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Topic: Italian League Prediction Thread (Serie A) - page 1460. (Read 858146 times)

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September 17, 2023, 01:53:33 PM

I feel the same way regarding Napoli, Inter Milan and Juventus are performing better than Rudi Garcia squad. The cause is none other than what you mean, not being consistent in winning matches. Napoli defeat to Lazio was quite surprising, when Lazio rose from the relegation zone and secured full points at home to the defending champions. It is true that losing Spalletti had a big impact on Napoli, plus the hole left by Kim Min Jae has not been completely resolved.

The standings board illustrates everything, another fact when considering the performance of Lecce, which last season finished in 16th place, this season is better than Napoli who are defending champions. After a draw with Genoa, the UCL group phase will be a place to prove Garcia's tactical quality.

This is like an incomplete analysis in my opinion because everyone who knows what happened in the game Napoli vs. Lazio would not say that there was much that Napoli did wrong. They have played a great game and luck was against them that day. The difference between this season and last season is that they had some more game luck as well and could decide the game in their favor in the last minute or their opponent did not score but hit the post. They haven't been worse than Lazio at all. Lazio could barely breath and that game would end with 3 points for Napoli most of the time. There can't be any doubt about that, but it wasn't meant to be on that day. It's still early days and success will return for Napoli.
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September 17, 2023, 01:53:08 PM
It seems like Frosinone can't be underestimated, so far in 4 matches only Napoli can beat them. Frosinone team performance is really great. Even, today this team can beat Sassuolo with a score of 4-2 and they were automatically able to secure 3 points perfectly, Frosinone might be a tough opponent this season. Because surprisingly they were also be able to beat Atalanta and they also can hold Udinese to a draw result.

We can say that they are one of the surprise teams of this year. Actually, they do not have very talented players in their squad, but they have performed quite well in the league so far. When we look at the teams they won points with, I think they can be successful in the rest of the season.
Considering that other teams in the league have made a name for themselves for a long time, we can say that this team can also stay in the league for many years Smiley
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September 17, 2023, 01:18:04 PM
The loss of Kim Min-Jae is indeed significant, but the fact that Kvaratskhelia and Osimhen are still in the team says that they believe that Napoli can do well this season again like last year in the Champions League and compete for the Scudetto again. I think the fact that they have to defend their scudetto does not affect the players much, because everyone understands that the team jumped above their heads last season and now even if they take 2-3 place no one will consider it a failure, because before that they have not won in Serie A for decades, since Maradonna.

So I would say that the team has potential, the squad is almost entirely intact, but a scandalized coach like Garcia is not very necessary for such a team.
Napoli left 5 points behind Inter Milan on top position Serie A standing until five matches, its bad started for Napoli have loss many points in last five games and pessimistic with Napoli have ability for defending Scudetto tittle in this season. Not only losing Kim Min-Jae but also leaving by Spaletti is bigger problem for Napoli keep in the tittle race for this season. I don't really optimistic with Rudi Garcia can manage well Napoli in the top performance because he hasn't good experience when becoming Serie A team head coach. Napoli has inconsistency performance in domestic league this season, after winning over Sassuolo then loss from Lazio and get draw by Genoa. Its difficult for upcoming matches Napoli not only have focus recovery as many points in domestic league but also need consistency performance playing in Champion League will play in few days later.
I feel the same way regarding Napoli, Inter Milan and Juventus are performing better than Rudi Garcia squad. The cause is none other than what you mean, not being consistent in winning matches. Napoli defeat to Lazio was quite surprising, when Lazio rose from the relegation zone and secured full points at home to the defending champions. It is true that losing Spalletti had a big impact on Napoli, plus the hole left by Kim Min Jae has not been completely resolved.

The standings board illustrates everything, another fact when considering the performance of Lecce, which last season finished in 16th place, this season is better than Napoli who are defending champions. After a draw with Genoa, the UCL group phase will be a place to prove Garcia's tactical quality.
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September 17, 2023, 01:09:34 PM
Some watched the fierce match between Fiorentina vs Atalanta? Atalanta scored first then Fiorentina scored 2 goals in the first half, after 8 minutes of the second half starting Atalanta managed to equalize the score 2-2 but the match still continued and Fiorentina scored the 3rd goal in the 6th minute. Now let's wait what Atalanta will do less than 10 minutes the match will end, this is clearly a difficult situation for Atalanta, but no one knows that luck can come at the last minute. By the way I was late placing a bet on this match even though I was interested in Both teams to score.
I also watched the Fiorentina vs Atalanta match which just ended. And I bet on Atalanta in this match. But yeah, I lost this fight. Because Fiorentina seems like this club can maintain their good performance like last season. But Atalanta doesn't seem as strong as last season. Fiorentina won in front of their own supporters and yes, there were certainly many people there who were happy. In contrast to me, I felt a little weak when I saw the results of this match. But overall I admit that Fiorentina and Atalanta's performance in this match was quite impressive. Both clubs can show quite impressive results. And sometimes matches with lots of goals are always more entertaining for those of us who watch them. But still I still feel annoyed with this result.

Soon the Roma vs Empoli match will also take place. And I will bet on the host in this match, namely Roma. Because I think Empoli really haven't had good results this season. They continued to lose 3 times in a row and made Empoli currently at the bottom of the standings. Roma must take advantage of this match to get full points perfectly.
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September 17, 2023, 12:50:22 PM
Some watched the fierce match between Fiorentina vs Atalanta? Atalanta scored first then Fiorentina scored 2 goals in the first half, after 8 minutes of the second half starting Atalanta managed to equalize the score 2-2 but the match still continued and Fiorentina scored the 3rd goal in the 6th minute. Now let's wait what Atalanta will do less than 10 minutes the match will end, this is clearly a difficult situation for Atalanta, but no one knows that luck can come at the last minute. By the way I was late placing a bet on this match even though I was interested in Both teams to score.
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September 17, 2023, 12:49:20 PM
It seems like Frosinone can't be underestimated, so far in 4 matches only Napoli can beat them. Frosinone team performance is really great. Even, today this team can beat Sassuolo with a score of 4-2 and they were automatically able to secure 3 points perfectly, Frosinone might be a tough opponent this season. Because surprisingly they were also be able to beat Atalanta and they also can hold Udinese to a draw result.
Apart from Frosinone, I also see that Genoa is also a team that is just as good as Frosinone. It's no wonder these two clubs are ranked 1st and 2nd in Serie B. I even slightly underestimated these two clubs when they were promoted to Serie A. Genoa was able to hold Napoli to a draw and also beat Lazio. But Cagliari seems like this club can't play as well as Genoa and Frosinone. Because currently Cagliari is still in the relegation zone.

I feel like every game in Serie A this season is much more difficult to predict. But it's not much more difficult than the Premier League. An example is Napoli who must be willing to share points with Genoa. This makes me lower my hopes for Napoli even more. It looks like it won't be as good as last season.

Currently the match taking place is Fiorentina vs Atalanta. And I bet on Atalanta in this match. But now Fiorentina leads the match with a score of 3-2. And the game is almost over. So it looks like Fiorentina will win this match.
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September 17, 2023, 12:37:00 PM
The loss of Kim Min-Jae is indeed significant, but the fact that Kvaratskhelia and Osimhen are still in the team says that they believe that Napoli can do well this season again like last year in the Champions League and compete for the Scudetto again. I think the fact that they have to defend their scudetto does not affect the players much, because everyone understands that the team jumped above their heads last season and now even if they take 2-3 place no one will consider it a failure, because before that they have not won in Serie A for decades, since Maradonna.

So I would say that the team has potential, the squad is almost entirely intact, but a scandalized coach like Garcia is not very necessary for such a team.
Napoli left 5 points behind Inter Milan on top position Serie A standing until five matches, its bad started for Napoli have loss many points in last five games and pessimistic with Napoli have ability for defending Scudetto tittle in this season. Not only losing Kim Min-Jae but also leaving by Spaletti is bigger problem for Napoli keep in the tittle race for this season. I don't really optimistic with Rudi Garcia can manage well Napoli in the top performance because he hasn't good experience when becoming Serie A team head coach. Napoli has inconsistency performance in domestic league this season, after winning over Sassuolo then loss from Lazio and get draw by Genoa. Its difficult for upcoming matches Napoli not only have focus recovery as many points in domestic league but also need consistency performance playing in Champion League will play in few days later.
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September 17, 2023, 12:33:45 PM
Actually, I think that Pioli should be evaluated, he didn't change his strategy when Milan was behind by 2 goals. Rafael Leao seemed to be carrying Milan himself, the substitution of players also did not change any strategy on the field. It was surprising when Milan lost by a large goal margin, I think Pioli has to renew his strategy. I don't think the fatigue factor after international duty can be completely used as an excuse, because the 5 – 1 defeat was very unreasonable.

If it continues like this, the Della Madonnina derby will no longer be balanced in my opinion, how could it not be that in five meetings there would be no resistance at all. I have to agree with many critics that Pioli was the culprit of the defeat, because he persisted in maintaining the same strategy during the derby.
One of my local newspapers wrote a big headline on the front page of Milan Is Blue, Not Red.
The reason for fatigue was because they had just finished a break in international matches to strengthen their respective national teams, which did not have much influence on this defeat.

It makes little sense that the criticism that caused AC Milan's defeat was that Pioli didn't seem to understand a team's playing strategy when they were losing. When Pioli's team failed in the first 45 minutes, there should be changes in the second 45 minutes, but I didn't see that for AC Milan in the second half.
I think an evaluation of Pioli needs to be done for the good of AC Milan considering that it is still too early in the season.
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September 17, 2023, 12:25:29 PM
AC Milan was performing so well until now. They were able to win all that starting three matches that they have played. But in this match, they absolutely failed to do anything. Well, they managed to score one goal for themselves. But they have conceded five, which is definitely unexpected. I did not think that they were going to perform like this. I actually expected the match to be close. There was a lot of discussion about this match. There was also a lot of expectation from AC Milan. But they definitely did not live up to the expectations.
In my opinion, Inter Milan in that match played with a combination of mid block and low block. Attacking from the middle and the wings is equally good. He wasn't too hasty to grab the ball from the Milan players, but once he got the ball he immediately started a dangerous counterattack. Milan mostly relies on their left side which is filled with Theo and Leao.

Apart from that, the difference in quality between the two teams is too great, it could be said that every Inter Milan player is fighting for every position. And with the depth of Inter's current squad, they are worthy of winning the Scudetto this season because their players are already very strong.
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September 17, 2023, 12:18:59 PM
It seems like Frosinone can't be underestimated, so far in 4 matches only Napoli can beat them. Frosinone team performance is really great. Even, today this team can beat Sassuolo with a score of 4-2 and they were automatically able to secure 3 points perfectly, Frosinone might be a tough opponent this season. Because surprisingly they were also be able to beat Atalanta and they also can hold Udinese to a draw result.

Frosinone is a promoted team and also, Frosinone was the Serie B title winner last season. But indeed, with the results obtained so far in Serie A, it is clear that Frosinone cannot be underestimated at all. Because after all, from the four matches that Frosinone has played so far, in fact Frosinone got difficult opponents in Serie A. Indeed, in the initial match Frosinone played against Napoli and Frosinone lost, but Frosinone managed to get good results afterwards. Although the result is not a winning streak but still, as a promotion team but Frosinone managed to get good results when playing against strong teams in Serie A. So yes, of course with results like this then Frosinone really can't be underestimated at all, and result like this remind me of Salernitana too at that time.
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September 17, 2023, 12:17:07 PM
AC Milan was performing so well until now. They were able to win all that starting three matches that they have played. But in this match, they absolutely failed to do anything. Well, they managed to score one goal for themselves. But they have conceded five, which is definitely unexpected. I did not think that they were going to perform like this. I actually expected the match to be close. There was a lot of discussion about this match. There was also a lot of expectation from AC Milan. But they definitely did not live up to the expectations.
3 wins, and only 2 goals conceded in those 3 matches were negated by Inter Milan who scored 5 goals in this match. I thought they would be able to hold on or even equalize when they scored 1 goal in the second half to make it 2-1. But it turned out to be a consolation goal for them, because after that 3 additional goals created by INter Milan lodged in their goal to change the score to 5-1.
I honestly didn't think they would lose by that much, and even if they did I predicted that the score would be very tight, like 1-0, 2-1 or 3-2, but they really lost and were humiliated by the city club.
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September 17, 2023, 11:49:24 AM
It seems like Frosinone can't be underestimated, so far in 4 matches only Napoli can beat them. Frosinone team performance is really great. Even, today this team can beat Sassuolo with a score of 4-2 and they were automatically able to secure 3 points perfectly, Frosinone might be a tough opponent this season. Because surprisingly they were also be able to beat Atalanta and they also can hold Udinese to a draw result.
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September 17, 2023, 11:22:28 AM
~~ Snip ~~

As I predicted, AC Milan couldn't score 2 goals. Instead they lost 5 - 1 to their rivals. This is a very bad result. Because the city of Milan no longer belongs to AC Milan. Pioli seems to have no way to beat Inter Milan. Milan players were less prepared to anticipate counter attacks. Meanwhile, Inter Milan was more productive in attack and Milan's defense often made mistakes so they could beat Milan easily.
As a neutral fan and i was always seeing many interfans were mocking acmilan fans in the live chat. Acmilan likes lose its identity compared with the previous match. The quality owned by intermilan is far above compared with acmilan at this moment.
Picking the winner was very hard in this match. That's why i'd prefer to take BTTS and it's working. My bet was still safe after i thought that if intermilan would be winning with cleansheet against acmilan.
Awful performance from acmilan. Intermilanis too strong for acmilan at this moment. Pioli needs to rebuild the mentality from its players again.

Inter completely demolished AC Milan! Inter Milan proved they're a class and far above better than AC Milan. It was a standout performance from Inter, showcasing their tactical prowess under Filippo Inzaghi. AC Milan is too young on Inter, and I can't recall the last time they won against Inter. The derby was clearly dominated by Inter.
Actually, I think that Pioli should be evaluated, he didn't change his strategy when Milan was behind by 2 goals. Rafael Leao seemed to be carrying Milan himself, the substitution of players also did not change any strategy on the field. It was surprising when Milan lost by a large goal margin, I think Pioli has to renew his strategy. I don't think the fatigue factor after international duty can be completely used as an excuse, because the 5 – 1 defeat was very unreasonable.

If it continues like this, the Della Madonnina derby will no longer be balanced in my opinion, how could it not be that in five meetings there would be no resistance at all. I have to agree with many critics that Pioli was the culprit of the defeat, because he persisted in maintaining the same strategy during the derby.
legendary
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September 17, 2023, 11:09:26 AM
Well, for a team like Napoli to have players like Kvaratskhelia and Osimhen is already a great success and in general the main squad of the team remained unchanged from last season, but the appointment of Rudi Garcia as head coach is a very controversial decision. His character is complicated and he often quarreled with the players, and in a team like Napoli a lot is based on the atmosphere in the team, so initially the choice of Garcia as head coach seemed strange. It's good that they got back on track this time, but I think the season will be extremely difficult for Napoli.  
Napoli lost one of their most important players, Kim Min-Jae to Bayern Munich and it makes their defense clearly weaker. Napoli did not start this season well, won 2, lost 1 to Lazio and a draw with Genoa is a latest disappointed result from Napoli. It is their continuation of bad result after a defeat under Lazio two weeks ago.

Napoli attacking system is still good as we see how many goals they have scored but their defense affected the team performance a lot. I see Rudi Garcia is a good coach for Napoli but he must work with his midfielders and defenders to improve defense to get better results in coming matches. Napoli are weaker than the last season and they also have pressure to defend their Scudetto.


The loss of Kim Min-Jae is indeed significant, but the fact that Kvaratskhelia and Osimhen are still in the team says that they believe that Napoli can do well this season again like last year in the Champions League and compete for the Scudetto again. I think the fact that they have to defend their scudetto does not affect the players much, because everyone understands that the team jumped above their heads last season and now even if they take 2-3 place no one will consider it a failure, because before that they have not won in Serie A for decades, since Maradonna.

So I would say that the team has potential, the squad is almost entirely intact, but a scandalized coach like Garcia is not very necessary for such a team.
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September 17, 2023, 11:08:18 AM

This defeat continues a bad trend for AC Milan when they meet their eternal rival, Milan has never won in five meetings. I think Inter are also very tough, having only conceded one goal so far. Inter deserves to be a Scudetto contender this season, if they can maintain their consistency in getting points.
I was sure that Inter Milan would win last night's match with Acmilan and didn't think that Intermilan would embarrass Acmilan with a score of 5 - 1, it looks sad, because I think Inzaghi knows how to organize his players to be able to win this match, this derby meeting went very well. It was interesting so I watched this until the end of the match. With the painful defeat, Ac Milan had to evaluate this to improve their way of playing so they could become Intermilan's competitors for the title this season.


Acmilan's defeat made Juventus move up to second place in the standings, I think Juventus and Acmilan will be the clubs that will compete for the title this season, while Napoli only got a draw and that's not good, it seems they forgot how to play like last season and It is true that Spalletti's departure also had a bad effect on Napoli.
Inter Milan's match with AC Milan is actually a lot of people who are sure that Inter will dominate the match, but yesterday many were hesitant to bet because these two clubs actually have the same depth of performance, it just that Inter has the right strategy to break into Milan goal, while Milan is from the same formation. used is not equivalent to Inter and we can see that actually in terms of formation it is not balanced because Inter uses an attacking and defensive formation while Milan looks more like they are attacking without a strong defense.
If only yesterday's match the two clubs had used the same formation, it is possible that the final result would not have been so embarrassing for Milan, but in any case, Inter is indeed very strong.
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September 17, 2023, 11:03:39 AM
As a neutral fan and i was always seeing many interfans were mocking acmilan fans in the live chat. Acmilan likes lose its identity compared with the previous match. The quality owned by intermilan is far above compared with acmilan at this moment.
Picking the winner was very hard in this match. That's why i'd prefer to take BTTS and it's working. My bet was still safe after i thought that if intermilan would be winning with cleansheet against acmilan.
Awful performance from acmilan. Intermilanis too strong for acmilan at this moment. Pioli needs to rebuild the mentality from its players again.
BTTS might be the best option in such complicated situations until you see the horrible performance of Ac Milan.. Inter Milan in the other hand is doing pretty well so far although don't having Lukaku with them. It is a prove that they don't need him and they made the best choice to drop him after his discussion with Juventus.
There is two matches running right now, Monza 1 - 1 Lecce and Frosinone 0 - 2 Sassuolo. The next two matches are more interesting involving Atalanta and Roma

About Milan at this moment even though Milan lost badly by Inter but I believe, Milan still has a chance to be able to get good results in the next match. Also, I don't care about Milan defeat by Inter in that match derby, because if Milan can still compete well in the top four in Serie A standings, then at least Milan still has a good performance as well for this season. But indeed, with Milan defeat by Inter then of course it should be used as a big lesson for Milan, because Milan is still quite weak for such a derby match.

AC Milan was performing so well until now. They were able to win all that starting three matches that they have played. But in this match, they absolutely failed to do anything. Well, they managed to score one goal for themselves. But they have conceded five, which is definitely unexpected. I did not think that they were going to perform like this. I actually expected the match to be close. There was a lot of discussion about this match. There was also a lot of expectation from AC Milan. But they definitely did not live up to the expectations.
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September 17, 2023, 10:18:27 AM
Awful performance from acmilan. Intermilanis too strong for acmilan at this moment. Pioli needs to rebuild the mentality from its players again.


Milan players have a good mentality, but in my opinion, Pioli doesn't have a Plan B, AC Milan's attack pattern seems to be the same in every match. When the main strategy instructed to the players does not work, there is no backup plan to break to score a goal, or making line by line more better. Thiaw performed so badly in this derby match and Pioli was too late to realize this.
Inter completely demolished AC Milan! Inter Milan proved they're a class and far above better than AC Milan. It was a standout performance from Inter, showcasing their tactical prowess under Filippo Inzaghi. AC Milan is too young on Inter, and I can't recall the last time they won against Inter. The derby was clearly dominated by Inter.
.

Bruh, Filippo Inzaghi is not Inter Milan coach, but Simone Inzaghi  Grin
Despite being more successful as a player than Simone Inzaghi, Filippo Inzaghi has so far lost in tactics and strategy as a coach to his brother.
legendary
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September 17, 2023, 10:14:35 AM
Already 3 red cards in Serie A today , did someone took the great odds on this ? Because lately , the odds on taking a red card during a game are pretty huge ~6.

With 2 more games left today , there is a slight possibility for another red card to appear during Fiorentina - Atalanta , as both teams kinda hate each other.  Grin
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September 17, 2023, 10:13:14 AM
Napoli will struggle to defend their Scudetto but I think it's too soon to say Inter Milan will take it over from Napoli. AC Milan and Juventus are other competitors can do this too.
I agree with you that it is too early to talk about who will win the Scudetto title because the Italian league has only been running for 4 matches. Indeed, so far Inter Milan is at the top of the standings having earned 12 points from the 4 matches they have played and have never experienced defeat and have only conceded 1 goal. So, the real competitive map will be seen after the second half of this season, whether Inter Milan will be able to maintain its current performance to win the title or whether Juventus or AC Milan will become champions at the end of the season. So far only Inter Milan, Juventus and Lecce have not tasted defeat.
I've said this before, that defending a title is more difficult than winning a title, because the pressure of defending a title is much heavier than winning a title.
After all, it is true that this is only in week 4 towards week 5, we have not been able to see exactly what kind of competition map, maybe we will really see the competition that is more illustrated in the standings at the latest at the half of the season. If previously there were clubs that could not provide tough competition because of the problems they faced, this season they could return like Juventus, for example, who will again enliven the competition at the top, precisely for the race for champions.



~Snip~
Unexpectedly, Genoa was able to suppress Napoli and Genoa's 2 goal lead suggested that Napoli would not be able to catch up. But the mentality of last season's Scudetto champions cannot be underestimated and Napoli managed to equalize in a dramatic minute. We cannot underestimate Genoa because after all they beat Lazio and when facing stronger opponents they performed very well. Both teams share one point and at least that is better than not getting anything at all.
Despite playing under pressure from Napoli from the early minutes, Genoa was able to provide fierce resistance to last season's Scudetto winners. Genoa took the lead in the match after Mattia Bani and Mateo Retegui scored goals, after winning 2-0 over their visitors, Genoa managed to frustrate Napoli's players with their solid defensive football. Finally Napoli managed to recover 15 minutes before the end of the match, Napoli managed to score two goals which made the match end with a score of 2-2.

It is increasingly difficult for Napoli to win after getting two wins since the season started, last week they were humiliated by Lazio at their headquarters, now they have to share points with Genoa. Napoli are increasingly falling behind Inter who lead the standings, seven points from four matches is not a good achievement for a team that won the Scudetto last season.
They are still struggling at the start of the season, and that's normal because they are also working with a new coach. I don't mean to say that the current coach is not better than their previous coach, but the strong confidence that the previous coach had built up so that when they are under the direction of the new coach it brings up some doubts. That's normal in football, because our expectations of Napoli are already formed and last season will be a parameter for us to judge their game.
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September 17, 2023, 10:05:30 AM
It doesn't matter about the bad record in the head to head, because if for example Milan won the scudetto then the conclusion is Milan is still better. But yes, related to this ongoing match, in fact Milan does not have a chance to be able to turn things around. But maybe, if Milan are able to make goals also at least to minimize the defeat it is still good too, if compared to Inter managed to win with clean sheets. But indeed, if we look at the statistics in this match, it seems that it is still quite difficult for Milan to be able to make goals.

As I predicted, AC Milan couldn't score 2 goals. Instead they lost 5 - 1 to their rivals. This is a very bad result. Because the city of Milan no longer belongs to AC Milan. Pioli seems to have no way to beat Inter Milan. Milan players were less prepared to anticipate counter attacks. Meanwhile, Inter Milan was more productive in attack and Milan's defense often made mistakes so they could beat Milan easily.
As a neutral fan and i was always seeing many interfans were mocking acmilan fans in the live chat. Acmilan likes lose its identity compared with the previous match. The quality owned by intermilan is far above compared with acmilan at this moment.
Picking the winner was very hard in this match. That's why i'd prefer to take BTTS and it's working. My bet was still safe after i thought that if intermilan would be winning with cleansheet against acmilan.
Awful performance from acmilan. Intermilanis too strong for acmilan at this moment. Pioli needs to rebuild the mentality from its players again.

Inter completely demolished AC Milan! Inter Milan proved they're a class and far above better than AC Milan. It was a standout performance from Inter, showcasing their tactical prowess under Filippo Inzaghi. AC Milan is too young on Inter, and I can't recall the last time they won against Inter. The derby was clearly dominated by Inter.
AC Milan is known to be a good team in football but Inter are currently performing much better which makes them stronger than AC Milan. However, neither team is weak in terms of performance but if these two teams are played against each other, it will be a very tight game and the match will be more likely to be a draw. However, since Inter are performing much better these days, they can sometimes win the match. But there will not be much gap between them
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