where a lot of outside capital flows into the crypto world the flaws might not have been noticed by many investors. Still, I always recommended to put 80% of our money in bitcoin and only use 20% for meme and alt coins. That 80/20 split I have seen used by many other forum users. And if you were early in the crypto markets, your returns on bitcoin should make up any meme coin losses. Also wasn't there just last week a big article that almost all NFTs are worthless now? We are living in uncertain times and investors are much more cautious with their money. I wouldn't sell all other projects, there are still chances to make a profit.

Bitcoin never offers such a thing but altcoins do especially new projects. And you are the one for those fake believers and those who think always about money and rewards.

That is the reason why we should not just look upon their promises and big rewards but we must look is the use case of the project. Of course, being developers will attract investors in order to make a profit, and one of the most effective strategies is to promise them something attractive...Those greedy individuals and lack of market experience will usually fall into the wrong investment.

Yeah and in times like this were you need 1000 + in investment to make a reasonable amount those 1000 invested in a non crypto endeavour is most likely a safer bet.

Looking for another source of profit is not being greedy, IMO.  It is just taking the possible opportunity that we can make a profit while waiting for our other investment to mature.  It is more likely using our time to maximize profit.  It is not bad if we have extra funds and have already invested in Bitcoin to look for another means of profit.  The international law does not forbid anyone to diversify and look for another source of profit, as long as we do our own research and there is a possibility to mitigate risk to its minimum, then it isn't bad to invest in other cryptocurrencies.

Investment in another cryptocurrency is not need for that cryptocurrency to survive the market, since the essence of investment is making profit, we can always cash out whenever we see profit and get out of that cryptocurrency.

As one of the thread here stated: Never marry cryptocurrency.  We must get out if the profit is realized.  Sticking for too long when the target is realized just to make our profit bigger is what I call being greedy.

I also experienced the same. Many of my coins have no development, some dropped their prices significantly, and some have been dead coins. There are few coins only that seem to have potential progress in the future. So, it is always difficult to expect secure investment on altcoins, specifically for the new altcoins. The chance of the projects to fail is always high although they have big communities, raise to the top 50 coins on CMC quickly, and become popular in a short time. In many cases, the projects only set the targets to bring the hypes, so they can collect huge money from investors as quick as possible. After they get the money, the teams/developers will tend to stop their focus on the projects. They are getting rarely to keep in touch to the community. And finally, they disappear and the tokens will be delisted on the exchanges.

Well, PumaPay is just one of the examples of the projects having the same scheme like I described above. 

This rule will likely be broken in the coming bull market. Bitcoin dominance is increasing and many altcoins are failing... this means investors are realizing that most of these altcoins are shitcoins. If this trend continues, the hyped altcoin season may never come even when Bitcoin will be soaring. Ofcourse there will be few of the altcoins that will attempt to following Bitcoin but the number is steadily reducing. FTX is out, Luna is out.... these were solid projects yet failed. Who knows the next!

I know a lot of smart guys including the founders of most of these shitcoins are already converting their bag to Bitcoin as that is the only way to have peace. Anyone hoping to go to the moon with a bag of over-hyped altcoin might actually meet his Waterloo

I still remember some of the project I invested in, and I can say the same that most of those project was turns into dust. They always promise something big like 'the next Bitcoin' or 'better than Ethereum' but none of them could deliver the promised product. This investment mostly happened on the ICO boom like 4 years ago, tho there might be some projects that actually booming, and the profit is quite satisfying, I still learned from those mistake, and now like more than 80% of my portfolio is on Bitcoin, and I barely invest in any new project.

You really know my motive for investing that well, or you believe that you have sufficiently summarized my bitcoin investment thesis and how it might have changed over the years?

I believe that I have had somewhat of a consistent bitcoin investment thesis since I got into bitcoin in 2013, yet at the same time, I have learned more and more about bitcoin since getting into bitcoin, so it is difficult to say what I did versus what I would have did or what I would do because in part I have already been in bitcoin, and fairly active in several ways over the last about 9 and 3/4 years... but I am still not sure what this has to do with me.

You challenged that anyone says ETH is a scam is ignorant.. and it seems that you were being quite hyperbolic in that statement.. whether you are correct or not might be another question.

Ever since Ethereum has come into existence it has been a kind of affinity scam in regards to bitcoin, and surely people have made money on it. but the making of money on a scam still does not seem to remove ethereum's scammy history and even including it seemingly ongoing scammy continued existence.

It would be pretty scary to be putting much if any of your value into that crap without merely feeling as if you are gambling rather than investing, even though many people (who I would suggest to be scammers, dumbasses or innocent people caught up in the nonsense.. and perhaps even pre-coiners.. a kind of temporary dumb status) actually do put value into that smoke and mirrors nonsense.


I doubt that I have ever said that, or at least you seem to be devolving into more exaggerations in terms of trying to summarize my position by attacking me rather than really attempting to think through what I might have been saying or what my position might be.

Generally speaking I would prefer to suggest that there is a presumption that anything but bitcoin is a scam.. especially if they have their own token.. or if they are building on some kind of scam that has its own token. Now if they don't have their own token and they are building on bitcoin. then that may well be another story.  I don't claim to be an expert, but I do claim to presume anything trying to act like it is similar to bitcoin or better than bitcoin and has some kind of a token to mostly be a scam, even though surely there could be some utility in terms of some of the shitcoins and even some abilities to transfer value through some of them in kinds of alternative possibilities outside of bitcoin.. so as I mentioned previously, there could be some reasons to hold some of the various shitcoins, ... maybe even up to 10% of various investment assets could be in shitcoins as compared with bitcoin, and sure there could be reasons to go beyond `10%, but I am not going to automatically presume any of that without some kind of a justification, and the burden would be on you to argue some shitcoins to have any kind of value as compared with bitcoin and/or worthy of investing into whether you are talking about the mother asshole of shitcoins (aka ethereum) or some other shticoin or shitcoin variant.


You are trying to paint me as some kind of an extremist... that sounds like bullshit.  I am completely reasonable.. ..and there are likely forum members who are both more informed than me and also more skeptical of shitcoins and the various ways that people get separated from their money (or distracted in their thoughts. or their abilities to better understand bitcoin).


You are within some kind of a reasonable group?  Are you chasing dollar profits?  How do you define profits?    The more you speak, the more lost you sound.


Again, that does not really sound exactly like what I said.. and also I have not really ever claimed that there might be ways to make profits from shitcoins.  Of course there are ways to make profits, and even moreso if you happen to be some kind of an insider who is scamming others or if you have connections with an insider who is scamming others then maybe you will get the information first to be able to pump and dumb your crap.

I would not really characterize those kinds of behaviors  as investing rather than gambling and/or pumping and dumping crap... and of course, you have the right to do whatever you would like.. but it does not sound very accurate to be describing yourself in terms of taking the high road.

The high road likely relates to mostly (if not exclusively) being in bitcoin.. rather than getting distracted too much into shitcoins, and if you happen to get into shitcoins, then hopefully you are not getting more than 10 % into shitcoins without having some kind of a compelling reason to do so that goes beyond mere gambling and/or engaging in various scams, whether you are the scammer yourself or merely following and supporting scammers while proclaiming that they are not scamming..


No one, including yours truly, is saying that you are not able to make profits from being involved in shitty projects.. but it seems quite distracting if you believe that there is some kind of systematic and/or honest way to get involved in the overwhelming majority of that crap, and if you are holding Ethereum up as your supposed virtue coin, then you really sound lost... .. and again, you are sure free to spend your time, your energies and your money however, you like, but coming into various threads and trying to suggest that you are virtuous or that you are doing good work or that anyone claiming ethereum to be a scam is ignorant likely mostly reflects upon your own ignorance and vacuousness rather than some kind of an enlightened position that you seem to be wanting to proclaim that you hold in your support and/or your involvement in shitcoins, including but not limited to ethereum.


If Satoshi did not design Bitcoin to be an investment, then why is it an investment?  You can invest time, energy and/or monetary value into bitcoin, and it seems that bitcoin has various monetary incentives built into it and that is part of the reason that it works so well, even when being attacked.  There are presumptions that are built into bitcoin that it will be attacked, and it is built to be resilient against various kinds of attacks that could take place and that have been taking place, and part of the reasons for bitcoin's resiliences has to do with monetary incentives that are outcome of it's built-in scarcity.

Various shitcoins are just imitators of bitcoin or they are trying to suck off of the bitcoin teat or to hang onto bitcoin's apron string (like bitcoin serving as a security blanket in which the various scams are allowed (or enabled) to exist because bitcoin provides the strongest security of any system (so far) known to man.

So yeah, not only does bitcoin have built in properties to change world financial systems, bitcoin is so disruptive that it ends up purifying and improving all kinds of monetary incentives and your various shitcoin involvement does not really help to bring any kind of clarity to you or anyone else why there is any value in getting involved in that crap.. even if sure you might be able to figure out some short-term angle in which you are able to eek out some short-term value until you get rug pulled.. but hey you are willing to take chances on those kinds of short-term bets, and those are your choices.  No one can rescue you from yourself, except yourself... .you have to figure out if you may well be putting too much time, energy in money into pump and dump crap when you got a pristine asset like bitcoin that is staring you right in the face.

By the way.. don't get me wrong.  I surely do not expect everyone to figure out that bitcoin is the best asset (even though it is), or that shitcoins will cease to exist, or that normies won't get distracted into investing into inferior products, because it is likely that there are going to be millions of new shitcoins in the next 100 years (maybe even in the next 5 years), and there will be many times in which the shitcoins will outperform bitcoin in the short-term.. and there is no real way of NOT seeing that value will continue to flow into bitcoin, but it may well not flow clearly or straightly.. so anyone (and everyone) is free to get distracted into investing into inferior products... and they are also free to invest into bitcoin.. so there is quite a bit of value to anyone who figures out bitcoin to be the place to be spending the overwhelming majority of their time, energies and value.. even if there might be some better short-term places that such time, energies and value could be placed... and it is up to you the extent to which you get distracted into nonsense and how much value you want to put into crap.


Yes.. the better ways of thinking about diversification tends to be across asset category types rather than within the same asset category.. .. and then within the categories, there could be some value if diversifying if the leader is not known, yet within the "crypto asset" category anyone should realize that bitcoin is the only one that really matters, so then if there are desires to diversify, then it should be into other asset categories such as property, equities, commodities (bitcoin could serve as this too), bonds and/or cash/cash equivalents.


Part of the value of the forum is that we do not need to agree, and you are free to make your various arguments and/or counter-arguments (if you have any) and also you should be making up your own mind, as well, regarding whether and how to invest into bitcoin or any other place (including into shitcoins) that you choose to spend your time, energies and value.


I doubt that any turned into shitcoins.  An overwhelming majority (if not all of them?) were already shitcoins from the beginning, but you were happy with them as long as their price was going up.


In terms of investing,  if you do not recognize bitcoin as the leader of the sector, then you likely do not understand bitcoin or the sector.

Now, if you are fucking around with pump and dump and trading, then that is a different set of skills (and or scams) and you can surely profit more in shitcoins, trading and scams than a pure bitcoin approach as long as you play your skills properly and/or you have decent and actionable information that ends up working out for you in those shorter term kinds of plays.


That comment makes no sense.  Bitcoin has not gone away.. so your elusion that some kind of a shitcoin is independent of bitcoin, then you better actually describe which one (examples) you are talking about.


You really are pumping the practicing of a shitcoin strategy. and diversification generally is across asset classes not within the same asset category..   Yeah you can diversify how you gamble too.. and hopefully people are not gambling when they choose their bitcoin allocation.. how they accumulate bitcoin, what their BTC accumulation targets might be and then how they might attempt to maintain their BTC stash once they get it up to their target level.

Although altcoins are typically depended to Bitcoin prices, it's important to include them in your portfolio. Some are worthless, but grouping them together is oversimplified.

Even though Bitcoin is well-known, its important to look past the hype and think about the possibilities of some altcoins. Putting all your eggs in one basket is risky. You may think cryptocurrencies cant be stopped when they collapse, but several have risen and kept stable independent of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is important, but market fluctuations and crashes can happen. Diversification is a practical approach for reducing risk and increasing profits. Believing there is a single bitcoin investment strategy is not really ideal.

It is true that once bitcoin drops in price, no altcoins can increase or go against bitcoin. But you are missing one thing, once the bull market appears and bitcoin increases in price, altcoins will also increase in price. But, many altcoins will thrive and increase in price much more than bitcoin. If bitcoin doubles then many altcoins will increase x10 and that is why people prefer to invest in altcoins today.

Diversification in the crypto market is meaningless if you are talking about minimizing risk because as we also mentioned above, if bitcoin goes down in price then no altcoin can go up in price and even many altcoins will disappear from the market. But when it comes to optimizing profits, as I said, altcoins will give better profits than bitcoin.