It's about time to start rewarding full nodes - page 2.

ranochigo

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2016, 01:03:57 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 22, 2016, 12:40:33 AM

Bullshit. Most full nodes should be run at home as wallets and its perfectly fine to not accept inbound connections. The important part of a node is that it verifies information. If your node on a datacenter has no wallet (as it should) for who do you verify the information?

it is not bullshit the quote alone is out of context, you should read the reddit post. I've added a line above that quote which i think helps clarify things a bit.
the argument was about helping bitcoin network or in other words contribute, and for that purpose the quote is right, you won't be contributing to anything if ....[connection and bandwidth are such and such]

As I said, even if you are not opening port 8333, you are still relaying and verifying transactions and blocks for the network.

Connection polarity doesn't matter, you will still be relaying nodes/transactions to your peers. The network will still benefit for that. You would just be connected to 8 peers to help to relay information to them. The reddit post is 3 years ago where the nodes are still plentiful. With the decreasing number of nodes, running a full node would help even if you do not open your port.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2016, 01:03:57 AM

Quote from: shorena on December 22, 2016, 12:40:33 AM

Bullshit. Most full nodes should be run at home as wallets and its perfectly fine to not accept inbound connections. The important part of a node is that it verifies information. If your node on a datacenter has no wallet (as it should) for who do you verify the information?

it is not bullshit the quote alone is out of context, you should read the reddit post.

Quote properly. The idea of "leeching" is bullshit and comes IMHO from p2p torrents which have next to nothing to do with bitcoin.

Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2016, 01:03:57 AM

I've added a line above that quote which i think helps clarify things a bit.

It does not. What is "contributing to the network" according to you that requires inbound connections?

Quote from: pooya87 on December 22, 2016, 01:03:57 AM

the argument was about helping bitcoin network or in other words contribute, and for that purpose the quote is right, you won't be contributing to anything if ....[connection and bandwidth are such and such]

pooya87

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Quote from: shorena on December 22, 2016, 12:40:33 AM

Bullshit. Most full nodes should be run at home as wallets and its perfectly fine to not accept inbound connections. The important part of a node is that it verifies information. If your node on a datacenter has no wallet (as it should) for who do you verify the information?

it is not bullshit the quote alone is out of context, you should read the reddit post. I've added a line above that quote which i think helps clarify things a bit.
the argument was about helping bitcoin network or in other words contribute, and for that purpose the quote is right, you won't be contributing to anything if ....[connection and bandwidth are such and such]

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: kokojie on December 21, 2016, 10:59:38 PM

Bitcoin currently only have around 5k full nodes, this is less than back in 2013, when we were hovering around 7k full nodes.

As the chain is getting huge, quickly. It's no longer trivial to host such big blockchain, the disk space and bandwidth expense is quite high.

10 EUR / month can get you a VPS capable of running a full node 24/7 at 99.9% uptime with >100 connections.

Quote from: kokojie on December 21, 2016, 10:59:38 PM

We will need to start discuss rewards for hosting a full node that stores the full blockchain, they add a lot of value to Bitcoin and it's unfair that they have to do it for free.

feel free to donate -> http://188.68.53.44/

The problem you have to solve first is how to distinguish a proper full node from a pruned (?) or fake one.

Quote from: ranochigo on December 21, 2016, 11:37:46 PM

-snip-
Btw, I can probably run a full node on my old computer for $10 per month in electrical costs.

Id guess a homerun node is even cheaper, considering it could run on an old laptop. CPU/RAM requirements are pretty low if its running constantly.

Quote from: pooya87 on December 21, 2016, 11:53:57 PM

-snip-

Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1scd4z/im_running_a_full_node_and_so_should_you/cdw3lrh/

Most ordinary folks should NOT be running a full node. We need full nodes that are always on, have more than 8 connections (if you have only 8 then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution), and have a high-bandwidth connection to the Internet.

So: if you've got an extra virtual machine with enough memory in a data center, then yes, please, run a full node.

Bullshit. Most full nodes should be run at home as wallets and its perfectly fine to not accept inbound connections. The important part of a node is that it verifies information. If your node on a datacenter has no wallet (as it should) for who do you verify the information?

ranochigo

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Quote from: pooya87 on December 21, 2016, 11:53:57 PM

Quote from: ranochigo on December 21, 2016, 11:37:46 PM

~
Btw, I can probably run a full node on my old computer for $10 per month in electrical costs.

it is good to know this though:

Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1scd4z/im_running_a_full_node_and_so_should_you/cdw3lrh/

Most ordinary folks should NOT be running a full node. We need full nodes that are always on, have more than 8 connections (if you have only 8 then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution), and have a high-bandwidth connection to the Internet.

So: if you've got an extra virtual machine with enough memory in a data center, then yes, please, run a full node.

To be honest, when I first saw the statement, I was rather confused over the other statement. Ordinary folks can run full nodes even though they aren't really contributing to the network to that kind of extent. Full nodes without port 8333 open can still relay transactions, blocks and enforce the network rule.

Running a node without port 8333 open STILL helps the network since it helps by storing the blockchain and your peers can still request blocks from you. That statement isn't fully accurate and users should still try running a full node.

franky1

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incentivizing nodes just makes TX fee's rise. adding barriers of entry.
incentivizing nodes just creates sybil attacks (one person running several nodes to increase earnings)

it doesnt cost alot to run a computer. you just turn it on and leave it on.

the only people it does cost are the childish mo-fo's that run it from a cloud service because they dont want their parents finding out.

if you dont have a basic computer at home. then dont run a full node. we should not be incentivizing people to run nodes on cloud services like amazon. otherwise it begins to defeat the point of being a distributed decentralized network if the majority are all running on amazon

geofflosophy

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Segwit actually kind of does this in a way by allowing nodes to become lightning nodes as well. But good luck getting miners on board with giving up some of their fees.

pooya87

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the question is how to implement a reward system that is both good and is impossible to abuse,
and then who is going to pay that reward? an additional fee to transaction?
and then there is the problem of reaching a consensus.

Quote from: ranochigo on December 21, 2016, 11:37:46 PM

~
Btw, I can probably run a full node on my old computer for $10 per month in electrical costs.

if you want to contribute to bitcoin network not just use it as a wallet with full verification on your own it is good to know this though:

Quote from: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1scd4z/im_running_a_full_node_and_so_should_you/cdw3lrh/

Most ordinary folks should NOT be running a full node. We need full nodes that are always on, have more than 8 connections (if you have only 8 then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution), and have a high-bandwidth connection to the Internet.

So: if you've got an extra virtual machine with enough memory in a data center, then yes, please, run a full node.

ranochigo

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I would believe that the actual number is somewhat more. It is impossible for Bitnodes to locate every nodes since some nodes may have already hit their limits and Bitnodes is unable to connect to them. Bitnodes is also likely not be able to record nodes who do not enable incoming connections.

Back to the nodes question. Nodes are fairly important, I agree. They are the backbone of Bitcoin and they help to relay transactions and blocks and enforce the network rules. That being said, nodes should be as diverse as possible. Having a lot of nodes on the same ISP or datacenter would cause them to be centralised and wouldn't really help the network.

Implementing a reward system at protocol level would require a lot of work, a third party reward system such as the one 21.bitnodes.io uses to have would work better.

Btw, I can probably run a full node on my old computer for $10 per month in electrical costs.

kokojie

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Bitcoin currently only have around 5k full nodes, this is less than back in 2013, when we were hovering around 7k full nodes.

As the chain is getting huge, quickly. It's no longer trivial to host such big blockchain, the disk space and bandwidth expense is quite high.

We will need to start discuss rewards for hosting a full node that stores the full blockchain, they add a lot of value to Bitcoin and it's unfair that they have to do it for free.

Topic: It's about time to start rewarding full nodes - page 2. (Read 1278 times)