Topic: Italy Is Held Back by 2.6 Million People Who Have Given Up on Work (Read 241 times)

In our country due to inflation - the situation is very bad. Infact worse. Patrol prices are not in reach of anyone of us. WE are middle class and now we are in trouble. I am not sure how the poor people are affording their daily livelihood. The after COVID crisis are horrible.

In our country, the government only provides livelihood programs and employment for jobless people. They support but they don't sustain their necessities continuously so if poor people here won't work, they wouldn't survive. If a government supports those who don't want to work, they will surely just enjoy their jobless lives and would rely on the government.

sees like situation is bad everywhere. And it will worsen with every passing month. Earlier COVID and then this crisis due to oil price hikes have place the world in so much agony. People are upset but I have noticed one thing that the despite there are so many jobs seekers but they are not willing to work on little wages. No - not at all.

Covid has nothing to do with this, Italy is right now just 400 thousand jobs away from the previous peak before covid, the difference is nowhere near the 2.6 million quoted.
Instead, it's a thing that's spread in southern and eastern countries, a lower labor force participation compared to others, for example, Italy has an employment rate of nearly 60% now, Germany has 76.9%, and the Netherlands has a huge 81%, it's just how things have always been. Far more people working on the black market, far more undeclared revenues, and unfortunately a different mentality with the young generation from country to country.

Also, despite the alarmist headline, things are turning for the better, and the statistics are far better than before the last crisis hit and not just for Italy but for the whole of Europe.


Don't know the reason, but it's an Italian thing, that doesn't quite resemble anything else in the western parts of Europe



13 million to 9.5 million, a huge discrepancy compared to the rest.

I remembered that one of the reasons (in addition to the above) could be remittances from abroad, because many have children who live in the west and north of the EU and send money regularly to their parents. Also, tourism is an important part of the Italian economy, and those who work only a few months in a year when the peak season earns enough to do nothing for the rest of the year.

What is certain is that these people live off something, unless they have learned to survive only on air and water...

I went on a tourist trip to Italy and went to the branch of the local bank (to exchange cash dollars for euros).  

I was very surprised that only men work in the bank - Italians.  I didn't see the girls.  In my country, the bank branches are predominantly women.  In Italian buses, the conductors are also men.  Also, men sit at the checkouts in grocery supermarkets.  In my country this work is done predominantly by women.  
I got the impression that only men work in Italy, and women do housework.

What are the reasons for this situation?

Perhaps these are features of the national mentality, perhaps Italy is in a very difficult economic situation.  

Perhaps the warm climate and beautiful landscapes do not stimulate Italian businessmen to actively develop a variety of small and medium-sized businesses and create new jobs (unlike the harsh Germans, Swiss, Norwegians, Swedes, Finns and Danes who are not very lucky with the climate).  

There can be many reasons.

Nope.. the calculation is a bit complex. There is a surcharge over normal income tax rates and the highest bracket is 43% (if we include the surcharge). And regarding the 30% slab, anyone who earn above $13,000 per year need to pay their taxes at this rate. And with every passing year, the government is making it more and more harder for the 1.5% people who pays the tax. Now EPF is taxable beyond $3,000 per year, and long term capital gains on equities and mutual funds are taxable as well. We are very close to the breaking point.

Maybe, the situation will change once these people are bored of their lives just by taking those grants.
At some point, they would want to buy something that grants alone can't afford.
So they will be pushed to find a good job to attain what they want to acquire.
I am being optimistic that sooner or later, the sentiments will change.
Once the government and these businesses understood the needs of their employers, they may alter their compensation benefits.

I dont see any country which would provide all the needs or necessities of a certain person who doesnt have a job and able to survive on daily living? Sounds impossible because you would really need to work for you to

live unless if you do have some properties came from inheritance or investment or businesses which you could able to sustain yourself then its possible but if you are someone who doesnt have any assets or something

like that then you would really be needing to work for you to live.Even where you do live neither on a rich or poor country, where job is really that needed.

Those living on this country enjoys a good grants even if you are not working? In my country you can’t expect here and whether you like it or not, you have to keep looking for the job or else you will starve to death. I wonder what’s the real situation there for the workers, since if there’s a job available for them what’s their main reason for quitting. The government should implement a more strict policy that benefits the companies and the workers, if those job don’t have legal contract then it should be addressed by the government, that can be consider as an abuse to the workers, and that workers needs the protection from the government.

Something "about" similar is going on in my nation as well, and as far as I know minimum wage workers in USA as well. The minimum wage is so small that, there are people who know that they will not be paid the amount they deserve, and even the amount they can survive. If the poverty line is 600 dollars a month in a nation, and you offer them let's say 250 dollars, then do not expect those people to work.

Hence, there are a ton of people who are not even seeking jobs anymore, they are getting unemployment checks which forces them to go check a job, and that ended up with them not getting paid and they keep on collecting the welfare instead. Business' need to offer more in order for people to go back to work.

In italy we've a serious problem with grants. Like UK, if people takes it, they aren't incentived to find a job. Also we've another problem, I'm Italian and I can explain to you better:

- Many people accepts grants and doesn't go to find a new job.

- Many entrepeneur offers work without any legal contract for a lower fee (between 500-800 €, and this are really poor income for a person at the end of the month)

- Government doesn't do nothing to incentive the open of new industry sector.

-There are a lot of problems happening in Italy to be honest, there are few things one have to understand, the laws for workers are not good and that's why most of them are choosing to stay at home, there is also a lot of problems for them happening, therefore at the end of the day what the government would do is to give these jobs to foreigners and they are definitely seeing influx from Ukraine so they are going to reform the laws to keep the economy going, I understand that this might be a 'maybe' but anything can happen.
-Some people might have luxury of picking but some might not, it's not a one way street. Lets see how it goes.

I'm actually a bit puzzled by the figures shown in the OP. It's a huge portion of the labor force right there that could actually make a lot of change to the economy. It must be alarming when the majority of the available labor force are not seeking jobs. That's a lot of productivity lost.

On other hand, however, does this mean that they don't need jobs? Does this signify prosperity? Does this really mean financial freedom? Or is this a kind of a rising pre-modern mindset which prefers unproductivity over tiring or boring or bland jobs? It's something like, "I'd rather be unemployed than be of service 40 hours a week to a profit-oriented company."

Personally, I've noticed that there is indeed this kind of mindset. I myself would rather be idle than be working aimlessly 10 hours a day on a minimum salary in a toxic workplace with an equally toxic boss and workmates.

But for somebody to be able to take this luxurious stand, it must mean that one can eat three times a day even if unemployed. Should the government, then, be happy that her people have reached this level or be worried that the economy might end up unsupported?

It all depends on how strong the gray economy is and how much are the social benefits and various benefits for those who are unemployed. Many formally unemployed people work without being registered because they earn more, and some are stimulated not to work with quite generous benefits, which can amount to 70-80% of the average salary. Now imagine someone working without being in the system and at the same time receiving unemployment benefits - taxes and pensions are not something these people care about.

As for the Balkans, countries like Croatia face a large labor shortage in general, especially during the tourist season as more than 300 000 people emigrate to the west EU in the last 10 years - while this gap is being filled by people from BiH and Serbia who come mainly as workers in construction and tourism.

From one example cited in the article, it can be said that people lost their jobs during a pandemic at the age of 50 have the biggest problems mostly because they can't find a similar job they did before, and the idea of retraining is not something they gladly accept.

That’s actually an amazing idea, also former customers could be the suited for this, since they used services/ products themselves.

 
Idk if wages in Germany are really higher than in Uk/ nordics. Work/life balance in Germany is really good(but also depends on the sector, low paying jobs can be terrible and non natives often get exploited, because they don’t know that the law protects them), but i see many Eastern Europeans take illegal contracts with no protection, where they then work for 12 hours a day and not enough pay. 


Definitely, i would consider going back to southern europe, if the conditions were similar to the north, its just way worse to build something under these weak conditions. Imagine starting a company now and depending on what you’re selling, it would be hard to just rely on a souther european market, because the purchasing power is way lower there. Which makes it harder to build high quality products and sell them there. You will be always reliant on a foreign market with more purchasing power at the moment. So the company could just move to a foreign market directly instead of settling in southern europe, it would be way more efficient. I think something like this is more of a project for people like me, that wanna see their country thrive, instead of a smart business decision. It’s hard for the south to catch up, when at the same time you will have the state working against you, when trying to improve the situation.

This might be because the types of jobs the people want are not available. After the Covid-19 people discovered that they can actually work from home. One of such avenue is provided by Bitcoin and other online jobs. But when government makes policies that affect these avenues negatively it discourages the people from working. People not seeking employment might also be caused by over-reliance on government for subsidies and unemployment grants or benefits. This can actually lead to laziness among the citizen.


Yes a change of mindset not just for the citizens but the government. They must understand that most of their policies are obsolete and cannot produce the needed result. Favorable Bitcoin policies might not be the total solution to their problems but it can be a part of it.


The conventional or normal school learning programmes have become obsolete and outdated. These lessons were tailored to produce job seekers that rely on government. The world has moved passed that stage. People want to control their live and career. This is the era of idea and innovation. Hence the Italian educational system must be overhauled and a new educational policy should be enacted. The educational curriculum should be tailored to suit the ever dynamic world economic system.
 

The labor market is ever dynamic. the work force must also change. People can be encouraged to work only when the right kind of job is provided. When government fail to provide highly needed and make policies that scare away investors in such areas people would not be motivated to work in available areas. The best and brightest emigrants out of Italy might not be doctors because there are still hospitals. They might not also be lawyers, nurses or construction workers because their jobs are still available. The people leaving are Bitcoiners and other innovators because of government harsh policies.


Women tend to be chocked-up with family responsibilities and childraising tasks immediately they get married. But that’s not a good excuse for making them unemployed. The problem is that the kind of job available doesn’t suit their current conditions. Online employment opportunities should be the target of the government and Bitcoin can also help.

Yep this is exactly my point. If companies want workers, they need to be more proactive in hiring and participating in areas of society where they'll find those workers..

I know of places like hobby shops (eg book stores) and pubs that have often asked their more regular customers if they'd like an interview/job with them. I think there are equally a lot of people that work in shops in the UK who work there because they actually enjoy what they do (eg seeing new people every day and having interactions with them) - I use cashiers as an example because they're probably one of the lowest paid jobs everywhere.


I heard of a stereotype from Eastern Europeans that Germany is where you go if you want a lot of money but want to continuously work and the UK/nordics are where you go if you want a good amount of money but a stronger work life balance. I wonder if this would actually be undone by improving the living and working conditions in Eastern and Southern Europe.


The cap was brought in by the current government after a few controversies after there wasn't a cap.

I think the cap pushes everything else higher and you might want to decide whether you think that's worthwhile or not... House prices, rent and groceries are kept high as a result and there might be a big impact in stopping some of these from happening. £13-20k is enough to live off, it's not enough to save off though imo and you won't claim anywhere near that if you already have a good amount of savings too so most of that money is being put straight back into the economy in some way.

I think it’s also about, that in Southern European countries the state established a framework that just works against the working individual and favors the corrupt and well connected.

You have a combination of broken economic incentives, weak property rights(which makes it hard to build companies etc., the state can just take your belongings without real justice systems), low mobility of the population(good luck moving around Italy when you’re poor, the highway tolls are huge), educated population moving to other places like Germany, and the list goes on.

While in Northern European countries the state tries to enable the individual to do better. Free university, high mobility of the population, strong property rights, strong minimum wages, better economic incentives, the state protects their industries instead of working against them. Northern Europe is for sure no paradise, but much better in this regard.

And the result of that is that the people in the south stop trying or move to other places like Germany and thrive there.

In the statistic i would also take into account that Italy made vaccination mandatory for workers over 50 years old, otherwise they can’t show up to their workplace. It’s a nice example of a state working against the individual, and destroying their own economy in the process. Even tho i think they took it back now, but depending on how much covid tests cost, it could also be that people can’t afford to go to work.

Idk which of these laws are still into effect, because they change every 5 minutes, but they definitely influenced the statistic.

Exactly. It may not be the best for the country's economy, but as an individual, I'd love to have the (financial) freedom to only do what I really want.

I checked the rates: only 5 to 30% income tax? That's less than even the lowest tax bracket we have!