Topic: It makes no sense, but I'm holding. (Read 3623 times)

Lol...

pathetic.

"I also have a few for sale at $100."

I checked the market depth for MtGox. I was disappoint

My strat involves holding some of my coins until at least 2015, no matter what the price does.
I also have a few for sale at $100.

Don't worry, we are, it's gotta finish first, though. From my test buys, it ain't done, they are still selling into the buy orders. Whoever stole the coins isn't getting a great price on them right now because of their anxiousness to sell. It could be bots doing the rest of the work, too. There's gotta be huge speculators to drive this back up significantly, though, cause some of the big players are still selling their $1,000/day via MtGox, too. (And on Tradehill, but buyers have such a hard time moving money into Tradehill that buying on there is done mostly by those willing to do the arbitrage on behalf of all the miners selling on TH.)

Actually, the public ignores every positive trait any article describes and only listens to The_Duke's interpretation.

i have 10 bitcoins. someone sends me a stolen bitcoin. i now have 11 bitcoins in my wallet.  if i send 10 bitcoins to be cashed out at mtgox, is the stolen bitcoin part of the transfer or does it remain in my wallet?

Isnt this already the case? When you move into a government currency, how can you do it anonymously (excluding cash which is not an option at the Bitcoin exchangers)?

If you demand to move your funds to a bank account, you are revealing yourself because the bank account has your data. Also, Dwolla and similar systems require your data and also end up in a bank account anyway.

It's tax-free.

I agree!  Prices this low are not at all a value trap. Please buy hard, then hold & pray.

What you don't seem to understand is that the scenario you painted is not doom, it's in fact a large success. Even as a successful niche currency the price of one Bitcoin will be significantly higher than the current price, this is simple mathematics. If it somehow manages to find new areas which I think is possible, then the price will be in a range we haven't even seen yet.

I'd be quite happy if it manages to find a place as a successful niche currency which seems likely in my opinion, it's already a big success at that point. It's not necessary for Bitcoin to take over the world to be successful.

Pornsites and xxx-toy shops etc usually have a non-pron related name that will appear on your CC bill. So if it's so easy to talk around it, then why do you need bitcoins in the first place.


A guess. Just like your guess that it's apparently a significant number of people who are interested in that.


If you're so sure, go ahead and name a few. Because I think there's not so many. Which is one of the reasons I believe bitcoin is destined to fail.

 
I think you grossly overestimate the amount of people that really want to use something like bitcoin for betting.


I guess you missed all the articles on the net about bitcoin and how they all mention drugs and illegal activities. That is how the public opinion works.

You don't have to ramble about anything, just say you made a deposit to your e-wallet or something to make some purchases. The nerdy stuff isn't what's going to make it catch on, right?


How'd you come up with those numbers?

But seriously, I was just mentioning a few examples. I'm sure there are others. My examples weren't meant to become the end all, be all rationale.  I do think you grossly underestimate the potential application to sports betting, just for one.


I forgot how puritanical the general public is, how they chalk up all porn and drug use with freakiness and addiction.

If you think that it is going down and then back at $15, it really doesn't make any sense to hold If you sell now and buy when the price is just $0.1 lower you will make more profit.

Ok wow, you just gave a good reason for another... 0.05% of the masses. All the normal people just watch porn together with their partner and don't need to hide it.
By the way, in most developed countries you can open a bank account, set it to "no paper bills, only electronic", deposit cash on it and use that account to buy a secret gift for your partner without her seeing a bill.

Also, most sane women would rather see her partner buy some porn, than see a bill that shows a deposit to some weird exchange after which her partner rambles a bit about cryptocurrency, deregulation, decentralized currency and so on.


Ok, you got another 0.1% of all people. Congrats, you have now managed to sell bitcoin to 2% nerds, 0.05% freak-porn-buyers-must-hide-from-wife and 0.1% of people who want to do illegal stuff anonymously. At the same time, you have ensured that the other 97% of people want NOTHING to do with something that is only used by freak-porn-watchers, drug-addicts, gambling-addicts and illegal activities.

My god, if that is your sales pitch, bitcoin is so doomed

My point there was that it's more relevant to talk about the massive rise in price and the size of Bitcoin economy from 6 months back. Even though the price has dropped significantly from the top, the economy has not contracted in a similar way. The economy in fact is still doing well and is massively larger than 6 months ago. Any talk of the price going back to the levels of 6 months ago are absolutely ridiculous.

This is because the interest in Bitcoin has not gone down in the same ratio as the price, not even close. The price top was mostly a massive bubble but the growth of services and users is not.

I don't think it's irrelevant. Miners will change their cashout-plan based on the price, at least many do. It's hard to say how a low price will affect miners, will many just quit and sell everything regardless of negative return? Don't know.

My mining operation is basically as electricity-efficient as any miner can have so I'm the last man standing as far as mining goes. From my perspective it's smart to just hold everything. I'd rather just hold and spend coins at this point, not sell them. I'm probably not selling a single mined coin until the price goes higher.

We're also reaching the point very soon now that the miners who started a few months ago when the big boom happened are starting to have their mining rigs payed back, at least with the resale value of hardware included. This might change the cashout-plans of some miners if they happen to support Bitcoin in general.

But your *feelings* about what the price should be are? People were arguing in pretty much exactly the same way about the $10 "limit" when the price had fallen to $12-13. Good luck with your investments, you'll need it.

Regarding the mining cost it truly is irrelevant. The same number of coins will be mined no matter how many is mining. The hashing power will just scale down with the price.

Sure, the average person doesn't care about those characteristics when it's just theory.  What they need are practical reasons for why those things can be good for them. For example, it can enable them to buy things electronically that they don't want to show up on their credit card bill (e.g. porn, as well as other potentially embarrassing things), and, two, it can allow people a pseudonymous way to bet on sports (in the U.S.).  Drug purchases have been another application. Anonymous donations to certain causes has been another application. People want to be able to handle such things in cash, and bitcoin can make that happen.

How do they know the bitcoins were stolen?  If they have reports from users and can trace the keychain then it seems like decent enough evidence to freeze the accounts until ownership can be verified.  PayPal freezes accounts for a lot less.

How many allegedly stolen bitcoins are being dumped onto the market right now?  Has the selling finished or are we looking at tens of thousands still waiting to be processed?

Which laws regarding stolen goods and money laundering does MtGox have to follow, and in which jurisdiction?

As others have pointed out, MtGox has selectively released very sensitive market information.  This is unethical at best.  If what MtGox says is true, speculators should be lining up to buy en mass as soon as the sell off finishes.

This is true. But Bitcoin has possibilities that will appeal to a much bigger audience, it's just a matter of developing the services and tools further. I'm already seeing big things starting from Bitcoin ATM's, sophisticated merchant services, physical Bitcoin bills and money in QR-tags and NFC-tags etc. And from NFC-tags you can even transfer the coins back and forth.

And all of this much cheaper and much faster than the banking system, for instance. There is so much potential and so much to do. The whole thing is still so small, we haven't even reached all the nerds yet.

I'm starting to think I need to start spending more time on other forums instead of the speculation forum. The only reason I spend time here is because I think there has been excessive doomsday-talk recently which is just contributing to the mass psychology effect I already talked about.

The problem is the real bulls and Bitcoin enthusiasts don't care much about the price because it's not relevant, that's why they don't post much in this forum. This doesn't apply to anyone who has a pessimistic standpoint because the price is the only thing right now to be pessimistic about as far as Bitcoin goes. That's why the ratio of bulls and bears is a bit skewed on this particular forum.

Seems like some people are finally realizing that what nerds think is such a great idea (anonymous, unregulated, cryptocurrency) is of very little value to the other 98% of all people.